Why are bosses so easy and why is first one the hardest ?

[kobi]

Just why?

I mean i know why, thats because its the only boss i saw that can instakill you (taking all that fire without shield hurts) and bosses in general are too easy if you take that aspect out

[NATIK]

First boss is incredibly easy on all classes and stays easy even on NG+ and beyond, the same cannot be said of the other bosses.

However if you think the first boss is the hardest you do you, but I think the only boss that is easier is Shadowface on NG, but he gets a lot harder on NG+ and beyond due to tons of curse attacks.

[kobi]

can't speak about ng+ but first boss is the only one i died on so far, because it can kill anything that comes too close and has no shield with fire. And to be fair most classes i played have either little single target damage or can't damage constructs properly (looking at sorc and warlock)

[VeraelHasta]

Originally posted by kobi:

can't speak about ng+ but first boss is the only one i died on so far, because it can kill anything that comes too close and has no shield with fire. And to be fair most classes i played have either little single target damage or can't damage constructs properly (looking at sorc and warlock)

Erm, no? WHen playing my rogue I had no real problems with it. You just move away when the fire starts and round in a circle for a few seconds.

[lotsoffire]

I've struggled with the first boss more than any other. It does loads of damage, its attacks cover a large area, and it has a ton of health. To kill it, you need high single-target damage, otherwise it will wear you down until you can't recover health anymore.
I think it might be harder because by the time you reach other bosses, you've got more trinkets and skill enhancements.

[Shrimp]

I started playing a ranger, and for me its not actually the (first) boss that is the problem. But the goblins are just too much to fight while fighting the totems. they are too accurate, they spawn too often, and they way they move (distinct separated circling motion around the totem, and avoiding direct combat when possible) make it take way too many resources to deal with them whilst trying to kill the boss. I almost beat the boss first try, but around half on the lighting totem i just ran out of gas fighting the goblins because since they keep spawning and are so accurate you have to deal with them. I think four ways to sort of fix this in particular off the top of my head.

Decrease spawn rate/maybe make them spawn faster the more you can.
Make the goblins take damage from the totems attacks
Make the goblins less accurate (i get they are intelligent unlike the beetles and wasps but they have crude weapons and rely more on pack tactics. Just a nerf for the bossfight would be enough, but i wouldn't complain if they took it overall. a goblin shouldnt be able to predict where ill be after a dash and where to aim for the blow dart to make it in time in .3 of a second. maybe leave that for stronger more intellegent/well armed opponents)
Make them have lower health values or pathing that is easier to deal with.

I have JUST got the game, i played a little hammerwatch one and the demo but i got a inkling that with all that was going on, that there might be a discussion about.

Its the FIRST boss. I think they could ease up a bit and let it get harder as it goes on. and i feel like there is a trend sometimes where boss fighting and i guess combat in general in some games/genres can just get out of hand with difficulty and mechanics and so on and so forth; But i think if you do simpler things really well people wont really complain. everything doesnt have to be immediately super high octane mlg 1000000 apm brain gym gameplay off the jump.

In my personal opinion.

[jerseyp19]

The reason the first boss is hard but they get progressively easier is because you start building up trinkets and abilities, and then just start steamrolling. I think it ruins the pacing of the game. I remember having to do a couple runs, leveling up to get better skills and attributes and spending gold for town upgrades before finally beating the goblin totem. I thought the game loop would be similar - beat boss, get to new area and it's harder, boss is hard, farm xp and gold to finally beat the boss, unlock new area, repeat.

What actually happens is, if you happen to be strong enough to beat the second boss, your trinket/ability bonuses will continue to stack and you are guaranteed to beat the game unless you get 1-shot by the bugged lightning wizards in the last level. It also seems like the developers tried to pad difficulty of later levels by just increasing the number of enemies, which in my opinion also waters down the experience. This game has a good foundation, but the content is lazy.

[GogglezDoNuffin]

If you're having problems with it initially, it helps a lot to have at least 3 potion charges and how much they heal.

And if you can, buying 2 Dash charges more from Athletics and ~4 ranks of Dash cooldown and swapping Combo activation to 3x Dash from Library can help a lot too. Then you can have Combo on permanently after Dashing 3x in a row and keep Dashing for increased movement speed and/or for Combo Novas, it's good tactic on bosses and Combo Novas do enough damage on NG0. I've been dumping all the stat points on every char for w/e main stat I need based on weapons and rest to vitality, like 40/60.

First boss is easiest or second easiest. Warlock levels give all resist bonuses, getting few levels might help you enough. Also, floor leading to bosses always has Well/Spring that'll give back potion charges (lvl up also gives max), use them and do not hesitate to chug potion in any situations that might get you killed.

[Sharkinbear]

I understand what op is saying though. As a first boss, it's pretty tough with the adds. By comparison, if you had the plant boss as the first boss I feel like it would have been a easier boss to lean into for people.

[Dusklite]

Originally posted by Sharkinbear:

I understand what op is saying though. As a first boss, it's pretty tough with the adds. By comparison, if you had the plant boss as the first boss I feel like it would have been a easier boss to lean into for people.

Arista as first boss would have filtered around 95% of all players, trust me.

Totem Pole is actually fine. It teaches some things early on without being too hard. You don't have to rush any boss and have to see what it does and react to this. I'm genuinely happy with all the bosses even while other things in the game are in a bit of a state right now.

What I am trying to say is: the first boss feels hard because the character is still very weak when first encountered and you do not yet know the correct approach to bosses in this game in general. Once you beat that one and you learned something, other bosses automatically become more manageable.

[Shrimp]

Originally posted by Dusklite:

Originally posted by Sharkinbear:

I understand what op is saying though. As a first boss, it's pretty tough with the adds. By comparison, if you had the plant boss as the first boss I feel like it would have been a easier boss to lean into for people.

Arista as first boss would have filtered around 95% of all players, trust me.

Totem Pole is actually fine. It teaches some things early on without being too hard. You don't have to rush any boss and have to see what it does and react to this. I'm genuinely happy with all the bosses even while other things in the game are in a bit of a state right now.

What I am trying to say is: the first boss feels hard because the character is still very weak when first encountered and you do not yet know the correct approach to bosses in this game in general. Once you beat that one and you learned something, other bosses automatically become more manageable.

Now i can't say for sure since i haven't progressed out, but alot of people are saying the subsequent bosses don't get much more challenging, and that they maybe actually get easier.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all about the first boss being difficult because you're character is weaker; But to me this just seems like poor design on the difficulty scaling. Why would a game be laid out so that the very first segment of the game is where you have to grind to even progress through multiple runs and upgrades and you use that power you gained there to ease through the rest of the game on cruise control?

You put the spike in the first section of the game and then after that its all downhill? (supposedly** i dont know its just what others are saying***)

[Dusklite]

Originally posted by Shrimp:

Originally posted by Dusklite:

Arista as first boss would have filtered around 95% of all players, trust me.

Totem Pole is actually fine. It teaches some things early on without being too hard. You don't have to rush any boss and have to see what it does and react to this. I'm genuinely happy with all the bosses even while other things in the game are in a bit of a state right now.

What I am trying to say is: the first boss feels hard because the character is still very weak when first encountered and you do not yet know the correct approach to bosses in this game in general. Once you beat that one and you learned something, other bosses automatically become more manageable.

Now i can't say for sure since i haven't progressed out, but alot of people are saying the subsequent bosses don't get much more challenging, and that they maybe actually get easier.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all about the first boss being difficult because you're character is weaker; But to me this just seems like poor design on the difficulty scaling. Why would a game be laid out so that the very first segment of the game is where you have to grind to even progress through multiple runs and upgrades and you use that power you gained there to ease through the rest of the game on cruise control?

You put the spike in the first section of the game and then after that its all downhill? (supposedly** i dont know its just what others are saying***)

Well, I'm just spitballin' here since for me most bosses had equal difficulty (died about once to each of them, then mostly didn't anymore unless I had a random screw-up or really bad luck on skill upgrades)...

... I think the first boss is like that to get people to get used to the "die until you get it or level enough to not have to get it" loop early on.
Imagine a boss about 3-4 hrs of gameplay in (for the average player) would do that. People would rightly complain that the refund window is over and that they feel tricked.

Be glad it's the first boss that is a minor filter, that way you know what ride you are in for early and can get off if it's not your cup of tea.

[Telzen]

Originally posted by Shrimp:

Originally posted by Dusklite:

Arista as first boss would have filtered around 95% of all players, trust me.

Totem Pole is actually fine. It teaches some things early on without being too hard. You don't have to rush any boss and have to see what it does and react to this. I'm genuinely happy with all the bosses even while other things in the game are in a bit of a state right now.

What I am trying to say is: the first boss feels hard because the character is still very weak when first encountered and you do not yet know the correct approach to bosses in this game in general. Once you beat that one and you learned something, other bosses automatically become more manageable.

Now i can't say for sure since i haven't progressed out, but alot of people are saying the subsequent bosses don't get much more challenging, and that they maybe actually get easier.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all about the first boss being difficult because you're character is weaker; But to me this just seems like poor design on the difficulty scaling. Why would a game be laid out so that the very first segment of the game is where you have to grind to even progress through multiple runs and upgrades and you use that power you gained there to ease through the rest of the game on cruise control?

You put the spike in the first section of the game and then after that its all downhill? (supposedly** i dont know its just what others are saying***)

Later bosses are harder, not sure what OP is talking about. I've only failed the first boss the first time I saw it. I've failed the second boss twice but have beat it way more often. But I've failed the third boss like 4 times at this point, still haven't beat it. I'm sure once I quit spreading myself thin and focus more upgrades on a single character I'll be able to get it, but it definitely is harder than the first boss.

[Dusklite]

Originally posted by Telzen:

Originally posted by Shrimp:

Now i can't say for sure since i haven't progressed out, but alot of people are saying the subsequent bosses don't get much more challenging, and that they maybe actually get easier.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all about the first boss being difficult because you're character is weaker; But to me this just seems like poor design on the difficulty scaling. Why would a game be laid out so that the very first segment of the game is where you have to grind to even progress through multiple runs and upgrades and you use that power you gained there to ease through the rest of the game on cruise control?

You put the spike in the first section of the game and then after that its all downhill? (supposedly** i dont know its just what others are saying***)

Later bosses are harder, not sure what OP is talking about. I've only failed the first boss the first time I saw it. I've failed the second boss twice but have beat it way more often. But I've failed the third boss like 4 times at this point, still haven't beat it. I'm sure once I quit spreading myself thin and focus more upgrades on a single character I'll be able to get it, but it definitely is harder than the first boss.

As I said, Arista (third boss) is a bit of a filter for some. :)

I found Arista works better if you don't take as much time. Insofar, this boss is a bit of an outlier for me. Arista has the tendency to deny a lot of space to the player by moving poison areas, grasping vines to slow you down, AoE spike attacks (patterned and targeted) and adds that have slow moving long range attacks which further limit where the player can move.

You may take your time with the boss in the first phases but once you trigger the last one (look at the markers on the boss HP bar to see them) I found it best to just lay on the damage quickly and mana costs be damned.

Unless it's just NG0 and you play as a melee tank (e.g. Paladin, Warrior, Warlock). With some specific minor upgrades you can literally hug that boss as well, wail on it with a pointy or sharp stick of your choosing and then shrug about it and move on.

[Telzen]

Originally posted by Dusklite:

(look at the markers on the boss HP bar to see them)

I didn't even notice them. I'll have to look at it more next time and see how far I'm getting into the fight, thanks.

Edit: Funny enough on my next try as Wizard I beat Arista and then got to the next boss and beat it on my first try. The 4th boss has such a big arena that kiting it is a joke as ranged. Ended up getting instagibed as soon as I entered courts 2 though.

[badger vortex]

it's not an uncommon trend in game design, often the 1st boss is unusually hard simply because your character is so weak. especially true of a game that wants you to grind out minor stat boosts over a long time and unlock things over multiple runs