Viking scouts are terrible now

[VEF215]

I had 1 unit of Slav shieldmen fighting off 2 Viking spear raiders. 2 units of Viking Scouts come from behind and crash into them, getting off their charge, Shieldmen's health barely goes into yellow from green. They are such an iron investment early on for Vikings, why bother recruiting them? Also each loss is 5 iron to replenish, that's pretty big early on. They are such a small unit too, any mistake and they are dead. Now they can't kill anything anymore. They made it possible to play against Slavs (best early game village captures in the game, with Chase and Raise Shields) but now Vikings have to go straight to beserkers as fast as possible otherwise they will lose.

Viking Raiders -> pretty good against Slingers, Longbowmen too if they are fast enough
Viking Raiders -> really good against Cleavers, German archers
Viking Raiders -> bad against Slav shieldmen, so switch it up and get Scouts? Not anymore you are asking to be behind in iron for little gain.

They can harass peasants and pin down very weak close to death squads. Before the tradeoff was good power and mobility, but very weak health and very small squad size (any mistake they are wiped.)

To fix this, revert the charge back to its previous power, but maybe cap the number of units their charge can kill? 6 max? They are pretty lame right now, and not satisfying to use, or fight against. He should have wiped my squad in that battle, his tactics were better, but because of the insane nerf it was just comical.

[PeteSkTemplar]

Game is very much scissor paper (I wish those bonuses and armor could brake that basic scissor paper mechanics for I dont like that max armored shield with def or off bonus will loose to non upgraded twohanders with no lvl - 1v1) same works with shields against their counter - twohanders or real cavalry.

Scouts are not real cavalry, I would lower their cost for sure but it is pointless to have more than one for just scouting.

Same should be done with Vikings I guess as was with Slavs to have ability to advance to II tier and have bit cheaper barracks to avoid being chained to spears only for whole early game. Cheper barracks would also healp Anglo-Saxons and Germans too to have more options to basic starting units. So no more thread as Germans were very much nerfed while Slavs were useless against them them:) On the other hand if that scissor-paper mechanics could be challenged by armor upgrades and levels then even those Tier changes would not be that much needed I think.

[Beefers]

Best use for viking scout has always been for the pin ability, this doesnt really change any of that just stops them from 1 shotting t1 shield units. Unit is there to scout and prevent retreat, in very few edge cases should they engage in actual combat.

Preventing retreat and eating squads is really powerful.

[deemo1225]

VEF i don't know how hardcore you played the beta but before when the scout was 1 shoting it was super op vs slavs.
Why, well slavs have 2 different openers shields or cav archers with the opening on scout with vikings it made slavs ahve to go horse archers. Now why is this a problem you might ask well it comes down to 2 things.
1. Horse arcehrs can not cap anything with reliable speed
2. horse archers come out extremely late
with these 2 factors the only why you could not get shut out of early game was predicting which village your opponent was going for. This was much much easier in the beta where you could hear units on the map and lost heritage allowed you to contest the second village cap but now you literally have to be a pyshic to be able to win the match up.
This was also cancer for any slav player as while it may be fun to watch your units steam roll another squad while taking little to no skill to use it isn't much fun for the opponent who can't even catch up to the squad.

[VEF215]

Originally posted by deemo1225:

VEF i don't know how hardcore you played the beta but before when the scout was 1 shoting it was super op vs slavs.
Why, well slavs have 2 different openers shields or cav archers with the opening on scout with vikings it made slavs ahve to go horse archers. Now why is this a problem you might ask well it comes down to 2 things.
1. Horse arcehrs can not cap anything with reliable speed
2. horse archers come out extremely late
with these 2 factors the only why you could not get shut out of early game was predicting which village your opponent was going for. This was much much easier in the beta where you could hear units on the map and lost heritage allowed you to contest the second village cap but now you literally have to be a pyshic to be able to win the match up.
This was also cancer for any slav player as while it may be fun to watch your units steam roll another squad while taking little to no skill to use it isn't much fun for the opponent who can't even catch up to the squad.

167 hours.

Tier 2 -> Spearmen for 50 wood

I'm not saying they should go back to exactly how powerful they were before, but a middleground

[VEF215]

You can create Spearmen in 2 minutes and 2 seconds as Slavs, so no reason for such a huge Scout nerf

[deemo1225]

devs are going to be nerfing slavs and the fact that you can only find the use for scouts to be 1 shotting a certain unit means they shoudln't exist in the game. Scouts rn are used for scouting harrasment and for support. A scout shouldn't have it's 1 role be to 1 shot 1 unit with little to no counter play (traps don't count as you can't really use traps in a offensive situation). It is also important to note that the german hold the line nerf and scout nerf where techincally implemented when the game went live but for some reason the last patch reset the changes.

[VEF215]

I can tell you didn't read the OP. They no longer function like cavalry which makes them no fun imo. Right now you have to fight in defensive circle with spears, hover around with scouts, charge in, pin down, instantly retreat and hope the shields are weak enough to die fast enough to a unit they counter. And if there are multiple shieldmen supporting each other you can't do much, Scouts will get cut down when they go in.

[deemo1225]

and before slavs could do nothing. in this situatuions what you are describing is a scenario in which the viking player wins. Now this might take skill but it is better then 1 unit rushing in and being able to instanly kill all of your units. Also as stated they aren't mean't to be real cavarly they are scouts hint the name.