Where are log files? (Not in the sim, but on our actual machines)

[Rayackvor]

Let me start by saying that I find this game quite fun but I can't play it anymore. I have an extremely reliable machine that has never crashed on me until I played PCBS. You might be thinking "oh, just a crash, nbd, just boot back up" WRONG! The crashed I've been experiencing have been much worse, the likes of which I've never seen.
After playing for a couple of minutes, the screens will freeze (I have dual monitors) and sound will stop playing. I don't even get that crashing repeating sound that you'd usually get. it just sits there, never to return.
First step is to hit that reset button on the tower, right? only problem is the computer doesn't come back to life. It certainly tries though, but never makes it to POST. Literally no other game I've ever played has caused this to happen and it only happens when I play PCBS.

I have a motherboard with diagnostic lights and I get a beautiful read light next to the CPU LED indicating that the motherboard is convinced there is a problem with my CPU, which there isn't. After a few hours, I'm able to boot the machine back up like it never happened.

I've done a few diagnostic steps to try and figure out the cause:
1) Did a 15 minute stress test that put the CPU at 100% the entire time and temps never got above 93C with an average of 85C. The computer never even hiccupped during this test
2) I used PCMark to get a benchmark of my CPU to ensure it was performing appropriately, it performs better than the average same model processor.
3) I updated my BIOS
4) I ran diagnostics on my RAM (just to be sure)
5) I installed CAM to monitor CPU usage and temps while playing games, including putting the CAM window on the other monitor. I booted up PCBS and played for a few minutes until the computer crashed. I looked over at the CAM window and all numbers were nominal, no indication of an issue.

I think I've made a pretty exhaustive attempt to figure out the issue aside from buying a new CPU which just isn't in the budget right now. I tried to find a log to see if there was some kind of exception or fatal error or just anything that would indicate the root issue but I didn't see any log files in the game's directory. Is there somewhere else I need to look?

Is anyone else having this issue?

If there's no solution, is there any chance I can get a refund? I'd much rather fix the issue though.

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

If your computer shuts off and doesn't even complete POST after you reset it then you have some sort of terrible hardware problem that has -NOTHING- at all to do with any software on your computer. The start up and initial POST section of your computer is all before it loads any OS or software.

More than anything your description of playing games and the system shuts off, won't turn back on and then you leave it for a few hours and it runs again sounds like your power supply's fan is not working and your PSU is overheating. That's what power supplies are supposed to do. If they get too hot they won't let you turn the computer back on until it cools off. They have an internal thermal sensor inside.

I would check to make sure your fans in the power supply are working actually before you assume it's anything to do with any software, PCBS game or otherwise.

[Rayackvor]

I'm not sure you read my entire post before you decided to say that my reasoning was "laughable". I can play overwatch all day and not have a single issue, I'd venture to say that it requires way more from my system than PCBS. I can also play any other game on my steam library for hours on end without issue. However, if I play PCBS for 10 minutes, my computer gets wrecked. I also, for your information, ran a stress test on my machine that pushes the CPU to the max meaning more power draw from the CPU than PCBS will ever need with no problem. that SCREAMS that there is something going on with the software.
Don't begin to lecture me on the workings of a computer, I've spent my entire life working with them and have a career in it.
I haven't mentioned the PSU or it's fan because that's pretty hard to check. I stressed the PSU as best I could which included me running the IntelBurnTest at the extreme stress level running through 10 tests. After about 7 successful tests it failed when I started snooping around in chrome, that failure was probably my fault. But, I doubt a stress test of just my CPU would be evidence enough for you so I shifted the test to the high stress level mode and ran another 10 tests while playing overwatch with unlocked frames to ensure that it's utilizing my GPU and CPU at full at all times. Can't stress the PSU much more than that.
Here's the problem though, I bought a way over built PSU for my machine, very much intentionally. the fan on the PSU doesn't kick on at all unless it's temps start to get high, so good luck testing the fan on a PSU that's lounging around even during a stress test. I even bought HWMonitorPro to monitor temps and voltages and what did I find? everything was perfectly stable. weird. I mean, if my PSU was on the frits, surely this test would have revealed that, right??????? just to clear any other variables, while I was playing overwatch throughout this insane stress test, I had temps and voltages and utilizations up the whole time monitoring all of that. CPU and GPU were consistently at 99% and 100% usage. They were pulling about their maximum power draw, which is basically the only thing a PSU gets warmed up about.

There is a famous quote from Aristotle that goes "The more you know, the more you know you don't know." I happen to know enough to figure out what I don't know. I know that it is possible for software to cause a fault in hardware that could cause diagnostics to come back with a false reading. I know that once this false reading is acquired, the hardware can remember that for an extended time. What I don't know is how this game could cause that problem, as it is the ONLY commonality between the crashes. You pretending to have all the facts shows just how little you actually know.

now, on to the person that wasn't belittling. Jamison, I checked the event logs already. I combed through those things for hours checking first the categories I thought most likely to house information then spreading out from there and I came up with nothing. What I'm looking for is the game's logs. Where the game outputs its own logs which would have any exceptions that are thrown, warnings, that type of stuff. IF we assume it's a hardware problem and PCBS is the only application that can cause it to show itself, then that log may help shine some light on the situation. The log could also uncover a problem with the application, like some kind of incompatability with my hardware.

The CPU is overclocked but very minimally. basically I have the boost mode active all the time. I'm not going crazy with it, it's an old CPU at this point. I can say that the overclocking is stable as the many stress tests I've run at this point prove.

*edit to add the overclocking information for Jamison

[Shof]

i had a similar problem last year playing various games. i found out the issue was my CPU was over heating. Replacing the stock heatstink/fan combo with an regular cooler and new thermal paste fixed it

[Rayackvor]

Originally posted by Shof:

i had a similar problem last year playing various games. i found out the issue was my CPU was over heating. Replacing the stock heatstink/fan combo with an regular cooler and new thermal paste fixed it

that is great advice, but I've been monitoring my temps and they are not getting to overheating ranges. I also have an aftermarket heatsink, the cooler master hyper 212 EVO which has been absolutely amazing all this time.

That is good advice for many others though, it is almost always a good idea to check your temps first and ensure you've got an appropriate cooling solution. :)

During my heaviest stress test, which was the IntelBurnTest at the extreme (their highest) stress level the highest my temps ever got was 100C, which is terrible for long term usage, likely to cause the CPU to wear down more quickly, it is no where near thermal throttling or failure temps.

*edit to add what types of temps I'm seeing in the absolute worst cases

[Shof]

Originally posted by Rayackvor:

During my heaviest stress test, which was the IntelBurnTest at the extreme (their highest) stress level the highest my temps ever got was 100C, which is terrible for long term usage, likely to cause the CPU to wear down more quickly, it is no where near thermal throttling or failure temps.

depending on your motherboard, there is feature where it automaticlly turns off if the temperate exceeds 100 or above. i think this can be turned off in the bios and every motherboard is different. i know when i had the overheating issue, anytime my cpu temp spiked to 90c, it will auto turn off.

[Rayackvor]

My computer is not configured to do that. When playing PCBS, I was monitoring the CPU temps and at the time of crash (I've been able to recreate the problem 3 times, no need to do it more) the third time cpu temps were at a comfortable 60C (or round about there). A CPU is having the time of it's life at that temp. I don't believe it's a temperature problem.

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

Originally posted by Rayackvor:

My computer is not configured to do that. When playing PCBS, I was monitoring the CPU temps and at the time of crash (I've been able to recreate the problem 3 times, no need to do it more) the third time cpu temps were at a comfortable 60C (or round about there). A CPU is having the time of it's life at that temp. I don't believe it's a temperature problem.

Just so you know, all Intel processors have Intel Thermal Monitoring built in to them. If any Intel Processor (well any of them from Core2duo up to today) and if they reach 105c they will shut the computer off no matter what. It's inside the processor and can not be disabled.

Also did you check to make sure vsync is on in PCBS settings? If it's off your GPU will sit at 100% load for no reason with PCBS. I think it defaults to off. You most likely play all your other games with gsync and/or vsync on (again, like you're supposed to, to play games) and that might be why PCBS is loading the system higher than other games.

[Rayackvor]

It's not overloading the CPU though. temps haven't been an issue in the system at all. never have and are not currently. I have multiple applications that monitor the temps in my computer, one that even gives me a big notification if the CPU gets near 100C. The only time that has ever happened was when I was running the IntelBurnTest at the extreme stress level. While playing PCBS, cpu temps were sitting around 60C at slightly higher than idle loads.

[Rayackvor]

I want to reitterate for everyone that temperatures and load have not been an issue. I have outlined multiple tests above that should indicate this. I wish it was as simple as my CPU getting too warm as I can just drop $50 and buy a new cooler. The evidence just isn't there for that conclusion though.

[Jacknm2]

I just try to eliminate hardware as the issue before I start blaming software.

Do you have another CPU either identical or same socket type you can test with. Not so much stress tests but the game again. If it still produces the same behavour try replacing the PSU. again if its the same behavour now you can start to question the software.

That's all I would do, the software might of been a cause of a now more permanent issue or the catalyst for another.

If not I'd email the support email with all the information, evidence and suspicions you have.

[Rayackvor]

You're right, I should test my hardware before blaming software and that's what I've tried to do. There were days of troubleshooting my hardware before I ever made a post here.
I do not have any spare hardware available to me. I did attempt to buy a replacement CPU but bought a 7700k on accident instead of the 4790k that I needed and the 4790k is about $100 more expensive. I don't feel it's worth it to pay that $100 premium for older tech. I also don't have another PSU as if I were to replace that, it would again be a very costly investment since I would want one of equal or greater quality than I currently have.

I had considered that something happened with the game and it completely messed some hardware up but I haven't had a crash in anything else since the 3 crashes I got with PCBS.

I did email the publisher as I wasn't able to find a support email for the developer (I'm not good navigating around steam, I just launch the game I want to play) today so I don't expect a response from them for a few more days.

[Jacknm2]

When you mentioned you had the CPU running on perma Boost and the temps on your stress testing on an air cooler I thought you had a 4790k, nopt to sound like too much of a nerd or anything lol - I too have a 4790k and I used to use a Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro Air cooler very large and very heavy HS. I'm still rockin the system (see profile) as there is no need to upgrade yet, getting close but at least another generation (for my gaming needs).

I used to get those temps your talking about I even had intermitent crashing like yourself that wasnt present from other games (this was before PCBS however). I replaced mine for an AIO WC and even on stress testing I never go above 70 degree's any more and the ambient in the room is usually 20 degree's with very poor air flow.

More importantly everything clicked as I had these exact issues. First thing I would do here is (provided you have spare thermal compund) take the heat sink off, check the base for heat dis-colouration. If its ok give it all a good clean and replace the TC any way.

Make sure its seated correctly, use real temp and measure the cores as your doing the final securing so you know you got contact evenly. I'm not trying to be condescending here as I'm going off past experience.

I have spare equipment around so I can test when I have issues and I agree its not worth the premium for the older 4+ year old tech. But based on everything I've read and my past experience I'm like 95% convinced this is a temperature issue - but there is always that 5%.

I'd also say that PCBS is more CPU dependent than overwatch, its tracking all the PC components and cables in the room at any given time, so if you have 4 machines in there its going to stress it.

If not you sent the email so all we can do is wait. I hope you get a resolution to this, nothings more frustrating lol

[Rayackvor]

I agree 100% that PCBS is more CPU intensive than Overwatch. but I did do a stress test of the CPU while I was playing overwatch to simulate the maximum power draw and maximum load on all my components and other than some huge frame rate issues.
I do want to upgrade my cooling solution but I have an older NZXT case from when they still forced you to use their own fans and such to fit in the cases so I may have to hold off on water cooling.

I have re-applied the heatsink and put new thermal paste as part of my initial troubleshooting.

Hopefully I am able to get some information from my contact with the publisher. I'm mostly just bummed that I can't play, I've really enjoyed the game.

[Tiarv]

I bet your GPU is overheating. This game locks itself either in 60 fps or 'only sky is the limit' modes. With vsync enabled I can play somewhere around 30 minutes before GPU hits 90 celsius and with disabled - only a couple minutes.

[Jacknm2]

Originally posted by Tiarv:

I bet your GPU is overheating. This game locks itself either in 60 fps or 'only sky is the limit' modes. With vsync enabled I can play somewhere around 30 minutes before GPU hits 90 celsius and with disabled - only a couple minutes.

You failed to respond in your own thread. Dont go thread jacking any one elses.

I tried to assist both of you and both of you are adament. However at least the OP of this thread has gone through the most basic and advanced trouble shooting and posted some of the evidence here - Tiarv you havent even repsonded to your own thread.

GPU overheating has not been indictaed in any way shape or form in this issue, GPU's and CPU's thermal throttle unless there is some bigger issue at hand. Even laptop ones do this but laptops have poor cooling due to fitting so much into a small space.