Work Permits (struggling to get any)

[PaddyJunior]

Hi Folks, I am currently playing as Portsmouth in the English League One, I signed 4-5 young Argentinian players on the cheap at the beginning of the season who have massive potential and were (for some reason) really interested in joining my club.

Anyway I sign them even though I couldn't get work permits for any of them so I loaned them all back to Argentinian clubs, mainly in the first and second division. Anyway, 4 months have passed and i Re-Applied for work permits, all rejected again because apparently they haven't played enough INTERNATIONAL games for their country. This baffled me a little as at no point did it ever mention international games were a prerequisite for a work permit. I was of the belief they needed to work more in their home country? Not necessarily the international team? This has confused me greatly as I was of the opinion they needed to work in their home country for a bit. Hence why I loaned all of them to Argentinian clubs.

These are all players under 20 so how the hell are they going to get international games? Will this not take years? I'm starting to wonder if i'll ever get work permits for these players or am I wasting my time?

If anyone can shed any light on this situation it would be greatly appreciated, am I limited to just signing English youngsters? Is it a south american thing? Would I have more luck signing young Europeans? What exactly is going on here? Any help or advice would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

[PaddyJunior]

Originally posted by Spelunker:

I believe the real work permit rules are something along the lines of the player having to be a regular international for a decent international side (i.e. having 50 caps for say Jamaica or Boliva isn't the same as playing for Brazil or Germany), or being an exceptional young talent with the potential to become an established international.

The big teams with high reps like Man Utd or Barcelona are also more likely to get work permits since any young players they sign are far more likely to become stars plus are likely to be on very high salaries in a couple of years (and paying lots of tax which governments like).

If you want to get around this the easiest way is to search for players who qualify for EU status. A number of non-EU players qualify as they have a second nationality. For Argentian players this is often Italian or Spanish.

Alternatively as stated above loan them to another EU country where they'll gain residency. Off the top of my head I think Spain has one of the quickest residency times to get EU status. It's fairly easy to check I believe it's in the rules of each league or just find a foreign player in each league and click on their details.

Also if loaning a player out if he plays in one of the better European leagues for a decent team and gets plenty of playing time, he's more likely to get a work permit if you ask again near the end of his loan

Failing that you can always use the editor if you don't mind cheating.

Thank you for you're very imformative answer. I have taken everything into consideration and I have added a manager of Argentina and put my 4 players staright into the team. im currently in January and the first games are in March, then the World cup kicks off so im really hoping appearances in the upcoming friendlies and the upcoming world cup will hopefully help towards gaining a permit for these guys.

In regards to cheating, I wouldnt blatantly use an editor and just add players and ♥♥♥♥ like that but addinbg a manager and helping me out that way I dont mind, i guess both are cheating in a sense but I guarantee it gets done IRL to help certain players and teams gain a slight advantage. Im not even sure if I have brexit rules on, how would I check that in-game?

[Snorks]

Originally posted by SALAHKINGOFEGYPT:

Brexit makes it almost impossible to sign young talent. The only players worth going for are single major transfers for your spending/league level. The one work permit I've gotten recently was for a 15 mil transfer of some random Georgian league player.

I've decided to stop my save and go play in Spain.

Brexit sucks. But its gonna suck more irl.

Depends on which Brexit you get in the game - mine is quite easy on me. Am given a limit on 'foreign players' and that's about it - no WP hassles.

[OldManBanjo]

Originally posted by Snorks:

Originally posted by SALAHKINGOFEGYPT:

Brexit makes it almost impossible to sign young talent. The only players worth going for are single major transfers for your spending/league level. The one work permit I've gotten recently was for a 15 mil transfer of some random Georgian league player.

I've decided to stop my save and go play in Spain.

Brexit sucks. But its gonna suck more irl.

Depends on which Brexit you get in the game - mine is quite easy on me. Am given a limit on 'foreign players' and that's about it - no WP hassles.

In mine Jacob Reece Mog seems to have become PM.

[Taipan]

A hard brexit will be good for football irl because English clubs have too much buying power, 99% of the rest of the Europe can't cope with it. That makes good and very good players go to small teams in the PL that never play European cups wasting their potential. Also, young players are purchased too soon and, sadly for them, the English clubs don't have a consistent young setup, with little exceptions in the last years. Youngsters should play in leagues that offer them space, like France, Spain, Germany, at an extent Italy too. It's absolutely outrageous that clubs hold on their bankrolls tens of players loaning and farming them out, it benefits only their pockets, not even their title challenges. They just mumify hundreds of players instead of contributing to football with youngsters coming from their youth systems.

Of course, a hard brexit will be terrible irl for everything else. Or almost everything else.

[Snorks]

Originally posted by PaddyJunior:

Thank you for you're very imformative answer. I have taken everything into consideration and I have added a manager of Argentina and put my 4 players staright into the team. im currently in January and the first games are in March, then the World cup kicks off so im really hoping appearances in the upcoming friendlies and the upcoming world cup will hopefully help towards gaining a permit for these guys.

In regards to cheating, I wouldnt blatantly use an editor and just add players and ♥♥♥♥ like that but addinbg a manager and helping me out that way I dont mind, i guess both are cheating in a sense but I guarantee it gets done IRL to help certain players and teams gain a slight advantage. Im not even sure if I have brexit rules on, how would I check that in-game?

Brexit is on in-game, it appears around season two or three and will be hard/soft/medium at random.

As for installing a manager in another country, some would say it is cheating, to me, it is similar to what Manchester City are doing IRL - with major ownership of clubs in A-League, MLS and Europe, as well as, I think, S. America. Although the football authorities have looked at it, it does give City the option of loans around the world if needed. Or, sign a player for Spanish club, knowing that he will be available for English team after three years.

[OldManBanjo]

Originally posted by Snorks:

Brexit is on in-game, it appears around season two or three and will be hard/soft/medium at random.

As for installing a manager in another country, some would say it is cheating, to me, it is similar to what Manchester City are doing IRL - with major ownership of clubs in A-League, MLS and Europe, as well as, I think, S. America. Although the football authorities have looked at it, it does give City the option of loans around the world if needed. Or, sign a player for Spanish club, knowing that he will be available for English team after three years.

You make a very good point. But that won't get you around a hard brexit, if it will can someone explain why/how?

[PaddyJunior]

Originally posted by SALAHKINGOFEGYPT:

Originally posted by Snorks:

Brexit is on in-game, it appears around season two or three and will be hard/soft/medium at random.

As for installing a manager in another country, some would say it is cheating, to me, it is similar to what Manchester City are doing IRL - with major ownership of clubs in A-League, MLS and Europe, as well as, I think, S. America. Although the football authorities have looked at it, it does give City the option of loans around the world if needed. Or, sign a player for Spanish club, knowing that he will be available for English team after three years.

You make a very good point. But that won't get you around a hard brexit, if it will can someone explain why/how?

Yeah, I would like a little more clarification on this matter, in FM18, what exactly would a hard brexit mean? Just harder to get permits etc? More home grown players? Whats the difference between hard and soft brexit?

[Taipan]

Hard Brexit means that all EU players are treated as South Americans. The same permit rules apply to them. You can't buy youngsters under 18 anymore, I mean you can buy them but you will get them only when they are 18. Etc.

[Snorks]

So many different possibilities - I remember reading that Miles himself was invited to Downing St as the politicians realised FM had a better take on all the Brexit possibilities than they did.
Essentially, SI considered just about EVERY possible scenario for a Brexit. They introduced the referendum into the game when it was known IRL that there was to be a referendum, which randomly decided whether Brexit won, or Stay won. Then, when IRL the result was known, Brexit was hard-coded to happen - however, the IRL leave deal isn't known, so all possibilities are included and randomly selected in your save.

I don;t know how many there are, or how they all stack up in-game so there are varying degrees of 'Hardness'.

Hard Brexit, says, essentially, all British players are British and don;t need a work permit. Everyone else is Foreign and does need to meet the criteria for a work permit. I don;t know how the squad registration is decided but you may also have continued restrictions on numbers of Foreign players.
So, British players become far more expensive/valuable and the Youth system is essential to develop.


A 'Soft' Brexit, could simply be that things continue as they are. No change.
It could also be like the one I have, all non-British players are 'Foreign', but I am allowed up to 16 of them in my registered squad, with no requirements for a work permit. REsulted in four or five of my players (Firminho, Lovren, Mane etc) getting British citizenship so not classed as 'foreign'.

It could also be somewhere in between the two.

So yes, a Hard Brexit makes it harder to bring in players from overseas wherever they are from in the world.

A Soft Brexit may make it easier.

[PaddyJunior]

Originally posted by Snorks:

So many different possibilities - I remember reading that Miles himself was invited to Downing St as the politicians realised FM had a better take on all the Brexit possibilities than they did.
Essentially, SI considered just about EVERY possible scenario for a Brexit. They introduced the referendum into the game when it was known IRL that there was to be a referendum, which randomly decided whether Brexit won, or Stay won. Then, when IRL the result was known, Brexit was hard-coded to happen - however, the IRL leave deal isn't known, so all possibilities are included and randomly selected in your save.

I don;t know how many there are, or how they all stack up in-game so there are varying degrees of 'Hardness'.

Hard Brexit, says, essentially, all British players are British and don;t need a work permit. Everyone else is Foreign and does need to meet the criteria for a work permit. I don;t know how the squad registration is decided but you may also have continued restrictions on numbers of Foreign players.
So, British players become far more expensive/valuable and the Youth system is essential to develop.


A 'Soft' Brexit, could simply be that things continue as they are. No change.
It could also be like the one I have, all non-British players are 'Foreign', but I am allowed up to 16 of them in my registered squad, with no requirements for a work permit. REsulted in four or five of my players (Firminho, Lovren, Mane etc) getting British citizenship so not classed as 'foreign'.

It could also be somewhere in between the two.

So yes, a Hard Brexit makes it harder to bring in players from overseas wherever they are from in the world.

A Soft Brexit may make it easier.

Thank you for youre speedy reply and information. I'm almost praying its a "soft" brexit in-game and IRL now lol.

Say I bought a young, talented player, say from Barca B, Oriel Busquets just for talking sake, we have a hard Brexit (we're just spit balling here) he won't get a permit under a Hard brexit, what would happen if I loaned him to another English club? Would the game "know" he hasnt got a British work permit? Can he even "be" loaned to a British team without a permit? I'm thinking about gaining citizenship, how can he "gain" a citizenship if he's not playing in the UK? can he only gain a citizenship elsewhere? Or does he have to be something special at a huge club like Man City where they decide to grant one because he "may" become a huge star and pay loads of tax?

I'm wondering how u even sign young foreign players to British teams if they cant get a permit? So for example i'm Portsmouth, we're having a storming season, got a few decent players on loan, Kyle walker-peters from spure, Josh Cullen from the Hammers, bought Darragh Lenihan from blackburn, Got Massimo Donati on a free, Stephane Bahoken banging them in League one for fun, Will Keane upfront with him, but i'm wondering, If I get a hard brexit, will teams like mine, regardless if we're a championship team or not, will I struggle to get permits because we're not world beaters? Remember i'm basing this on the worst case scenario of getting a hard brexit.

Whats the criteria here? Am i going to be punished and have a "harder" time just because i'm portsmouth? Will our stature and the players we can attract mean i'll be pretty limited to youth development and English home grown players? That seems a little harsh.

[PaddyJunior]

Also, back in 2014, did they apply Scottish Independence? Did they consider the rules and regulations of that? I know Scotland didnt get Independence but from what u said they added Brexit in even before they knew wether or not we'd get a soft or hard Brexit. Surely the same rules would apply? What about Catalonia trying to gain independence from Spain? The catalans tried to take a vote for Catalanois independence from Spain etc etc did they include that?

I know we're leaving Europe but I think maybe they shouldv'e left it un till we know exactly what it all means rfather than some players getting soft, some getting a hard brexit, it's a bit ♥♥♥♥♥♥ that other players will get different experiences from the same game, ergh, i dunno, it's cool and stuff but maybe wait til its ironed out because right now it's guess work and 1 player having an easy time signing european players and 1 struggling doesnt seem right to me.

[Spelunker]

I can't answer about Brexit in FM but in an earlier edition I took Saint Andre, a small Spanish team based in the city of Barcelona from one of the bottom leagues to become serial winners of the CL and the most reputable team in the world and expanded the stadium to 60k which was sold out every match. However when I tried to buy players that the traditional big teams wanted like Barcelona, Real, Man Utd, Juventus, etc they would still choose those teams in preference to mine. I presume that was because they had "History" whereas my team despite being the best in the world was viewed as the noisy neighbours/new boys.

So basically If you're managing one of the traditional big teams it's easier to sign players and get work permits.

[Snorks]

Originally posted by PaddyJunior:

Also, back in 2014, did they apply Scottish Independence? Did they consider the rules and regulations of that? I know Scotland didnt get Independence but from what u said they added Brexit in even before they knew wether or not we'd get a soft or hard Brexit. Surely the same rules would apply? What about Catalonia trying to gain independence from Spain? The catalans tried to take a vote for Catalanois independence from Spain etc etc did they include that?

I know we're leaving Europe but I think maybe they shouldv'e left it un till we know exactly what it all means rfather than some players getting soft, some getting a hard brexit, it's a bit ♥♥♥♥♥♥ that other players will get different experiences from the same game, ergh, i dunno, it's cool and stuff but maybe wait til its ironed out because right now it's guess work and 1 player having an easy time signing european players and 1 struggling doesnt seem right to me.

I get where you are coming from, but it's something to take up with SI and the team. I don;t thin the Scottish referendum would have had much, if any, impact on football world, whereas Brexit certainly would - hence it is included in a game that 'mimics' real life as best as it can.

For whatever reason the guys at SI decided it should be in the game, they introduced what was known for definite, in the first version available, and presented us with various versions of what might happen and have done a damn good job IMHO.

It's there in the game, we need to deal with whatever it throws at us - or start a new save. Or, I believe there are some community made mods that can remove Brexit altogether - could be wrong though.

[Snorks]

Originally posted by PaddyJunior:

Thank you for youre speedy reply and information. I'm almost praying its a "soft" brexit in-game and IRL now lol.

Say I bought a young, talented player, say from Barca B, Oriel Busquets just for talking sake, we have a hard Brexit (we're just spit balling here) he won't get a permit under a Hard brexit, what would happen if I loaned him to another English club? Would the game "know" he hasnt got a British work permit? Can he even "be" loaned to a British team without a permit? I'm thinking about gaining citizenship, how can he "gain" a citizenship if he's not playing in the UK? can he only gain a citizenship elsewhere? Or does he have to be something special at a huge club like Man City where they decide to grant one because he "may" become a huge star and pay loads of tax?

I'm wondering how u even sign young foreign players to British teams if they cant get a permit? So for example i'm Portsmouth, we're having a storming season, got a few decent players on loan, Kyle walker-peters from spure, Josh Cullen from the Hammers, bought Darragh Lenihan from blackburn, Got Massimo Donati on a free, Stephane Bahoken banging them in League one for fun, Will Keane upfront with him, but i'm wondering, If I get a hard brexit, will teams like mine, regardless if we're a championship team or not, will I struggle to get permits because we're not world beaters? Remember i'm basing this on the worst case scenario of getting a hard brexit.

Whats the criteria here? Am i going to be punished and have a "harder" time just because i'm portsmouth? Will our stature and the players we can attract mean i'll be pretty limited to youth development and English home grown players? That seems a little harsh.

TBH I wouldn't worry about until you know the outcome, or possible outcome - you will get emails from your assistant explaining the likelihood.

AFAIK, players signed BEFORE Brexit, stay on the current contract - so it might be worth extending your key players contracts before it kicks in.

AS far as Portsmouth are concerned - it will depend entirely on the Brexit you get. Most of your players are British (the ones you mention) but some of the foreigners might have WP issues. I have yet to hear of a Brexit that affected player contracts immediately, all the ones I have heard about allow contracted players to remain on that contract - so extend or resign/renew before Brexit and maximise their availability for Portsmouth.

[Kapika96]

Originally posted by PaddyJunior:

Also, back in 2014, did they apply Scottish Independence? Did they consider the rules and regulations of that? I know Scotland didnt get Independence but from what u said they added Brexit in even before they knew wether or not we'd get a soft or hard Brexit. Surely the same rules would apply? What about Catalonia trying to gain independence from Spain? The catalans tried to take a vote for Catalanois independence from Spain etc etc did they include that?

I know we're leaving Europe but I think maybe they shouldv'e left it un till we know exactly what it all means rfather than some players getting soft, some getting a hard brexit, it's a bit ♥♥♥♥♥♥ that other players will get different experiences from the same game, ergh, i dunno, it's cool and stuff but maybe wait til its ironed out because right now it's guess work and 1 player having an easy time signing european players and 1 struggling doesnt seem right to me.

Assuming Scotland had stayed in the EU if they had went independent then it wouldn't have made any difference to the game anyway.

I believe Scotland going independent and remaining in the EU is a possible outcome from the in-game brexit scenarios though. Pretty sure the same applies to Northern Ireland and Gibraltar too.

As for Catalonia, having a brand new nation pop up mid-game and transfer a bunch of teams/players from one nation to another and keep all the leagues intact (eg. promote extra Spanish teams to take the places of the Catalan teams leaving) I expect would have been quite time intensive to programme.

Plus the backlash they would have gotten in Spain had they included such a thing means it's something they wouldn't really want to add unless it was a sure thing that it would happen irl as well.