Does the game only count CPU and GPU wattage?

[Skyblue]

Seeing that other components don't display their wattage, this was my original opinion.

But I have a job which I ended up installing a Ryzen 3 1200 (65 w) and an MSI Radeon R9 390X Gaming 8G (275 w), that's 340 w total, so I put in a Shean Powerking 350 (350 w), the rest of the components are the cheapest compatible ones with no extra.

But when I ran 3DMark, I got an "Uncorrectable Hardware Error" BSOD. That is usually a PSU error, not thermal. So I change the PSU to Cooler Master MWE Bronze 450 (450 w), and it ran 3DMark just fine.

So what's the problem? Why can't a 350 w PSU handle a 340 w system? Of course IRL there are other components to calculate, but just like I said, the store doesn't display other component wattages, so I don't think it counts.

Next is energy efficiency. Let's be generous and assume that Shean Powerking 350 is rated 80+ that would put its efficient wattage at 280 (at least). So that works, but the thing is I have another job where I used Shean Powerking 350 for a 305 w system, and it ran 3DMark just fine.

So what gives?

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

It's just like real life... in real life you wouldn't run a 348 watt system on a 350W psu, it most likely would shut off the computer and/or crash. Even in real life you have to build a system with roughly +10% more power supply than it actually uses or it won't run at all. Most power supplies in computers won't run @ 100% or 98% load. At least, not cheaper ones. Some name brand ones from Cooler Master or Corsair would do it but in general that would be a very terrible idea and even if it runs it would cause premature failure in a few months. So it's good to see this game is teaching people -NOT- to do this.

[Skyblue]

It would be nice to know exactly how it is calculated, but for now I only have a very small sample of PC wattages.

[Jacknm2]

Wattages may not be counted correctly? As they were not counted at all until the last patch/update so you could use a 250w with any setup and it worked, So it might be a step forward but not completely accurate yet as it tries to take into account other hardware and peripherals?

Just a guess, but taking screenshots and posting it in the bug's forum might help :)

As a note to the above, I agree with too, My general rule of tumb is to get a PSU that will be operating at the best efficiency curve, despite modern PSU's all operating similarly and these curves being relatively flat accross bronze to titanium standards, I don't usually buy higher than gold standards because the cost savings vs price of the unit is not usually all that great.

But still, I like efficiency so I usually buy the unit I've found will be hovering in that efficency range of the calculated power requirements and in between 10% - 100% load. Mine worked out to about 664w Load with all my devices and everything included so I bought a 750w gold rated PSU, iirc recommended PSU via a calculator was about 715w. I could of or should of gone for an 850w if I wanted more head room but again cost and lack of serious overclocking neglected the need for higher.

I thought i'd include the above for greater context and add my 2 cents in on this :)

[Skyblue]

I don't think screenshots would do, I mean what exactly would I SS? I already listed all the parts that made up the computer when it met with the BSOD, I think that should be enough for now.

And yes, I do understand how wattage works IRL, I did build my own rig. My question is more to the technical aspect of the game. I'm the kind of guy that likes to 100% every game I played, explore every aspect and content a game can offer, and work hard to find the best min-maxing build that I can. If I can work out how wattage works in this game, I can plan more accordingly, and yes, I know it will only save me around $5, if any, but I still like to know how the game mechanic works.

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

Originally posted by Skyblue:

I don't think screenshots would do, I mean what exactly would I SS? I already listed all the parts that made up the computer when it met with the BSOD, I think that should be enough for now.

And yes, I do understand how wattage works IRL, I did build my own rig. My question is more to the technical aspect of the game. I'm the kind of guy that likes to 100% every game I played, explore every aspect and content a game can offer, and work hard to find the best min-maxing build that I can. If I can work out how wattage works in this game, I can plan more accordingly, and yes, I know it will only save me around $5, if any, but I still like to know how the game mechanic works.

I certainly would hope you didn't build your computer to use exactly the power supply to meet your system's power needs to the letter and run it at 100% capacity all day every day. Because that's what you're trying to do in this game.

Or rather, if you did do that, you'll find out why it's a bad idea in 6~8 months when your power supply dies.

[Skyblue]

Originally posted by Impending Rentacle Tape:

Originally posted by Skyblue:

I don't think screenshots would do, I mean what exactly would I SS? I already listed all the parts that made up the computer when it met with the BSOD, I think that should be enough for now.

And yes, I do understand how wattage works IRL, I did build my own rig. My question is more to the technical aspect of the game. I'm the kind of guy that likes to 100% every game I played, explore every aspect and content a game can offer, and work hard to find the best min-maxing build that I can. If I can work out how wattage works in this game, I can plan more accordingly, and yes, I know it will only save me around $5, if any, but I still like to know how the game mechanic works.

I certainly would hope you didn't build your computer to use exactly the power supply to meet your system's power needs to the letter and run it at 100% capacity all day every day. Because that's what you're trying to do in this game.

Or rather, if you did do that, you'll find out why it's a bad idea in 6~8 months when your power supply dies.

I certainly would hope that you smart enough to understand what game is, because you sound like someone who has never played games before. You certainly don't understand what maximizing efficiency is and why for that I need to know exactly how the game mechanic works.

Unless you think that this game is a real tutorial on how to build PC that can be used in RL, in which case you're hopeless.

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

Originally posted by Skyblue:

I certainly would hope that you smart enough to understand what game is, because you sound like someone who has never played games before. You certainly don't understand what maximizing efficiency is and why for that I need to know exactly how the game mechanic works.

Unless you think that this game is a real tutorial on how to build PC that can be used in RL, in which case you're hopeless.

Yes I know it's a game, and I already explained you how it works and for some reason I can't understand, you seemed to not understand that. Maybe I wasn't clear in my earlier post so I will try again and try to be clearer. Perhaps some how this time you might understand.

In this game, for it "To work" and not crash under 3dmark, in the game, you need a power supply that is +10% larger than what the actual load is. 305W of load + 10% = 335.5W target, so when you placed a 350W power supply with 305W of components in the game, it worked.

Equally as you stated, 348W of load +10% = 382W target, so when you put a 450W power supply with it, again, it worked.

But then as you observed, trying to put a 350W power supply with 348W of load does not work.

You can not put a power supply that is -EXACTLY- to the number matched to the load total, or even just +5 watts more, that's not how it works in this game.

This is not any sort of "Official" number from the developer or anything it's just what I have observed myself in to "What works".

Also about efficiency I don't think you quite understand how efficiency works. In your earlier post you are wording it as if you think with a 350-watt, 80+ rated power supply, that it can actually handle 280W, which you are assuming would be 80% of 350W.

In reality if this were even close to simulating real life, no, if a power supply is rated for 350 watts (and comes from a major tier-1 brand company and not a cheap bottom-barrel unbranded unit from china), it will handle 350 watts of load from the components, regardless if it's 65% efficiency or 80% efficiency. What efficiency rating means is how efficient it is at converting the power. a 65% efficiency rated power supply would handle the 350W, but actually draw 472 watts of power from the outlet while doing so, and dump 45% of it as waste heat into the room. Where as an 80% efficiency rated 350W power supply will handle the same 350W just like the 65% one, but only draw 420 watts from the outlet while doing it, and only be dumping 20% as waste heat into the room.

Big-name tier-1 power supplies from Corsair, ThermalTake, etc, generally will all handle their rated wattage all the time if they were loaded that hard. It's not good for the power supply's health long-term, but they will do it.

Also all power supplies have an "Efficiency curve". All power supplies reach peak efficiency @ 50% load, so ideally you want to have your power supply for an IRL computer be matched so your computer only loads it to 50%.

I do not think this game factors in efficiency what so ever.

[Skyblue]

"In this game, for it "To work" and not crash under 3dmark, in the game, you need a power supply that is +10% larger than what the actual load is. 305W of load + 10% = 335.5W target, so when you placed a 350W power supply with 305W of components in the game, it worked."

"This is not any sort of "Official" number from the developer or anything it's just what I have observed myself in to "What works"."

See? How hard was that? That's the only thing that I want to know when I made this thread. I never asked how it worked IRL, certainly don't need your condescending attitude.

Yes, it's been awhile since my last build, I've confused PSU energy efficiency with UPS power factor, so sue me.

And yes, I've come to the same conclusion as you, it seems 10% might be appropriate.

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

Originally posted by Skyblue:

"In this game, for it "To work" and not crash under 3dmark, in the game, you need a power supply that is +10% larger than what the actual load is. 305W of load + 10% = 335.5W target, so when you placed a 350W power supply with 305W of components in the game, it worked."

"This is not any sort of "Official" number from the developer or anything it's just what I have observed myself in to "What works"."

See? How hard was that? That's the only thing that I want to know when I made this thread. I never asked how it worked IRL, certainly don't need your condescending attitude.

Yes, it's been awhile since my last build, I've confused PSU energy efficiency with UPS power factor, so sue me.

And yes, I've come to the same conclusion as you, it seems 10% might be appropriate.

I will apologize then. I did not intend for my words to be condescending towards you, at least not intentionally. I was trying to explain but I think perhaps I wasn't wording it properly the first time. Sometimes things I type into here sound differently in my head when I type them, and then they are perceived differently by the person reading.. this is a text-only medium. :/

[Jacknm2]

The problem I have with this is, some people just say its a game and others say its an educational tool.

I've been taking the approach that its a limited and not all that perfect educational tool to a certain degree, so I go to using real world logic and figures to refer back to the game that way people have a better understanding how it all works not just from one aspect.

Using real world logic would fix this issue as we stated, its why I mentioned it, its the same logic we've used for people who have been asked to upgrade a customers GPU in game and replace a GTX 1050 with a GTX 1050ti, on paper this is an "upgrade" but not seeable one to the end user, so we used real world logic, that you would go for something a tier or 2 above not just side step and thats how it works in the game as well.

Figuring out and using game logic could end up being disastrous for the user that applies that in real life, I'm not saying any one would but we need to figure out how far we are going to take this in terms of "Educational Tool" or are we going to draw the line and say "this is just a game man chill".

I'm glad the OP got their answer and yea, its a game and people are going to min-max of course. But we need to decide as a community if we are or aren't going to support the idea of this being a gateway / sandbox for new comers to the PC Master Ra.. err eh... The Realm of personal computers xD

[Skyblue]

@Impending Rentacle Tape. That's okay, unfortunately, you've also caught me not at my best moment.

@Jacknm2. Of course. I myself have taken this game as a middle ground between "only game" and tutorial. This game won't make or teach anybody how to become a decent PC tech (at least not at it present form), but it will definitely get somebody with minimal knowledge of PC building to at least be familiar with the basic, concept and the jargon. I enjoy the game tremendously because I like PC, and I would love to see the devs make the game more technical and complex. The part about min-maxing come from my gamer side, and as OCD as I am, I would always try to find the most efficient way in my approach to any game.