are air & water cooling interchangable?? and is there any point in watercooling in the game

[Dutchgamer1982]

ok question 1 :
cpu coolers.. am I right to read their performance only as a factor of :
air replacement of the cooler.
(meaning the Silverstone He01 outperforms ANY of the AIO solutions or ANY of the other cpu coolers, despite many of them being more expensive?)

Question 2 : am I correct in presuming that the air displacement of a case equals the amount of cooling available to a gpu? -> I did notice that adding more or better fans to a case does allow one to overclock a gpu more..
-->
if so what is the point of ingame watercooling?
-the best 120mm fan has airflow 83
-the best 140mm fan has airflow 128

meanwhile ther best radiators ingame have
120mm : 75 (8 less than a 120mm casefan)
240mm : 120 (46 less than 2 120mm casefans)
360mm : 150 (99 less than 3 120mm casefans)
480mm : 170 (162 less than 4 120mm casefans)
140mm : 90 (38 less than a 140mm casefan)
280mm : 130 (126 less than 2 140mm casefans)
420mm : 160 (224 less than 3 140mm casefans)

unless there is some hidden game mechanic.... there seems to be no point in using watercooling in the game, unless the aim is to overclock the cpu more.. at the expense of being able to overclock the gpu less..

[Dutchgamer1982]

My so far favorite case.,. the corsair 900D.. fits a whopping 15 120mm fans.. or better yet.. 9 140mm fans, + 3 120mm fans...
--- thats a whopping 1401 airflow... + the added 176 airflow for the He01 cpu cooler..
why would anyone want to replace that for 2x480mm rad + 2x360mm rad + 1x120mm rad
-> those 5 radiators together would only have 715 airflow.. much much less than the casefans would...

sure 715 airflow going into the cpu would mean it would overclock a lot more.. but would that not limit the max overclock of the gpu by a lot too?

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

In this game if you have two air cooled GPU's and you install an AIO then the CPU's heat will no longer effect the video cards or make them hot under load. Which yes, that would allow you to overclock the CPU higher since it's no longer being heated up by the video cards. That's one use for AIO's. But yes you are correct in that the total CFM rating (not airflow, don't refer to it as that even though that's what CFM means in real life. In the game just use the in-game name of CFM as CFM) of adding all cases and the air cooled heatsink together results in the total cooling value for the case. And as long as the GPU's are air cooled and the CPU is air cooled they will heat up each other. Another way you could do it is by creating a custom water loop and putting the video cards in the custom water loop then the video cards wouldn't heat up the air cooled CPU anymore. But the only way to do that in most computer cases is to use the passive CPU cooler.. it gets complicated.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Originally posted by Aquafawks:

In this game if you have two air cooled GPU's and you install an AIO then the CPU's heat will no longer effect the video cards or make them hot under load. Which yes, that would allow you to overclock the CPU higher since it's no longer being heated up by the video cards. That's one use for AIO's. But yes you are correct in that the total CFM rating (not airflow, don't refer to it as that even though that's what CFM means in real life. In the game just use the in-game name of CFM as CFM) of adding all cases and the air cooled heatsink together results in the total cooling value for the case. And as long as the GPU's are air cooled and the CPU is air cooled they will heat up each other. Another way you could do it is by creating a custom water loop and putting the video cards in the custom water loop then the video cards wouldn't heat up the air cooled CPU anymore. But the only way to do that in most computer cases is to use the passive CPU cooler.. it gets complicated.

soo.. what IS the ingame mechanic for cooling?
-> is it as I expect simplefied? so without air inside the case or case volume a factor?
I expect it to work like :
All aircooled :
**gpu outputs x heat -> gets cooled by CFM value of all casefans, minus the CFM value of the cpufan
*cpu outputs x heat cpu gets cooled by CFM value of cpufan
AIO
**cpu is colled by CFM value of CPU AIO
**gpu is cooled by CFM value of all casefans
Watercooled, full loop
**both the cpu & gpu are cooled by the CFM value of all radiators

If it works like this.. as I expect.. than there is little point in goint watercooling..
situation 1 : your C900 case has 1401 CFM, your HE01 outputs 171 CFM
**giving the cpu 171 CFM, and the gpu 1230 CFM to cool it.
-> if one 140mm fan is taken out.. and replaced for a 120mm AIO with 100CFM.
**that drops the cpu CFM to 100, but yanks up the gpu CFM to 1273
-> using that one slot for a small custom waterloop (just for the cpu) using a single 140mm radiator is pointless.. at 90CFM thats less than the 100cfm our loop has.
-
rendering thus watercooling ingame utterly pointless..
unless there is a hidden mechanic not showed..

-----------------------------------
ofcourse what you decribe is partly what would real life happen...

IRL this is exactly what you would see happen..
your gpu's running toasty at 60-70 degrees celcius (watercooled, max load for 2 hours straight) while your cpu runs at 30-40 degrees (continues load, 35% overclocked and running for hours) thats how my pc is configured anyways..

my radiator is powerfull enough with fans in push pull config.. to displace WAY more heat out of the case.. than even the best casefans on that same spot could..
-> add to that that the cpu can put before the gpu in the loop.. so it gets the cooler water..

in the past the lot was aircooled.. and yes things could be overclocked a lot less.. while casefans do blow cool outside air in, and hot air out... air mixes more.. if the air gets above 40 degrees.., cpu trottles.. without waterloop the cpu cannot be given preferal treatment as all the case air has the same temperature..

but I wonder how much of this is actually placed in the game..

when buying a radiator.. tigher fins or more of them.. give a bigger heat exchange.. but make throughflow harder... and thus the demand for a stronger pump goes up... if your pump is powerfull enough.. tighter and more fins is always better
-> thicker rads are always better than thinner.. but the fysical limits of your case only leave room for a certain thickness.. also it means more volume of water needs to get trough... lowering the flowspeed of water in your loop... your pump must be able to handle that kind of volume...
**and than selecting your fans... for the push fans... getting air through tighter fins.. is harder... you need a minimum airpressure to even get through.. same with a thicker rad.. tigher fans have less volume of air displacement.. so there is a point. where it gets mute... as the lower volume of air getting trough ofsets the extra exchange surface... but NOBODY sane would use the fans that come with the radiator.. (so the game is flawd in that it does)
**but the beaty of aircooling is when you do a push-pull.. for the push fans you can use regulair casefans.. you want volume... they don't have to fight against the flow as they merely assist the pushing fans.. sure some leaking will happen but that will benefit the rest of the case.. for there still are chipsets and ram to cool..

this game is severely limited in that regard.. where normal fans have 2 values.. on for cm3 of air/minute displace, and one for pressure provided in mbar... giving us 2 seperate classes of fans.. (and if you take sound produced into considerator too thats 1 factor more) in this game we only get 1 type of stat for our fans.. so I suppose the pressure statistic just is not present...

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:

soo.. what IS the ingame mechanic for cooling?
-> is it as I expect simplefied? so without air inside the case or case volume a factor?
I expect it to work like :
All aircooled :
**gpu outputs x heat -> gets cooled by CFM value of all casefans, minus the CFM value of the cpufan
*cpu outputs x heat cpu gets cooled by CFM value of cpufan
AIO
**cpu is colled by CFM value of CPU AIO
**gpu is cooled by CFM value of all casefans
Watercooled, full loop
**both the cpu & gpu are cooled by the CFM value of all radiators

You figured it out. Congrats. That's pretty much how it works.

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:

IRL this is exactly what you would see happen..

You can not apply anything from real life to this game. Not cooling performance and not the performance of the parts in 3DMark.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Originally posted by Aquafawks:

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:

soo.. what IS the ingame mechanic for cooling?
-> is it as I expect simplefied? so without air inside the case or case volume a factor?
I expect it to work like :
All aircooled :
**gpu outputs x heat -> gets cooled by CFM value of all casefans, minus the CFM value of the cpufan
*cpu outputs x heat cpu gets cooled by CFM value of cpufan
AIO
**cpu is colled by CFM value of CPU AIO
**gpu is cooled by CFM value of all casefans
Watercooled, full loop
**both the cpu & gpu are cooled by the CFM value of all radiators

You figured it out. Congrats. That's pretty much how it works.

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:

IRL this is exactly what you would see happen..

You can not apply anything from real life to this game. Not cooling performance and not the performance of the parts in 3DMark.

soo.. if thats how it works.. than I AM correct in presuming there is never a situation in this game you would use watercooling.. as aircooling is always the more superior option.

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:

soo.. if thats how it works.. than I AM correct in presuming there is never a situation in this game you would use watercooling.. as aircooling is always the more superior option.

No that is not true. Custom water cooling in this game will always result in the best possible cooling (if you give it enough radiators) and will always surpass the cooling performance of any air cooled option in this game. If you want the highest 3DMark scores and the best performance out of parts in the game (overclocking) then custom water cooling is the only way to get there.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Originally posted by Aquafawks:

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:

soo.. if thats how it works.. than I AM correct in presuming there is never a situation in this game you would use watercooling.. as aircooling is always the more superior option.

No that is not true. Custom water cooling in this game will always result in the best possible cooling (if you give it enough radiators) and will always surpass the cooling performance of any air cooled option in this game. If you want the highest 3DMark scores and the best performance out of parts in the game (overclocking) then custom water cooling is the only way to get there.

than.. what is the mechanic...

as stated.. one can have double the CFM with aircooling in a system than with watercooling..

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:

than.. what is the mechanic...

as stated.. one can have double the CFM with aircooling in a system than with watercooling..

I've already explained it to you enough times in this thread. I'm not going to repeat myself again. You're just running around in circles on purpose with replies at this point. I won't reply to you any further in this thread.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Originally posted by Aquafawks:

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:

than.. what is the mechanic...

as stated.. one can have double the CFM with aircooling in a system than with watercooling..

I've already explained it to you enough times in this thread. I'm not going to repeat myself again. You're just running around in circles on purpose with replies at this point. I won't reply to you any further in this thread.

you repeat yourself without giving the data I requested.

1 you still have not given the exact mechanic.
2 you stated that "the gpus heat up the cpu, unless the cpu is on an AIO, or the gpu's are on a custom water loop. yet you failed to state the ingame mechanic by which this would happen.
3 you said I was correct in that :
cpu = CFM of cpu-cooler (either aircooled or AIO)
gpu = CFM of all casefans - cpuaircooler CFM
4 : as I stated the CFM of fans that you can place in a case is DOUBLE that of ANY radiator setup, you stated that the CFM value of a part is not equal to it's actual ingame perormance.. than I ask again.. what IS the real mechanic?
5 : if CFM is the statistic for performance :
5a : so it makes no sense to waterloop the gpu's EVER (on top of that aircooled gpu's usually are cheaper and overclock better)
5b : a waterloop CAN make sense for the cpu.. but you are sacrificing so much CFM away from the gpu's.. that it makes more sense to just add casefans and overclock the cpu less to be able to overclock the gpu's much much more..
6: so unless not all CFM is equal (aka that the CFM of a radiotor is not equal in value to the CFM of a casefan or AIO fan... I am missing a mechanic here...

I asked for a mechanic.. and besides you saying "you figured it out" but than disagreeing with the logical conclusion if my hypotheses was correct.. you have not provided the mechanics data I requested.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Originally posted by Aquafawks:

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:

than.. what is the mechanic...

as stated.. one can have double the CFM with aircooling in a system than with watercooling..

I've already explained it to you enough times in this thread. I'm not going to repeat myself again. You're just running around in circles on purpose with replies at this point. I won't reply to you any further in this thread.

let me put it even simpler :

am I correct in presuming that :

a case with 200CFM of casefans + a cpu aircooler with 100CFM = 100CFM for cpu, 100 CFM for GPU
a case with 100CFM of casefans + a 100 CFM AIO = ALSO 100CFM for cpu, 100CFM for GPU

a case with 200CFM of radiators with both the GPU and CPU in a loop = shared pool.. if one is overclocked more, the other can be overclocked less.. so you can go anywhere from 0-200CFM for CPU and 0-200 CFM for gpu, but the added up total cannot exceed 200CFM

IF the andswer on all 3 above is : YES.
than the fact is simple : the total CFM value of casefans in a case is always much higher, than the total CFM value of radiators that fits that same case as such the GPU should ALWAYS be aircooled.

for the cpu.. it depends.. aircooling will add more CFM than an AIO will. but if you are willing to sacrifice a bit of cpu CFM (dropping it from 171 down to 100 for the cpu) one can gain an additional 42 CFM for the gpu
-> a full waterloop will ofcourse be able to outperform that 171 max value.. but at the expense of many casefans.. lowering the max overclock potential of the GPU by quite a lot.

**my thinking is.. that since the exchange rate is about 2 to 1 (you need to sacrifice 2CFM of casefan value, aka remove 2CFM of cooling away from the gpu's.. to add 1CFM of radiator cooling to the cpu... that bad an exchange rate.. seems like not worth it in my book.

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:

you repeat yourself without giving the data I requested.

1 you still have not given the exact mechanic.

I did give you the data and it's very simple: If your system is air cooled, max out the fans with the highest CFM fans possible. If the system is custom water cooled then fit as many radiators in the case as you can. This works for customer jobs. If you're trying for 3DMark scores for fun then just use the Raijintek Enyo case, fit it with as much CFM worth of radiator you can figure out how to fit in the case. That's it. There's nothing else to figure out. There is no "Mechanic" to cooling in this game. It's not that difficult.

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:

I asked for a mechanic.. and besides you saying "you figured it out" but than disagreeing with the logical conclusion if my hypotheses was correct.. you have not provided the mechanics data I requested.

I've told you all the relevant data necessary for you to figure it out. If you can't figure it out from what I've already told you then that's your problem.
For the last time: No more. You're way over complicating a simple thing. Just build computers and go play the game.

[Jacknm2]

IIRC, whilst you can add more CFM via pure fans/air cooling there is a hard cap in the games cooling mechanics that gets reached. Past a certain point it might mathematically be more but its more like diminishing returns. Where as custom loops might have less CFM their cooling has more 'weight' in that regard, like each CFM is x1.25 that of air cooling.

I think the devs did it this way to push people to custom loops in order for it to matter and reflect real life in that way (otherwise none of us would do custom loops).

Someone at some point did manage to look at the game files and work it all out so they could max out the 3Dmark scores back when we were all trying to compete with each other.