Impossible to make it to Mannshire, Also seems unbalanced at a certain point.

[LightningDrop]

So far I have been generally enjoying this game, regardless of how unforgiving its been. I know they're trying to make the difficulty part of the appeal but so far honestly this game has given me much more frustration then it has given me a feeling of accomplishment. The loot is always random and never pays off, the durability system has been absolutely devastating as I'm having to go repair everything after every quest even if I only had to deal with one or two enemies actually melee hitting me. So all the money I normally would have made is gone by the end of every mission. Selling things always makes you no money, regardless of who you sell to, using the correct vendors the only thing that makes you any money consistently is pelts. Even then you have to chase everything down unless you're the ranger class, and then the accuracy and accuracy modifications on the ranged weapons tree doesn't help whatsoever. I've put all my points into perception and every point only raises accuracy by .5% and then you don't get increasing amounts of ability points per level you always only get two, even though the difficulty to get to every new level increases by 500 experience points. while nothing that you kill increases in experience gains. So now I'm level 6, making my way to manneshire after completing my 3 quests, and every single tile I get ambushed. without fail, 3-4 goons attack me, with 1 being ranged and then there are normally 2 shield characters and 1 rogue or no rogue at all, so I can't get any farther then 6 tiles closer to manneshire on the map. To make this game more playable a lot needs to be done, I know its in beta and this isn't near the finished product but for what they have now there are a lot of things to be done to get rid of the frustration that this game induces.

[dergefata]

It's not impossible, it's just not what you're used to. Plenty of people - myself included - find it quite easy once you learn the tricks to success.

The problem is that it's not as free as maybe you were hoping it would be; there are ways to play the game wrong, and those ways will absolutely get you killed. Most modern games try to fold in design principles so that no matter how badly the player plays, the game accommodates them. Not so, here.

First, you need to kill things without taking too much damage. It's not Diablo, you can't just drink a vial of red juice and be back in action instantly. Injuries are problems, so you need not to take them. You can succeed by killing things at range, or you can succedd by killing things up close very quickly.

Second, you need to use your skills better. If you're using ranged, you need to be using Take Aim for almost every shot you take. That's how it's designed to work, and it works fine. You should probably try to pick up just one point in Geomancy, while you're at it, so you have an easy and reliable disengagement option.

Third, there's a bit of grinding. You don't need to go to Mannshire at level 6. There are unexplored areas on the map you can go check out; you could also pick up repeats of the quests you've done and get even larger rewards than the first time. Work on getting a good set of equipment and getting it all enchanted. Then, once you've done that, worry about making your way to Mannshire. Sure, you'll get ambushed, but it won't be so bad because you'll be one-shotting all the silly bandits.

The game is not impossible. It's not even mechanically hard. It's just narrow and unforgiving, presently.

[LightningDrop]

Originally posted by dergefata:

It's not impossible, it's just not what you're used to. Plenty of people - myself included - find it quite easy once you learn the tricks to success.

The problem is that it's not as free as maybe you were hoping it would be; there are ways to play the game wrong, and those ways will absolutely get you killed. Most modern games try to fold in design principles so that no matter how badly the player plays, the game accommodates them. Not so, here.

First, you need to kill things without taking too much damage. It's not Diablo, you can't just drink a vial of red juice and be back in action instantly. Injuries are problems, so you need not to take them. You can succeed by killing things at range, or you can succedd by killing things up close very quickly.

Second, you need to use your skills better. If you're using ranged, you need to be using Take Aim for almost every shot you take. That's how it's designed to work, and it works fine. You should probably try to pick up just one point in Geomancy, while you're at it, so you have an easy and reliable disengagement option.

Third, there's a bit of grinding. You don't need to go to Mannshire at level 6. There are unexplored areas on the map you can go check out; you could also pick up repeats of the quests you've done and get even larger rewards than the first time. Work on getting a good set of equipment and getting it all enchanted. Then, once you've done that, worry about making your way to Mannshire. Sure, you'll get ambushed, but it won't be so bad because you'll be one-shotting all the silly bandits.

The game is not impossible. It's not even mechanically hard. It's just narrow and unforgiving, presently.

It's not that I'm not using my skills well, I consistently use take aim before every shot, and I'm managing all my other skills as well, using headshot and piercing shot when necessary or available. I'm even saving up all my gold whenever I can for better equipment, but even with cycling through the merchants items I'm not finding any more upgrades, I haven't seen a single cloak with protection and even with about 14 protection around the board on my other items and enchanted rings and necklace, its difficult when every tile has 4 ambushers, even if I kill 2 of them before the other 2 get to me. As a ranged that also uses two daggers that are also enchanted for my melee needs its not easy currently to make it happen. I don't really want to have to grind my way to levels higher then this because it means that my character isn't progressing as fast as they're trying to design the game to go, if I'm not meant to be strong enough after 3 quests to go to mannshire then they shouldn't make that the next main story line goal, or it shouldn't be 14 tiles away if you don't go diagonally. I don't always mind the difficulty because sometimes its fun, but this game seems to make it so that the grind stays as abysmal as possible, without you ever gaining anything extra. the mobs all still give the same exp, and it doesn't show you a way to gain exp at a better rate. even at level 6 with me doing quests you can only really manage to do average difficulty ones, with my inventory full of healing items doing the crypt alone is impossible. not due to the small mobs on the way in, but after 3 levels of grinding through 10 mobs or more per floor, I'm set against a semi ranged semi melee boss that will finish my 100 hp bar in 4 hits, and has more hp then I can take out in the amount of time it takes him to close the gap. Maybe I do need more practice, but the game really doesn't ramp up, it stays the same slow slow grind for every level, the gold returns are low and prices on everything stay just as high. its crazy. not a bad game, just still seems imbalanced.

[Thrax]

The game lacks a large degree of quality of life issues, and also lacks the depth that tend to offset those issues.

Mannshire is easy to get to once you know what you are doing, easy as in a chore that just takes time to get down. Unfortunately you are encouraged to pick up as much junk as possible, and constantly travel due to inventory size and general expenditure. But you also need to keep an over estimated inventory of supplies or have a really good feel for how much to bring.

I am sure new content will help fix the issue, but that's what I am waiting for before I slog out again.

[Hobo_King_Carpenter]

Here's how i basically managed to get through the "early game" :

- Ignore the first quest for at least 2 or 3 hours. Do NOT take any Jobs, you are Underwhelmingly equipped at the start and you'll only lose reputation with the town or die over and over trying to fulfill contracts.

- Get some magic (either pyro or geo) so you have an Actually GOOD range attack since Bows are worthless. Pyro has a limited range but deals a little more damage and can cause burn. Geo offers a buff, and can be used to chain stun enemies if you managed to knock them back into stuff.

- Hunt animals and sell the furs, Over and Over and Over again. Build up your Gear as much as you can until you hit at least 4 - 5 protection total. DoN,t forget to always keep some money for food.

- Attributes are mostly worthless, your character's strength is basically 85 % gear, 15 % skills.

- If you feel ballsy, try to reach a "Field" square on the map. The Game usually puts Osbrook int he middle of the woods, and those tiles are Breoken by how hard they are. The ennemy spawns are overpowered for a level 1.
Fields RARELY see ennemies spawning int hem, dont have as many trees obstructing your Line of Sight, and usually have tons of Rabbits dropping pelts that you can easily sell for 18 gold each. Farm there if you can.

After that, you can try to take on some of the low level dungeons on the map. They will show you what kind of challenge each dungeon has when hovering over that map square.

[Yosuf]

To go to Mannshire avoid the roads, ambushes happen a lot more there. Take the shortest path that isn't a road.

Also, if you are lucky, there will be points of interest in the way, get out of your way to reach one to save.

The ranged skills are good, you can shoot very far away, try to use that in your adventage. The only weakness are the ambushes, and like i said, you can avoid most of them by avoiding the roads.

[Mimung]

Travel by Fields and avoid roads to avoid ambushes.
Else there are Guides on the Game already maybe read up on them chances are u might find a thing or two that helps you.

[N20 Games]

The encounter system is not well balanced at the moment. The fact that bears and ambushes spawn in sectors adjacent to the first town (even for level 1 characters) is a sign of this. I took my first character (using maces and shields) to level 19 and then started a dagger character. When I started the new character, that's when I noticed that the encounter system needs a TON of balancing.

Encounters should be dangerous and they should drain resources a bit at a time. In this game, every encounter can easily kill you, which means you often end up "gaming" the system by retreating into sectors to separate enemies. It ends up feeling like you are playing against the game mechanisms and not the actual enemies. It's not organic at all and it very much breaks much of the potential immersion.

So while I do agree with you that the encounters are currently too tough (and can be frustrating) at low levels, once you grind out the XP and gold for better gear, the game becomes easier and more fun. Actually it eventually becomes too easy but only because the current content isn't yet implemented or scaled for high level characters.

Right now, with my new character,I am still doing the "grind out a couple of kills, run back to the inn and sleep, do a quest, run home and sleep, kill some bandits, run home and sleep" thing. it feels very much like I am in a game, playing against the code, and less like I am exploring a real, organic world. But... I think this will improve as the game develops. Don't give up on it. I really love it and its potential.

[Mimung]

Originally posted by TheBlafnard:

The encounter system is not well balanced at the moment. The fact that bears and ambushes spawn in sectors adjacent to the first town (even for level 1 characters) is a sign of this. I took my first character (using maces and shields) to level 19 and then started a dagger character. When I started the new character, that's when I noticed that the encounter system needs a TON of balancing.

Encounters should be dangerous and they should drain resources a bit at a time. In this game, every encounter can easily kill you, which means you often end up "gaming" the system by retreating into sectors to separate enemies. It ends up feeling like you are playing against the game mechanisms and not the actual enemies. It's not organic at all and it very much breaks much of the potential immersion.

So while I do agree with you that the encounters are currently too tough (and can be frustrating) at low levels, once you grind out the XP and gold for better gear, the game becomes easier and more fun. Actually it eventually becomes too easy but only because the current content isn't yet implemented or scaled for high level characters.

Right now, with my new character,I am still doing the "grind out a couple of kills, run back to the inn and sleep, do a quest, run home and sleep, kill some bandits, run home and sleep" thing. it feels very much like I am in a game, playing against the code, and less like I am exploring a real, organic world. But... I think this will improve as the game develops. Don't give up on it. I really love it and its potential.

nah man. nah.

this game works with the gameplay layer of being able to evaluate risks of engagement and avoiding certain engagments in the first place by player skill and xp.

it wont tablespoon feed you mobs you can easily kill in a stream of fake difficulty increases like other games do it.

just because other games do it, it doesnt mean its law.

there are e.g. very popular mods for Skyrim namely Requiem that disables the spoon-feeding lvl scaling of the enemys.
also ToME or ADOM: when you go to the wrong place and fight the wrong people: you will die.

[Ilyich]

I got to Mannshire at level 6 without any problem whatsoever playing as bowman killing bears on the way right and left)) Dealt with ambushes of three to four goons with wardogs at night. Did an "high" danger dungeon at level 6 too. I never died in this game once. What am I doing wrong? Game is really easy once you know what you are doing and learn how to kite enemies. (Hint: deadly trick dagger skill and bow skill that lets you jump two spaces away from the enemy are VERY essential). Also you should invest in dodge heavily.

[Dr. August]

I went sword and board, got the two passives in sword and put 4 points into shields for reduced cooldowns and the shield bash counter on block. Think most of my stats went into strength and even more into endurance.
I saved up to repair that unique armor piece you get as that knight lady...Anna is it?
Side note, take off and store that armor until you have enough to repair it as it just gets more and more expensive the more damaged it gets.
When I made the run to the other town I was level 6 or 7, had 1-2 protection on all equipment except that chest piece which was a 5. Got a better sword and a heater shield from drops.
Pretty much battled my whole way there. Was able to handle two bandits at a time without taking much damage by that point. Wolves still hit really hard but they died in 3 hits give or take.

[Tzuede]

Originally posted by LightningDrop:

So far I have been generally enjoying this game, "except" repair everything, no money, there are a lot of things to be done to get rid of the frustration that this game induces.

Same.

It's not a Rogue Like. It is a Rogue. One step at a time and look for the messages popping up.

You can't avoid ambushes. At level 10 I will get 5 bandits on the road.

People who say at lvl 6 "killing bears" aren't saying they are using 30 arrows, because beers have 85% bleed resist.

Go shoe/boot less, scrn shot and keep map open in paint, count squares travel through fields, lure one bandit at a time.

Biggest tip don't engage in melee directly, if you can help it. Stick to gear with Negative noise. Watch the bottom left where the messages pop up. Middle mouse button to move around and see what you've spotted.

Good "reputation" in town is supposed to help but typically doesn't. Save up for that Norse Bow and buy all the Enchant scrolls, buy 1 piece of food. Sleep, wake enchant bow. Don't like? Exit to main. Load. Enchant again. Crits or Caustic at this early game. For gear "Watchful" for a 2 vision bonus. Long Range with Taking Aim for your first shot. Might even put a bleed on them with Caustic. Enchants with blocking power and dodge chance is better then health regen, energy regen or dmg reflect. Enchant everything and I mean everything the cloak. Aka there is a backpack later that takes up cloak spot. Forget it, it can't be enchanted. And more likely then not you'll want to get back to town to suffer the 1% return on everything except gems, jewelry and pelts. Resistance against Slashing, Crushing & Rend & Pierce is good. The rogue pyromancers aren't much to worry as they have to get 6 tiles close. At 4 plus vision and 12 range plus 50% they are already dead. Worry about the undead casters those debuffs allow minions to tear through you. You can always right click and inspect (and should) to see what skills they have, what buffs they have up (and the timer remaining on it), and how much energy they have remaining.

On the way to a mission or traveling always hit ALT to highlight stuff. Grab and eat any herbs you can on the way. Fly Agaric and Mindwort makes an Excellent combo. Same with Horsenettle and BogBean.

[Tzuede]

Originally posted by Ilyich:

I got to Mannshire at level 6 without any problem whatsoever playing as bowman killing bears on the way right and left)) Dealt with ambushes of three to four goons with wardogs at night. Did an "high" danger dungeon at level 6 too. I never died in this game once. What am I doing wrong? Game is really easy once you know what you are doing and learn how to kite enemies. (Hint: deadly trick dagger skill and bow skill that lets you jump two spaces away from the enemy are VERY essential). Also you should invest in dodge heavily.

X

[Mimung]

"You can't avoid ambushes. At level 10 I will get 5 bandits on the road."
-Tzuede 06.03.2020


i will just let this sit here so it can unfold its remarkable bouquet like a good red whine in a decanter

[legoman775]

So i've been around and played A LOT of these kinds of games and the OP is correct in a few areas, the game is unballanced in the sense that you can get amazing RNG and get like the best stuff in the game early on and obliterate everything, but the enemies are randomized if i'm looking at this correctly, what makes it worse is its punishing hard coupled with both of these things to get out of the starter area of all places! I know i need to git gud, but its kinda hard when loot is random and the layout is random (which i like btw) you cant get a sense of what you are supposed to be doing other than trying to facetank or do some silly stuff to try and take down the giant boss guy that literally takes 3 dmg from my hits. The game is fun no doubt but so far i cant even get by the starter area and its frustrating, I feel like there's just no balance and the game pulls from a pool of enemies and throws them randomly in the dungeon which means you could fight like 5 crappy rats or 5 of those huge OP guys that can nearly 5 shot me. (i am aware this game is still fairly new, so i'm giving constructive criticism)

[N20 Games]

Originally posted by Mimung:

nah man. nah.

this game works with the gameplay layer of being able to evaluate risks of engagement and avoiding certain engagments in the first place by player skill and xp.

it wont tablespoon feed you mobs you can easily kill in a stream of fake difficulty increases like other games do it.

just because other games do it, it doesnt mean its law.

there are e.g. very popular mods for Skyrim namely Requiem that disables the spoon-feeding lvl scaling of the enemys.
also ToME or ADOM: when you go to the wrong place and fight the wrong people: you will die.

You make some good points and I do enjoy the challenge but I think we will see some tweaks in the encounter system, leaning it toward better balance, before it's done. Also, by 'better" I don't mean easier, I just think some of the OP encounters will be pushed back a bit.