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It'll improve... it took about 4 patches last time but it got better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh3PfXO39PI
This game will be really fun once the AI actually becomes really intelligent, plus the counter attacking actually lethal.
Confidence has a lot to do with missing chances. You can use tactics and player instructions to limit long shots if you percieve this is a problem for you.
Honestly man management and player confidence are so important in being successful.
I also like it when inexperienced players think that by being Man United or Chelsea it should be a free ride... These are some of the hardest jobs in professional football.
A good example is Chelsea, remember when Mourihno lost the dressing room and they were like just above the relegation zone. Then he got sacked and conte came in and suddenly its a different team and they win the league.... Now they are struggling again.
Same players, same quality, just difficult to man manage.... I actually am impressed when I see how in depth these mechanics are and how they realisitc it is. Almost magical at times.
You mean your doing badly.... well it happens dude, my first career sucked and have got a tactic that seems to be working with the same team in my second career so its not a bug or anything I assure you.
Yeah, the zones can`t make your tactics just work, I barely have any red zones(basicly I have a little bit behind the striker, because im playing as 4-1-2-2-1) and maybe just a little bit in some other areas, but mostly all is green, yet im still struggling.
Theres many reasons why you might be struggling obviously tactics are important, but there are so many reasons, too blame it soley on tactics would just lead to more failure down the line.
Honestly I think tactics can work depending on your players though there are usually killer tactics that always work.
The best thing I can say is look at the performances over the scoreline. Did you dominate the game you lost? More clearcut chances, passing success, corners and shots on target (be wary of long shots padding this). If you dominated the game and lost then its probably not the tactics, more like the player confidence, squad harmony, fitness or form. If you getting clearly outplayed then maybe it is tactical.
Learn how to man manage. Know when to give the players a pat on the back. Know when to kick them up the arse. This was the key to me winning leagues with ♥♥♥♥♥♥ teams and avoiding the dreaded bad runs. You cant even avoid a bad game, but you can 100% stop a bad game turning into a bad run with good management.
Honestly the number of players I see who dont even mention this when saying they are stuggling when imo its just as important as tactics.
Not true, which is the problem. You can dominate FM's far too simplistic stats to kingdom come and still not really "dominate" the game. It's a long-term thing. Actually, the measures oft taken to dominate possession in the more extrem cases have always reduced the likelyhood of scoring, as if you keep things compact in a misguided attempt to simply dominate possession, you're not going to stretch opposition defenses much anymore. Actually, a huge amount of corners is typically the telltale sign of a defense barely being stretched, and clearing open play attacks easily over and over and over again (primarily tactical, from both ends). You then can get like 12 shots on target easily, which typically are headers under pressure in jam packed boxes from indirect free kicks or corners -- most of them just aren'T converted though. In real football, top teams, despite always "dominating", average no more than 7 corners per match. It's all downhill from them. I've always known players who average like 15, which is a corner kick for like every 4th minute the ball is in play, which is suspicious.
This is kind of similar to PSG - Bayern a couple weeks ago. Looking at the stats, you'd think, unfortunate. If you then look through all the shots, you'll see that PSG's attempts were mostly bonafide coutner attacks, whilst the (big amount!) of shots inside the box of Bayern were headers from their CBs. In-game too, that stuff, just isn't converted that oftenl.If you then look at more advanced metrics, such as Expected Goals, this paints a much clearer picture. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKwrvcbXoAEfw-3.jpg In the game's final match reports, Bayern would have been argued to be "unfortunate" indeed, simply because they had more shots. Which is a huge problem, too, as it confirms players in their utterly simplistic match analysis.
I've been advocating for something like this to be in the game for a really long time, because the clear cut chance is no replacement. Firstly, players obviously have zero idea what that even is. It is a subjective interpretation of a stat that is barely used anywhere, and where it is being used it shows clear cuts are missed a plenty (in fact, in-game, the long-term clear cut conversion is below 40%, on target shots about 25%, half chances below 20). http://i0.wp.com/www.eplindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ccc-conversion-rates1.png?resize=541%2C462 As a general rule of the thumb, outside of penalties and tap-ins, even one on one with the keeper, no forward in world football is expected to score (even Messi long-term averages but every 5th attempt -- he has 5 of them every match though). Plus obviously, not every ccc is equal.
In most cases of this, it's actually perception bias playing its tricks. Most human guys are playing this like some kind of virtual Kevin Keegan, always on the attack. The AI managers can have half their side on a defend duty, which means they will never make forward runs. They may not even aim to have more shots, but keep things tight, making it harder for you to find space to score, and nick a goal from a set piece or counter with a bit of luck. Depending on your playing style, they may be the only managers in-game who actually manage dynamically, as they can play like that for 80 minutes, only to then start throwing players forward on more aggressive duties as they "think" they have a chance to nick this, still not having conceded. Sometimes, successfully, whazzam, the 0-1 scoreline with the few shots on target is "created". As such, you can be first in the league with 40% of possesion, 65% pass completion and barely ever dominating any stats FM offers. The only stats that counts, is the goals. There is no stat for the space "dominated" / "exploited" on the pitch, unfortunately. If you have a high amount of set pieces / corners, this is the only statistical sign of not creating space, usually. Plus having more than 50% of long shots also means players run out of options (in real football, roughly 40%.50% of attempts are from range, as that's football, even Barcelona at their most tiki-taka area bove 30%)
Therefore, statistical domination, in particular of the FM kind, isn't managing. If you've never even thought about how to protect leads, protect from the counter, increase the likelyhood of scoring against packed defenses, you will have a few added matches of this. Naturally, in real football, sides drop points despite "statistical domination" plenty. And those are managers who think about such stuff all the time, or else they wouldn't be in their job. If you don't believe that, log on to Whoscored.com and do what you typically only do in-game -- go through every individual match stats of sides such as Burnley, Liverpool, Dortmund, Real Madrid by clicking on their name, bringing up their season's fixture list and clicking on each final match report. If that wouldn't be part of the game, it wouldn't be football. However, from my experience, in-game sides that drop points despite a huge "statistical" domination rarely ever do to creating quality chances consistently (even those should be missed regularly, see above), but mostly due to spamming crap, Klopp style.
https://twitter.com/caley_graphics/status/909089289526562816?lang=de
tldr; I have yet to meet an FM player who actually DOES have this with some consistency for which the root cause wasn't tactical (or a defensive / marking bug). As you typically get the player to never, ever listen though, I've given up on it (this will be my last ever post on it, maybe it will prompt something useful, either for the devs, or some players "struggling").
I apologise I don't really understand what you are saying? Are saying you cannot dominate stats and win or go on a good run of form?
Again its too early for me to say in FM2018 but in FM<2017 this is just not true.
You need to watch the games as well, but dominating stats is a good sign your tactics are working. Winning games where you dominate or even when your not dominating is a good sign your man management (Morale/harmony) is working.
I would say I 'completed' FM2017 to the point I think it was too easy as I was able to go 20 games with one defeat and 2 draws with a L1 team in the prem after 7 seasons. My last game which I was playing before FM2018 in my 8th season I was 18 points clear in February with Wigan and still in Champions League. I dont cheat or use player lists and my last game I used the Random PA mod so players were all different.
I am sorry but at least for FM2017 I totally disagree with this (I think), dominating possession, clear cut chances and just if you are watching a game of football you can clearly see who in control, these are all signs your tactics are working.
If you have the right squad mentality (I only sign high determination players) and the right quality (players who are too good for the current level or in prem wonderkids), you can theoreticslly go a season undefeated.
You can still win games you are not dominating with a tight defensive counter strat as well. Yo ucan come accross teams who will dominate you, yet there mentality is not right, so they dont take their chances. Yes you can get one chance, score and win the game with thte right set up.
Very sorry if I missed your point as I am not clear on what you are trying to say, but after 2000 hours in FM2017 I stand by this. Will reserve judgment on FM2018 ad its not been long enough.
Right no my experience with Barnet is my formation is definitely over performing, although our front players are not suited the roles and are kind of ♥♥♥♥, so we are not converting our chances. We are dominating possesion and playing well, just I dont have the front men I need right now. We are still grinding results and actually beat a Championship team in the cup with my counter strat and took a prem team (Watford) to penalty shoot out.
THough playing well in the league with a solid defence, we just dont create enough chances fro our possession and don take our chances. I am 100% clear on whats wrong though and its for sure a lack of quality up front and a slight issue with mentality. When I am able to pick up players who fit my system I will be able to see for sure if I am right, until then its hard for me to pass accurate judgement on FM2018 in this regard.
I am having a ton of fun though and enjoying ttrying to work out the problems.
To visualize this from an older release: West Ham with 99999% of possession, ten times as many shots inside the opposition box, almost exclusively from set pieces -- you argued dominating "corners" was a good sign, when it is typically the completely opposite, having a huge amount of corners is oftenly the telltale sign of defenders easily clearing over and over again. So the best chance easily fell to the opposition after a counter attack (wasn't even marked as a clear cut). Yet the player had the nerve to complain, even though his goal was the definition of a lucky strike. All for tactical reasons. This is long-term, and goes back to almost every "Why is the AI better at finishing than me" thread ever since the very first FM. Still the case and possible to this day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4rX1XHuQgI
You face opponents in this that don't even aim to dominate any stat the game has. They drop deep, try to keep things tight, soak up the shots you get off and try to hit you on the break. The basics of any counter attacking. The basics how Leicester won the EPL with a 60% pass completion. Lots of fansites promote tactics that are geared to purely statistical domination. They traditionally struggle against massed defenses, which also goes back to the very first FM. The reason of which is always the same. In their focus on match stats, which they are going to dominate anyhow against any side in-game dropping deep, they've never thought about how sides increase the likelyhood of scoring against teams sitting deep. Getting two dozen shots off is relying on luck more than needed if almost all of them are poor.
Now listen, if the game had a stat like the one in the following article, and if you dominated THAT, then we were talking. It doesn't have one such though, and the clear cut chance is no replacement. ***In actual analysis, the worst clear-cut chances are **worse** chances than an average on target shot, and there is copious evidence that in-game this is no different.*** For an example of this, check the one on one in the above video at 2:50, one of the pitifully few attempts from open play, where the forward has to turn and shoot immediately, and the keeper has it easy to worsen the angle. That's the kind of chance that's been always reasonably difficult to convert in any iteration. You only get that "insight" from playing experience, not due to decent in-game feedback. Until the game can provide such, treat any number with caution. It is obvious the game takes such RL finishing research as outlined in the article into account, and calculates shots individually -- but statistically treats every second shot as if it were equal. That's my final advice, the other is to register at the SI forums if you ever struggle, best source of advice. Cheers!
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40699431
From my experience in FM I can tell when I am dominating a game or when oposition is control by watching.
I listed corners as one example, but a minor example and alone obviously are not an indication of domination.
Are you saying its impossible to tell when you are dominating? I agree with everything you are saying.... I just dont get what point is being made. Obviously you can win with counter strategies where you aim to give possession to opponent, I play only lower league and obviously have one ot these. I just used to to beat Wolves and the take Watford to penalties as a L2 team.
I am really confused as essentially I agree with everything you are saying. I am saying the same thing... I think the quote you made from me has assumed I am talking only about stats recorded, when I said 'look at the performance', I literally meant look at it. All I can think is you are assuming I am saying this based on only stats.
If you are saying possession attacking strats dont work, well my main strat for FM2017 was exactly this and it was incredibly successful even against teams turtling, but as I said, I strongly believe this was more down to my recruitment of only high determination high consistency players and decent man management and motivation.
I totally agree with everything you said. I think you simply assume I am talking about the end of match stats when I am not, I mainly mean watching the game with your own eyes and judging it like that. Stats can give some indication of performance for sure, but as you corectly said they do not give the whole picture and can be misleading.