Am I the only returning player/enjoyer of HOHW 1 who's feelin scammed?

[http://www.stfu.gov]

I'll start this off with saying that at the moment I'm financially in a spot where spending $20 on a game is something I do in truly hoping I get my money's worth-- & I fully anticipated this game to be well worth the $20: based on how much time and enjoyment I got out of the last game.

I know Steam will refund you within reason (if you feel entitled to one and play a game less than 2hrs) but I genuinely feel like it took me just beyond that amount of time to realize with certainty that this game is virtually a carbon copy of the 1st one-- with a new artistic direction being the only change they bothered to make. "new artistic direction" being the words I choose to describe it, because saying "better graphics" would, in my opinion, not be the case.

And I know, yadda yadda, another whiny unappreciative gamer sounding whiny and unnappreciative. But may I say, I've played my fair share of sub-par sequels and kept my mouth shut. But for some reason this sequel in particular truly feels scammy and like I've become what you might call a "sucker".

Also, I'm a little heart broken :'( </3
Had high hopes for this game. Loved the 1st one. Tbh I think I actually loved Hammerwatch the original even more. Was really stoked for this game to be released... and I somehow feel like I've already reached the point where I'll end up playing some other game next time I hop on, and that this game has already begun to fall into Steam Library Purgatory. Shucks.

But hey if you've never played the game @ all before, you'll probably have a good bit of fun. Hope you noobies enjoy yourselves :-)

[http://www.stfu.gov]

ALSO-- if anyone feels like I'm am wrong/sorely mistaken, PLEASE let me know how & in what way so I can come back to it with some enthusiasm. I truly hope to be proven wrong on this one.

[iHaku]

i think it's alright. the game is 50-60% more expensive give or take but has much higher quality art everywhere. there are more options, more tiles, equipment is a new mechanic and a new set of trinkets/sets and new skills + class specialisations.

additionally, i think it's extremely important to keep in mind that HoH1 did in fact not launch with many of its mechanics and content (like the magic anvil and everything related to it, was added in version 73).
neither HoH1 nor HoH2 are live service games, so it isnt fair to compare week 1 of release to all the stuff that was added over the first 2 years of its release, the majority of which did make it into the HoH2. if we go into this with the expectancy that some new content will be added as well then i think that the price tag is perfectly reasonable.

[barnstar]

With regards to how similar it is to HOH1, the devs are damned if they do, damned if they don't! If they changed the formula too much it wouldn't be HOH, if they don't change enough then people will complain about just buying the same game again (works for cod though! : ) Personally, it feels different enough to me.

[barnstar]

Also, I put almost two hundred hours into the original, and the sequel has a demo, so buying it at launch is a no brainer for me. It could have cost a lot more and still have been good value for money. Hopefully they will have some cool DLC and new characters to come etc. All of which I will probably buy, unless it is horse armour! : )

[rektnarok]

No.

[Rauckus]

I mean, if $20 (I bought it for $15 on sale) is the breaking point on whether or not you enjoy a game, then may I suggest you find a better use of your time? Seems like you're paying money to hurt yourself.

[IchBinBartlos]

so it took me like 40hours to complete the game the first time, and i dont have averything unlocked yet, i paid roughly 15€, which means around 38cents per gaming hour so far and i had a blast, and many more hours are to come for me, thats one of the best ratios i had in a long time with games,

it feels different enough and similar enough for me, that it feels for me really like a good sequel.

i have to admit, that the new art style was a little weird at the start but after i disabled the moving foliage i adjusted pretty fast...

so, all in all, im satisfied and hope they do good, so i can get some sweet content updates

[DJDiceZ]

HoH2 too is pretty good (especially in a vacuum) but there are certain things that don't feel quiiiite as good as the original, with the progression, combat, spells, etc... Some others, like the technical quality of visuals, are amazing.

I'm not feeling scammed yet, i'm having a good time, but your sentiment is 100% correct, my main gripe with the game so far is that it has reused far too much content from HoH1 without innovating some new stuff. If i want to play HoH1 i can play HoH1, give me a new game that either is a major upgrade to HoH1, or a brand new game with everything feeling fresh and fun to discover instead of "yep, it's that one class... that one enemy... that one spell... that one trinket... town building is exactly the same... yawn"

Here it feels like neither a major upgrade or a much better sequel, this is closer to a sidegrade and it's wasted potential when it could be so much more. They've had so much time and experience, so it's disappointing that they didn't go for a bigger scale at the very least. Makes it feel like it might have been better to just give HoH1 more content. The whole advantage of reusing content in a sequel is that you can make the sequel much more content rich, but they seemingly didn't. Worse yet, some great mechanics/content from the first game have seemingly not made a comeback (yet).

Still, everything that's new is pretty cool. If they keep adding more content, it could turn the game from "fine" to "amazing" with significant content updates. I welcome paid DLCs, but they gotta be decent expansions at the least. Not just a character with a few extra crumbs here and there.

[http://www.stfu.gov]

So I guess the conversation being focused on the price tag is my own fault for leading with that. I meant it more as a " right now I'm broke and normally I wouldn't piss and moan about a 20 dollar game"

After giving it more thought, I think the whole "feeling scammed" thing is coming from the exact opposite side things. The reason I feel scammed isn't because I paid 20ish dollars and expect a 60 AAA-Title, and 100s of hours of content just because-- Its actually because I LOVE and revere the previous games SO MUCH! and the Hammerwatch "formula" so much, that I had really just hoped to see something wonderful and fresh and improved.

Yes I do totally agree it must be tough as a developer to tow the line just right to where its not too different/not too similar. But then again there have been a great handful of other sequels released in the exact same situation as HW, and in the same exact game type/price point/budget wheelhouse. Some of my all-time favorite games are actually sequels to Indie/Small(ish) studio Roguelite/like/etc:

Rogue Legacy 2 - slaaaaps

Spelunky 2 - still as much of VERY frustrating controller smashing experience as the first one, but still such an improvement in the best ways

Risk of Rain 2 (or Risk of Rain Returns) - These guys did BOTH change things a lot and THEN kept it similar and both are dope.

Hades 2. Okay that's all I got. But perfect templates for exactly what I had dreamed this game could be.

*iHaku & other made a very fair point though about how many game changing improvements often and hopefully do take place periodically, hopefully molding a decent base game into something worth nerding tf out on

Also, I play single player by myself almost exclusively cause i'm a loner in the gaming community, so I will happily chalk a lot of the missed changes on my part due to thalt

[Medicles]

I think its fine for the price and there is an obvious improvement in at least art and gameplay over the first one.

[desrtfox071]

I can understand that someone might feel disappointed in a game, but to say "scammed" is pretty childish.

It's not like there aren't tons of resources to see what the game is about, how it looks, and how it plays without even spending any money - let's plays, reviews, guides, forums, etc.

So, if anyone scammed you (OP) it was yourself.

Hyperbole just waters down the argument.


As far as I'm concerned the game seems fine and will surely progress from here.

[Draconic Creature]

Scammed is a bit strong, but yeah it's a little... limp atm, I feel. Sluggish runs and lengthy leveling even with combo sphere.

[DJDiceZ]

Originally posted by Draconic Creature:

Scammed is a bit strong, but yeah it's a little... limp atm, I feel. Sluggish runs and lengthy leveling even with combo sphere.

The runs in HoH1 could get a bit too short and samey tbh, if there are optional ways to have longer runs, alternate paths/areas, secret levels or such, it would make the game quite a lot cooler. Doesn't seem like the generation is that much more varied though.

[Keyo]

it would be nice if so many skills werent so bugged + no info about it anywhere ... the devs most know ... why not address it and give list on what theyre working on .. id avoid wasting skill points or playing certain characters until theyre fixed (ahem, Rogue and no dodge)

[Outline]

I think a large portion of whatever letdown you're feeling is comparing all the features HoH1 had after two expansions and many years of tweaking to this thing in initial release state. Give this the same amount of time, content additions, bugfixes, etc. and I feel there's a better game than the first to be had... it's just going to take a while to get there.