Classes that aren't very useful

[Beagle]

Hey, I enjoy using all the different classes in the game but some have some really absurdly bad drawbacks that make them not worth using.

Prime candidate for me is the Kill Team. Really cool theme, cool voice acting, but their negative passive just makes them useless. They just kill themselves as soon as they get stressed.

I get the theme behind it - frag themselves rather than be infected - but in practice it just means the moment they get hit by a projectile from one of those structures that spray infection needles, they kill themselves and every teammate near them. Particularly when I'm equipping them with Decon pads and a 10x pack of Decon meds, this feels pretty dumb and makes them not worth using. Effectively their health bar may as well just not exist because their stress bar is the real health bar, so I may as well use any other unit that can actually get hit and not instantly die.

I'm curious if others feel the same and if there's other classes that they feel this way about - I'd like to use more of the different types of classes in the game but when their drawbacks are this bad I just avoid them. For example the Irradiated class that takes double damage and makes all their teammates worse, or the Colony Breachers who seem to die over time just from existing.

Also curious to hear similar thoughts or opinions on the different class subtypes - does anyone actually use Recons considering how low their health is? Does anyone actually use Standards over Assaults, considering the huge health pool difference? Does anyone use Defenders for any reason other than their XL weapon slot - and if so, would you keep using them now that you can upgrade soldier carry slots? I tend to primarily use Assaults for their huge health pool as I feel the aim/move time gain from Recon and Standard isn't that important, and I'm curious if others agree or if I'm in the minority there.

[Caravan of the Souls]

Killteams: Good because of the frag if they're deployed properly (facing enemies).

Colony Breachers: Fantastic. They have massive resistances and are immune to negative mental effects like blindness and paranoia.

Recons: Fast, fragile, but they can generally carry quite a bit. Use them for baiting and hauling.

Standards: Definitely. Cost less, move faster, use larger weapons.

Defenders: Yes. They usually have pretty nice gear. Also, if you can keep them happy, they proc positive mental effects really quickly.

Conclusion: There is definitely a reason to use everything. It just may not fit with your playstyle.

[libbmaster]

Originally posted by Beagle:

Really cool theme, cool voice acting, but their negative passive just makes them useless.

Can you remeber how far they threw the grenade?

I discovered that mercs have a similar "perk": they toss smoke grenades when stressed. The important thing is, sometimes they throw them really far. If that's the case with kill team units, you might be able to evade the frag - or use it.

Given all the consumables you can use to stress your troops, I'm thinking the devs intened for "Negitive" traits to be useful if you can time them right.

Originally posted by Beagle:

the Irradiated class that takes double damage and makes all their teammates worse, or the Colony Breachers who seem to die over time just from existing.

I'm clueless to the Rad team's purpose too, but I'm pretty sure Colony Breachers are useful because their resistances are so damn high: just keep feeding them MREs and they become invincible.

Originally posted by Beagle:

does anyone actually use...

I agree with you that the stat boost upgrades render the classes moot. But in the absence of those, I can see myself chosing different classes.

I'm pretty sure recon has the largest equipment slots: they make great Rocket launcher mules, body bag carriers or loot collectors.

Assault has the worst detection stat (I think). Found that out the hard way (Decon assaults come with I-slabs. -90% detection + crap base detection is basicly blindness!). In the absence of +stats consumables their lack of large slots combined with the above makes standard classes better riflemen.

[Gray Knight]

The only unit I always use it the AI unit. it's a good "you done ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up but you can bring it back for free" unit. The biggest downsides I see to it is: only 1 holding slot, will kill infected units before the decon is over, and no stat upgrade.

Out the three only the "1 holding slot" is annoying but understandable.

[libbmaster]

Just found out that Deep six operators get a bonus to CQC.

Yeah, that doesn't mix well with a frag. Perhaps we could get that changed to a flash bang? Blind both the operator and the enemy?

[Bland]

On a general standpoint class (and in some cases division) balance has been rocked by the +size consumables, and also the LIDAR. Large inventory slots are the perk of some divisions, and all recons in particular. But unless you're running some strict self-imposed challenges credits accumulate with nothing to spend them on, so I don't think credit costs work as a balancing lever.

I mentioned LIDAR because detection range is a balancing point between classes and divisions, with hazmat divisions having particularly bad detection range. Which doesn't matter because you'll be equipping the LIDAR on every soldier who shoots because it stacks multiplicatively with division and experience bonuses, protects against blindness, AND extends detection range out to the maximum. Any one of those buffs individually would be worth equipping on certain division and class combinations, with all three it's just a no-brainer piece of equipment.

So currently assaults are usually the best, a few divisions work better as defenders but are still good as assaults, and I feel breachers can get by with being standards to get as much move speed as practical.


I find Killteam members pretty ace, actually. Grenades on panic is pretty easy to work with.* I don't know that they're the best division, but they are better pure combatants than the pre-special warfare divisions and offer a meaningful distinction compared to hiring a Guncrew member in every available pure combatant slot. Killteam members have more movement speed at the cost of starting equipment slot size.

The only Killteam member who should be in close quarters is the assault, though. And only with a morale boosting passive (decon pad is fine) to keep morale from decaying in between kills. The spike traps are fixed hazards on specific maps, infection clouds are predictable, fear-gas is garbage and shouldn't be used, and nothing else I've seen is going to unexpectedly max out 10 bars worth of panic gauge before it kills a soldier. Maybe the unique enemies in the ruins missions can do something goofy, but those are usually wide open.

*The grenades are thrown at full strength towards the active target of the Killteam soldier. They all come standard with Negamind to suggest Deep Six is really a second perk instead of a con. They can fit 25 frag grenades in a single inventory slot because of this trait.


Breachers have 95% resistance to damage, immunity to fire and infection, cannot panic, and better damage than most divisions. Even the lowly recon breacher has effectively 60! bars of health to survive spike damage. You (the player) pay for this by the annoyance of tracking how often you've fed your breacher, or by stationing them on healing stand-by cases, or by keeping a medic on your team to patch them up in between advancing rooms.

I'm personally not going to do all the logistical micro to run a Breacher on most missions. But having a unit that can wield a machete against two maulers and win is a worthwhile addition to my cryopod for indoor maps. I don't know if the health degen varies from class to class, but the standard breacher (100 bars worth of health) is plenty tanky enough and gets 8 minutes of active time from a single Pilot Satchel. (That feeding schedule isn't perfectly optimised. 10 minutes and change would be the max.)


Rad Force I didn't get until I bought one just to maintain a hazmat suited aesthetic. They are innately 99% resistant to infection, cannot panic, and when their morale boost ability triggers their resistances change from -100% to +50%. As a result, the defender makes a decent to great shotgunner/tank to soak hits, and the assault is (atypically) worse because of the larger morale bars. They don't play well next to others, which is actually pretty bad in a close range trooper, like their damage infection resistance wants them to be. But they're good enough to field if you like plastic suited troops with CBRN patches.

[libbmaster]

I take back everything I said about KIll team operators. Leave them be.

Just ran mission 33 (colony breach) with them and... they're insane. Every charge of "crazy pills" is a free grenade.

I must have thrown 100-150 frags. It was wild.

[Beagle]

Huh, that's interesting, every time I saw them deploy the grenade they killed themselves with it. Must've been a coincidence! I wonder if I could run them with an item that lowers explosive damage (does the ballistic pad do that?) to keep them safe in close encounters from themselves.

Appreciate the input from everyone, it's interesting to get all this experience.

[libbmaster]

Originally posted by Beagle:

Huh, that's interesting, every time I saw them deploy the grenade they killed themselves with it.

Try giving them "NegaMind" (found in the med dispenser, also avalible in their default loadout) when they're in the middile of nowhere: you'll see them throw the grenade a great distance!


Odds are your guys were getting stressed in CQC, and the grenade bounced off their target.


EDIT: darn, should have read more. Someone else beat me too it.

Originally posted by 5.56mm Freedom Delivery:

*The grenades are thrown at full strength towards the active target of the Killteam soldier. They all come standard with Negamind to suggest Deep Six is really a second perk instead of a con. They can fit 25 frag grenades in a single inventory slot because of this trait.

EDIT 2:

Originally posted by 5.56mm Freedom Delivery:

That feeding schedule isn't perfectly optimised.

HA! That's a hillarous way to think of the breachers. :D

Thanks for the writeup, freedom.

[Bland]

Originally posted by Beagle:

I wonder if I could run them with an item that lowers explosive damage (does the ballistic pad do that?) to keep them safe in close encounters from themselves.

That was an interesting line of thought. My first reaction was "Nah, a direct nade blast can kill a colonizer. No way can you mitigate that." Naturally you must disregard your first reactions for SCIENCE* to occur. Totally ethical SCIENCE. With, uh, ballistic dummies and not my own soldiers. Nope.

The answer is that YES! You can significantly reduce or eliminate the risk of instant self-gibbing through ballistic plates and resistance levels. With only one or two plates you're just taking the edge off of near misses. If you want to survive the perfect bounce back into your soldier you'll need three. Note also that the Neo-Brigandine available from hiring Riot Command appears to be superior. Same ballistic and melee protection at a lighter encumberance cost, and with bonus fire protection and passive morale gain.

Note that the, uh, totally ethical ballistic dummies don't take equal damage from all facings. And I didn't exactly stock up on dozens of frag grenades before heading to Neurocity. So the broad answer of "yes you** can survive grenades" is true. But there may be an even more perfectly damaging grenade placement that kills you even in triple plates.

*SCIENCE does not involve the rigorous keeping of notes, controlled testing environments, or consistent grenade releases. Do not mistake SCIENCE for science. In the event of bodily injury occuring from acting on the recommendations of SCIENCE, please contact your local body bag supplier.

**Results not valid for anyone but DULF and other assaults. I mean, uh, ballistic dummies.

[DiveSignal]

I'd like to take a moment to point out that, as the lore suggests, ballistic plate does one thing neo-brigandine doesn't--- and that is they each come with a collision zone dead center of them that does the same job as riot shields and apcdoors, and it 100% blocks any bullet/projectile if you're covering the right angles. Rounds and projectiles spark on contact with them.

Grenades, as you might have noticed are not a 'zonal' effect. In fact every explosive has its own projectile count and projection radius . That means you can literally take one for the team, and explains why u never see two friendlies die in a row to a landmine or frag.

The passive damage resist on ballistic plate will cushion and take the edge off, but turning their bodies against a blast might even totally defeat a couple of shrapnel projectiles.

Some weapons like the claymore, 20mm,MK AMR have multi stage penetrators. Those will defeat shields and ballistic hard-points.

HINT: To locate the actual armoured location, have your units sweep across the ballistic plate, and note where they project their aiming lasers on the collider. :)

Happy drops!

[DiveSignal]

Oh and two words: Phone booth c:

[Caravan of the Souls]

But the description of Neo-Brigadine says it's anti-ballistic. It lied to me. Also wow. I never knew that the words "quad-stage penetrator" in the description of the AMR were actually important. I thought it was just fluff.

[Big Wheezy]

wait... what feeding scheduele? my game said nothing about feeding scheduele, and i don't send any of them with food, i occasionally give my guys(and jackal) some onions, "shrooms" and "boneless" bags of grapes, with beef and beer on the side from time to time. btw is the pilot class have any use? either way, where can i find one? i've been having trouble locating them

[libbmaster]

Originally posted by King Potato:

wait... what feeding scheduele? my game said nothing about feeding scheduele, and i don't send any of them with food, i occasionally give my guys(and jackal) some onions, "shrooms" and "boneless" bags of grapes, with beef and beer on the side from time to time.

"Feeding scheduele" is a joke, refering to colony breacher's need to keep consuming health items (or stand infront of a medic) to counteract their inbuilt health degredation.

You don't actually have to feed your people... maybe in strain tactics 2? :D

Originally posted by King Potato:

btw is the pilot class have any use? either way, where can i find one? i've been having trouble locating them

The pilot class has a little green lazer that causes any unit targeted to take double damage - in adition, they boost the vision range of nearby allies. They're very useful! I find they work best if issued a flare gun.

You can find them in the cryovat at the specwar site - same place as the colony breachers.

[FreedomFighter]

Killteam is awesome but you need to mind their position and surrounding. Else they might panic grenade in tight room and kill themselves like when XCom rookie panic grenade their own team.