Chapter 4 Mini-game complains [Maybe spoilers]

[Shadowthynightwing]

You can critize me all you want, but this is my view of the situation.

First off, im terrible sorry for those that cant beat the mini games, espically the shooting one, I know how much of a pain that is. And for those who say you should find wallys keys instead. You need stop, if TheMeatly did this it wouldnt completely be worth the $6 that you invested into it. And the reasons why I believe so.

1. It'd be a repeat of Chapter 1, but with some combat, Bertrum and Boris, and some hide and seek, Norman and The Bucher Gang.

2. Chapter 4 wasn't designed to be easy. If you were to rerun through all the chapters, the level of difficulty would increase, as it should
But, the jump from chapter 3 to 4 was quite large, yet still manageable. So it's not TheMeatly's fault that they built their game how is should be, difficult, yet fun and a bit creepy at the same time.

3. To go off my second point, it would take a whole lot of reprogramming, as to keep the level of difficulty subsuquencial, for the main and large part of the game is there.

4. The legnth of the chapter is like the legnth of Chapter 1. Its just how long it takes you to complete the mini-games and flip the switches.

5. Finally, this is basically a repeat of reason 1 but still. Just like Chapter 1, it's ment to introduce you to new characters and new things. Not just pull something old out of the hat and hope it satisfys the player. Becuse so far, we've learned something new in every chapter, which is my theory, gonna be for some ultra difficult and ultra long chapter 5 were we use all our knowlage from the prevoius chapters to finish our sad little tale of our great and wonderous characters.

[Fierce1]

You assume much. You assume that skill (or lack-of) is the reason people are unable to beat the shooting game. From what I've heard people say (and in my own experience), it's the lag that makes the game (ESPECIALLY the SHOOTER) unbeatable.
I've been playing chapter 4 spread out since the day it was released. I restarted chapter 4, 3 times which added up to about 2 hours... 8 hours after that? Daily attempts at trying to beat the shooter minigame. (PS - Don't embaress yourself by saying something like "Turn everything off or turn the graphics to very low". I have already tried all of that.)
I've set everything to off and as low as can be, yet the game still lags for me juuuuuuuuuust enough to make beating the game as likely as it would be to not have come across spoilers for the chapter by now (try looking at Bendy videos on youtube, the titles and thumbnails already ruined most of the remaining surprises).
Target pops up. I try to aim for it, mouse doesn't slide, it jumps. Overshoots the target, I try to lightly turn it back, mouse overcorrects and jumps again the other way. Target goes down in about a second.
You have 20 targets to hit, 20 shots (which means NO MISTAKES), 9 to open the door. I've managed to get up to 5-6 maybe once or twice, but even then it was more luck that the lag put me in just the right spots while i kept firing 3-4 times per movement.
At this point, I could honestly care less about the stupid achievement that comes from the shooting game. All I want is to open the door and get on with the rest of the chapter, but I and many others are unable to do so, not from lack of skill, but because our computers, regardless of how low we turn everything, are unable to beat the lag to complete a task that requires UNFORGIVINGLY ABSOLUTE PRECISION.

[Shadowthynightwing]

Originally posted by Fierce1:

You assume much. You assume that skill (or lack-of) is the reason people are unable to beat the shooting game. From what I've heard people say (and in my own experience), it's the lag that makes the game (ESPECIALLY the SHOOTER) unbeatable.
I've been playing chapter 4 spread out since the day it was released. I restarted chapter 4, 3 times which added up to about 2 hours... 8 hours after that? Daily attempts at trying to beat the shooter minigame. (PS - Don't embaress yourself by saying something like "Turn everything off or turn the graphics to very low". I have already tried all of that.)
I've set everything to off and as low as can be, yet the game still lags for me juuuuuuuuuust enough to make beating the game as likely as it would be to not have come across spoilers for the chapter by now (try looking at Bendy videos on youtube, the titles and thumbnails already ruined most of the remaining surprises).
Target pops up. I try to aim for it, mouse doesn't slide, it jumps. Overshoots the target, I try to lightly turn it back, mouse overcorrects and jumps again the other way. Target goes down in about a second.
You have 20 targets to hit, 20 shots (which means NO MISTAKES), 9 to open the door. I've managed to get up to 5-6 maybe once or twice, but even then it was more luck that the lag put me in just the right spots while i kept firing 3-4 times per movement.
At this point, I could honestly care less about the stupid achievement that comes from the shooting game. All I want is to open the door and get on with the rest of the chapter, but I and many others are unable to do so, not from lack of skill, but because our computers, regardless of how low we turn everything, are unable to beat the lag to complete a task that requires UNFORGIVINGLY ABSOLUTE PRECISION.

I get that, as I even barley beat that stupid thing. And Im not sayin its skill, as I was lucky enough to hit even 9. But, whats getting me is people saying you should have to find keys instead of completeing the minigames. If they do that, then itd be an upgraded version of chapter 1. Besides that, it introuduces a new mandatory element.

They really shouldn't really make it optional or get rid of it cuse of laggy games, but maybe improve the crosshairs so its less jumpy and increase the time the targets are up by at most 1.75 seconds.

[Fierce1]

Originally posted by shadowthynightwing:

I get that, as I even barley beat that stupid thing. And Im not sayin its skill, as I was lucky enough to hit even 9. But, whats getting me is people saying you should have to find keys instead of completeing the minigames. If they do that, then itd be an upgraded version of chapter 1. Besides that, it introuduces a new mandatory element.

They really shouldn't really make it optional or get rid of it cuse of laggy games, but maybe improve the crosshairs so its less jumpy and increase the time the targets are up by at most 1.75 seconds.

Personally, the way I see it. It's not that people would want to just find the keys instead of the minigames, but having an option could certainly help.
For example, have the keys only count as the completion of a single minigame. That way, players struggling with one (CERTAIN IRRITATING) minigame, they could find a key instead. Even some of the Let's Players have remarked that Bendy Hell is a little underused because it has plenty of room to play as a hide-n-seek or treasure hunt-esque room. I can see that. All the shelves, boxes, and nooks n crannies, but all there is to actually "Find" in the room is a single can of bacon soup and a tape recording, both of which are sitting right in front of your face.

Also, on another discussion, I went as far as to outline possible ways that I felt they should adjust the minigames to make them more approachable...Such as:

SHOOTING GALLERY -----
- Targets stay up a few seconds longer
- The X targets count as 0 instead of minus points
- The Gun has either infinite ammo or a counter
- The Gun's projectiles are actually made visible (trace shots)
- Fewer targets need to be hit in order to unlock the door (the achievement can stay as is for all I care, I just want to move forward in the story) (5 is reasonable)

BALL TOSS -----
- A clearer power/throw meter. (Something that actually says when you're high or low on power)
- Getting rid of the power mechanic altogether, since you have to get the right angle/arc already, focus on aim, not power.
- Fixing the top bottles so that when the 2 beneath them fall, the one on top DOESN'T fall straight down and land perfect (Go play this game in real life, and see if that EVER happens)
- At least 1 or 2 extra balls
- No baby tosses... Or should I say, no dropping the ball. (Nobody is honestly that inept at tossing if they can throw a fastball one minute earlier)

If even a single one of the tweaks I listed were implimented to the minigames, they would be a LOT more fair to players like us who have been struggling with them (especially due to crappy hardware).

[Shadowthynightwing]

Originally posted by Fierce1:

Originally posted by shadowthynightwing:

I get that, as I even barley beat that stupid thing. And Im not sayin its skill, as I was lucky enough to hit even 9. But, whats getting me is people saying you should have to find keys instead of completeing the minigames. If they do that, then itd be an upgraded version of chapter 1. Besides that, it introuduces a new mandatory element.

They really shouldn't really make it optional or get rid of it cuse of laggy games, but maybe improve the crosshairs so its less jumpy and increase the time the targets are up by at most 1.75 seconds.

Personally, the way I see it. It's not that people would want to just find the keys instead of the minigames, but having an option could certainly help.
For example, have the keys only count as the completion of a single minigame. That way, players struggling with one (CERTAIN IRRITATING) minigame, they could find a key instead. Even some of the Let's Players have remarked that Bendy Hell is a little underused because it has plenty of room to play as a hide-n-seek or treasure hunt-esque room. I can see that. All the shelves, boxes, and nooks n crannies, but all there is to actually "Find" in the room is a single can of bacon soup and a tape recording, both of which are sitting right in front of your face.

Also, on another discussion, I went as far as to outline possible ways that I felt they should adjust the minigames to make them more approachable...Such as:

SHOOTING GALLERY -----
- Targets stay up a few seconds longer
- The X targets count as 0 instead of minus points
- The Gun has either infinite ammo or a counter
- The Gun's projectiles are actually made visible (trace shots)
- Fewer targets need to be hit in order to unlock the door (the achievement can stay as is for all I care, I just want to move forward in the story) (5 is reasonable)

BALL TOSS -----
- A clearer power/throw meter. (Something that actually says when you're high or low on power)
- Getting rid of the power mechanic altogether, since you have to get the right angle/arc already, focus on aim, not power.
- Fixing the top bottles so that when the 2 beneath them fall, the one on top DOESN'T fall straight down and land perfect (Go play this game in real life, and see if that EVER happens)
- At least 1 or 2 extra balls
- No baby tosses... Or should I say, no dropping the ball. (Nobody is honestly that inept at tossing if they can throw a fastball one minute earlier)

If even a single one of the tweaks I listed were implimented to the minigames, they would be a LOT more fair to players like us who have been struggling with them (especially due to crappy hardware).

Yea, they couldve done better with it, but is a storage room. And theres like 1 miracle station.
As for the ball game, yea the bottles could be fixed, but the baby tosses could be like a weak throw that goes somewhere but does nothing, and the shooter, i wouldnt go as low on the target with 5 as but maybe 7 as that would prove to easy cuse of the couple frames that have the signs behind each other, but as for the X-signs. Typically when playing these game in real life or not, it usually deducts points.

[Fierce1]

Originally posted by shadowthynightwing:

Originally posted by Fierce1:

Personally, the way I see it. It's not that people would want to just find the keys instead of the minigames, but having an option could certainly help.
For example, have the keys only count as the completion of a single minigame. That way, players struggling with one (CERTAIN IRRITATING) minigame, they could find a key instead. Even some of the Let's Players have remarked that Bendy Hell is a little underused because it has plenty of room to play as a hide-n-seek or treasure hunt-esque room. I can see that. All the shelves, boxes, and nooks n crannies, but all there is to actually "Find" in the room is a single can of bacon soup and a tape recording, both of which are sitting right in front of your face.

Also, on another discussion, I went as far as to outline possible ways that I felt they should adjust the minigames to make them more approachable...Such as:

SHOOTING GALLERY -----
- Targets stay up a few seconds longer
- The X targets count as 0 instead of minus points
- The Gun has either infinite ammo or a counter
- The Gun's projectiles are actually made visible (trace shots)
- Fewer targets need to be hit in order to unlock the door (the achievement can stay as is for all I care, I just want to move forward in the story) (5 is reasonable)

BALL TOSS -----
- A clearer power/throw meter. (Something that actually says when you're high or low on power)
- Getting rid of the power mechanic altogether, since you have to get the right angle/arc already, focus on aim, not power.
- Fixing the top bottles so that when the 2 beneath them fall, the one on top DOESN'T fall straight down and land perfect (Go play this game in real life, and see if that EVER happens)
- At least 1 or 2 extra balls
- No baby tosses... Or should I say, no dropping the ball. (Nobody is honestly that inept at tossing if they can throw a fastball one minute earlier)

If even a single one of the tweaks I listed were implimented to the minigames, they would be a LOT more fair to players like us who have been struggling with them (especially due to crappy hardware).

Yea, they couldve done better with it, but is a storage room. And theres like 1 miracle station.
As for the ball game, yea the bottles could be fixed, but the baby tosses could be like a weak throw that goes somewhere but does nothing, and the shooter, i wouldnt go as low on the target with 5 as but maybe 7 as that would prove to easy cuse of the couple frames that have the signs behind each other, but as for the X-signs. Typically when playing these game in real life or not, it usually deducts points.

A miracle station, but as far as I know, doesn't actually come into play. (If it does, just say it does or does not, do NOT say when or how.)

The baby toss is a pathetic idea. No grown man with functioning arms would toss a ball at a game THAT softly. This is the same man who chops through several thick boards of wood in rapid succession with an axe, cleaving them in 1 chop apiece, so having the baby toss is downright insulting.

5 is a fair number. Not for an achievement, but think about this... The WHOLE reason these games were rigged as the locking mechanism to a door was because the morons working the warehouse kept locking themselves out of the rooms, so the other guy had to keep coming down to unlock them. So he suggests they rig up the games to unlock them. Ok... Let's pretend there's a company that would actually do that... And not, y'know... just FIRE the warehouse guys and replace them with more capable workers, but instead actually rigs the games to unlock the door... Ok... Here's a question: Why make the games require such high scores to unlock? Suppose they're in a hurry and need to get into the rooms fast, but end up so rushed that they can't hit the targets. They get in trouble, and get fired for causing delays all across the studio. 5 is a reasonable number for speed AND practicality of unlocking a door.

[=][Madness BlooM][=]

I don't understand why people are having such problems with the shooting minigame, at least for me that minigame was completely easy I mean I beat it at the first try with perfect score and I don't experience any kind of lag or something like that. I don't know if this has something to do but I play the game with a 144Mhz monitor and a gamer mouse and a High end PC, maybe that makes this minigame easy for me....or the fact that I play shooters games since 6 years old.

[Fierce1]

Originally posted by =Madness BlooM=:

I don't understand why people are having such problems with the shooting minigame, at least for me that minigame was completely easy I mean I beat it at the first try with perfect score and I don't experience any kind of lag or something like that. I don't know if this has something to do but I play the game with a 144Mhz monitor and a gamer mouse and a High end PC, maybe that makes this minigame easy for me....or the fact that I play shooters games since 6 years old.:irpistol:

THAT. THAT right there. Is the problem. You don't know what it's like for us. Those with the lag, and those without. Have opposite opinions. For example, I watched Jacksepticeye get to the minigames. I wanted to see how many times it'd take. Wanna know how many? He got a perfect score on the shooter his first try, and I knew exactly why. I watched it in the video. He recorded smooth gameplay, even while recording, he doesn't lag. WHY!? BECAUSE HE HAS A TOP GRADE COMPUTER! That's why the challenge of the shooter game especially isn't fair to players with less than high-grade computers. There is no option we can tweak to change our computer to completely get rid of the lag. Even if we turn it all as low as possible, the lag is juuuuuuuuuust enough to throw people off, because the targets seem like they're up a long time to someone with a good PC, but someone like me? They're basically up for a second.
The only possible solution for us would be if it came from the top... TheMeatly himself.

[Bobinfinity]

I refuse to conyinue playing until that dang shooter game is made easier. Hitting 9 targets with the lag and how badly I can aim is just downright inpossible.

[=][Madness BlooM][=]

Originally posted by Fierce1:

Originally posted by =Madness BlooM=:

I don't understand why people are having such problems with the shooting minigame, at least for me that minigame was completely easy I mean I beat it at the first try with perfect score and I don't experience any kind of lag or something like that. I don't know if this has something to do but I play the game with a 144Mhz monitor and a gamer mouse and a High end PC, maybe that makes this minigame easy for me....or the fact that I play shooters games since 6 years old.

THAT. THAT right there. Is the problem. You don't know what it's like for us. Those with the lag, and those without. Have opposite opinions. For example, I watched Jacksepticeye get to the minigames. I wanted to see how many times it'd take. Wanna know how many? He got a perfect score on the shooter his first try, and I knew exactly why. I watched it in the video. He recorded smooth gameplay, even while recording, he doesn't lag. WHY!? BECAUSE HE HAS A TOP GRADE COMPUTER! That's why the challenge of the shooter game especially isn't fair to players with less than high-grade computers. There is no option we can tweak to change our computer to completely get rid of the lag. Even if we turn it all as low as possible, the lag is juuuuuuuuuust enough to throw people off, because the targets seem like they're up a long time to someone with a good PC, but someone like me? They're basically up for a second.
The only possible solution for us would be if it came from the top... TheMeatly himself.

Based in what are you saying, the problem here is not the minigame being hard beacuse it's not, the problem is that the game has a very bad optimization because if it's true that BATIM has pretty graphics they are not THAT demanding I mean the geometry is not too complex, the textures are not too detailed, even the worlds are not so big in fact pretty narrowed and compact (with exception of chapter 3 an some other areas), maybe the shaders and shadows are the heavy things here. The point is that the game engine needs a good optimization in order to run fine on medium end PCS.

PD: what are your PC specs anyway??

[Fierce1]

Originally posted by =Madness BlooM=:

Based in what are you saying, the problem here is not the minigame being hard beacuse it's not, the problem is that the game has a very bad optimization because if it's true that BATIM has pretty graphics they are not THAT demanding I mean the geometry is not too complex, the textures are not too detailed, even the worlds are not so big in fact pretty narrowed and compact (with exception of chapter 3 an some other areas), maybe the shaders and shadows are the heavy things here. The point is that the game engine needs a good optimization in order to run fine on medium end PCS.

PD: what are your PC specs anyway??

I can play plenty of games with better graphics than Bendy without nearly as much lag. Hell... Up to this stupid minigame, the lag hasn't even bothered me much. But this... THIS... THIS is the nightmare for anyone dealing with lag: having to deal with a manditory task that requires ABSOLUTE precision while fighting lag, under a time limit, ammo limit, and high point requirement.

[garowwith]

Hopefully they can fix the lag problem when they release Chapter 5. Or at least make that minigame easier for those who do experience lag (Myself included in that majority). The keys thing (or possibly some other kind of switch that could also open the door) would be a good idea for those who have absolutely no other way to advance the story. (A blowtorch would be a fun idea.)

[Fierce1]

Originally posted by garowwith:

Hopefully they can fix the lag problem when they release Chapter 5. Or at least make that minigame easier for those who do experience lag (Myself included in that majority). The keys thing (or possibly some other kind of switch that could also open the door) would be a good idea for those who have absolutely no other way to advance the story. (A blowtorch would be a fun idea.)

Hell. The key thing doesn't even have to open the door. Just let it skip over 1 game (whichever the player chooses) and that would be enough.

[Light Dakku]

Lenovo Ideapad 320. Look it up and you'll find out that it's a crap laptop, barely capable of playing games. I still beat the gun gallery on that piece of crap of a machine, and yeah, it was lagging as all hell. Took a few tries, but I was able to complete it. If your computer is suffering from lag in the first place, you need to upgrade it. Trying to get a developer to change a part of their game because of an issue with your out of date computer is unfair. You don't see people telling Square Enix to change Deus Ex: Mankind Divided because it lags on their obsolete computers. Does it suck when your computer isn't good enough to play a game you're really looking forward to? Absolutely, and I'm sorry people have to deal with this, but trying to force a change out of a developer over it is just ridiculous.

[Fierce1]

Originally posted by Doctor Yeshua:

Lenovo Ideapad 320. Look it up and you'll find out that it's a crap laptop, barely capable of playing games. I still beat the gun gallery on that piece of crap of a machine, and yeah, it was lagging as all hell. Took a few tries, but I was able to complete it. If your computer is suffering from lag in the first place, you need to upgrade it. Trying to get a developer to change a part of their game because of an issue with your out of date computer is unfair. You don't see people telling Square Enix to change Deus Ex: Mankind Divided because it lags on their obsolete computers. Does it suck when your computer isn't good enough to play a game you're really looking forward to? Absolutely, and I'm sorry people have to deal with this, but trying to force a change out of a developer over it is just ridiculous.

Sure, "just upgrade our computers". Because we're all just made of money. And it's not trying to force a change. It's trying toget a little accomidation for those like us. I've been trying to beat this stupid minigame for hours. At this point, the only plausible way I see that I'll ever be able to beat this minigame with the PC I have would be trying to hack it, if that's possible.

[garowwith]

Originally posted by Fierce1:

Originally posted by garowwith:

Hopefully they can fix the lag problem when they release Chapter 5. Or at least make that minigame easier for those who do experience lag (Myself included in that majority). The keys thing (or possibly some other kind of switch that could also open the door) would be a good idea for those who have absolutely no other way to advance the story. (A blowtorch would be a fun idea.)

Hell. The key thing doesn't even have to open the door. Just let it skip over 1 game (whichever the player chooses) and that would be enough.

Yep, that would definently be handy. Still hoping that this issue will be resolved when Chapter 5 comes out.