Justice Paladin sucks

[Swordz]

I really like justice paladin in theory, and i just adore Judgement's fire-and-forget attitude
But boy, does it suck that his passive has no effect on bosses whatsoever.

I mean, fully working disarms or silence procs on bosses would be OP, but also, no effects from orb skills whatsoever? No shackles or even a bonus damage modifier on a silenced boss? Now that just sucks, justice pala looks like the worst option mechanics-wise, half of his unique kit does nothing on the hardest content of the game, ffs
I wish it could get buffed, so at least shackles and damage bonus would work on bosses!

Just needed to get it off my chest lol

[chris183]

i think justice paladin could be good with some spell damage and cooldown reduction, im not sure how it would compare to other builds/classes though, its really satisfying to play when you have it chaining from group to group and continuing to keep dropping hammers on things

also you do get the 50%? damage bonus skill to targets that are silenced and disarmed

i also like to lean more towards builds that are either weapon based or just have passives that can work for me cause casting so many skills all the time hurts my hands

i still like it as my favorite paladin build but i haven't done higher than ng1 completed yet cause im doing all classes instead of rushing one for now

[noah9942]

Originally posted by chris183:

i think justice paladin could be good with some spell damage and cooldown reduction, im not sure how it would compare to other builds/classes though, its really satisfying to play when you have it chaining from group to group and continuing to keep dropping hammers on things

also you do get the 50%? damage bonus skill to targets that are silenced and disarmed

i also like to lean more towards builds that are either weapon based or just have passives that can work for me cause casting so many skills all the time hurts my hands

i still like it as my favorite paladin build but i haven't done higher than ng1 completed yet cause im doing all classes instead of rushing one for now

it's easily the worst subclass for paladin. issue is that you can easily get enough cooldown/cast speed to have 100% uptime, and any more is totally wasted (and it's VERY easy to hit 100%), meaning you get way more value from the other spells right off the bat.
add on to that the other spells, namely divine pillars, have way better orb upgrades, and the hammer is just bad.

[Why can't Light win ASL]

The active is pretty bad, it deals decent damage but only having one active at a time caps its potential pretty quickly.

The passive I actually think is really good, I understand that not working on bosses is a downside but bosses are the least dangerous part of the game and I like it a lot for everything else, it's actually super effective when fighting regular monster because it procs constantly meaning a lot of monster dont do anything for periods of time, the shackles are decent just because immobilize effects are so incredibly powerful and the bonus damage against silenced and disarmed enemies is almost good but too inconsistent.

It is my preffered choice but I play as DEX with Dual daggers focusing on weapon damage which is different from basicly every other Paladin Ive seen so far, I just think the STR sucks compared to the DEX gear and the Dual Daggers have crazy mobility built in, I would never recommend a player play STR instead of DEX.

[Mawdesty]

Radiance would be the worst one, imo. A spell with a 7 second cooldown but 2 second charge time. No real way to speed up a charge time, I think, and I assume it's 700 base damage at full charge. Close range too. Justice hammer at least got some distance to it. Split damage type of fire when all the other paladin stuff is physical and no inherent damage boost, so using the new spell is really hard to encourage when lay on hands and blessed strike do so much work. And a passive that is the same strength at rank one as it is at capped rank. The only difference being the duration of stack time, which full refreshes on any cast. So 5 seconds or 7, it makes no difference.

The skill orbs are big nothings too. Fire penetration and resistance per Inner Flame stack or bonus fire damage to weapons per inner flame stack, so weapon build paladin I suppose. And for Immolate, you can have it give you extra stacks of Inner Flame. 7 is the cap so no real need. Why want a single spell to cap your stacks? They'll just be full the whole floor anyway. Or have it fire an additional projectile of a lance of flame. Up to half damage of the spell. Probably best of the bunch as a damage up but avoiding charge might mean it does little damage. Radiance needs a rework. Justice was incredibly powerful compared to that. Though Divine paladin looks easily to be the best one.

[chris183]

well hopefully justice can get some love in upcoming patches if needed, also the patch notes did mention that str and weapon attacks are getting looked at for next patch so that's a good thing

i always feel like there's one person out there probably doing great with the build (or any build) but maybe dex and dual daggers is the way and im hoping that changes where people can play str based or use str weapons instead of having to default to int or dex stuff at higher ng's

[Why can't Light win ASL]

Originally posted by chris183:

well hopefully justice can get some love in upcoming patches if needed, also the patch notes did mention that str and weapon attacks are getting looked at for next patch so that's a good thing

i always feel like there's one person out there probably doing great with the build (or any build) but maybe dex and dual daggers is the way and im hoping that changes where people can play str based or use str weapons instead of having to default to int or dex stuff at higher ng's

DEX should always be the highest damage because while STR gear has extra armor DEX gear has extra damage stats, in a balanced game DEX should still be doing more damage.

Patches can make STR better but DEX should always do the most damage and since DEX also has mobility tied to it with for example Dual Daggers and MS on boots that is just another things making DEX better, mobility is almost always the best choice since its both DPS and Defense.

The expectation shouldnt be that STR builds are as good or better at dealing damage as DEX builds

[noah9942]

str builds can work, their damage output is just sooooo much lower than int builds. like you'll be spending 20+ minutes on a boss as a str build, while and int build will clear in 2 minutes. that also means far less attacks you need to dodge, because most attacks will 2 shot you at that point, regardless of your armor

as for dex, again i havent seen many people using that on a paladin. yeah it's better than str because scaling crits is strong, but weapon builds in general are worse than spell builds.

also, using 2h weapons, be it staffs, heavy weapons, or dual daggers, is an uncommon choice for all builds because you lose the offhand slot that can hold additional enchantments.

[Mistuh von Frothy Chutzpah]

Originally posted by Why can't Light win ASL:

Originally posted by chris183:

well hopefully justice can get some love in upcoming patches if needed, also the patch notes did mention that str and weapon attacks are getting looked at for next patch so that's a good thing

i always feel like there's one person out there probably doing great with the build (or any build) but maybe dex and dual daggers is the way and im hoping that changes where people can play str based or use str weapons instead of having to default to int or dex stuff at higher ng's

DEX should always be the highest damage because while STR gear has extra armor DEX gear has extra damage stats, in a balanced game DEX should still be doing more damage.

Patches can make STR better but DEX should always do the most damage and since DEX also has mobility tied to it with for example Dual Daggers and MS on boots that is just another things making DEX better, mobility is almost always the best choice since its both DPS and Defense.

The expectation shouldnt be that STR builds are as good or better at dealing damage as DEX builds

None of the Paladin skills scale with Dexterity. Don't waste your time with that.

If you're wanting a "melee attack" build, maybe you could try building around Conviction - Zeal upgrades, which is dependent on Spell Power (Strength), Spell Crit Chance (Int), Spell Crit Damage (Int), Mana (Focus), Attack Speed, and Physical Damage. A 2H Axe would probably work well with that, given its second ability.

[Why can't Light win ASL]

Originally posted by Mistuh von Frothy Chutzpah:

None of the Paladin skills scale with Dexterity. Don't waste your time with that.

If you're wanting a "melee attack" build, maybe you could try building around Conviction - Zeal upgrades, which is dependent on Spell Power (Strength), Spell Crit Chance (Int), Spell Crit Damage (Int), Mana (Focus), Attack Speed, and Physical Damage. A 2H Axe would probably work well with that, given its second ability.

DEX gives access to the best gear for weapon attack builds and gives crit and crit damage for weapon attacks. If you want to scale weapon attacks DEX is the best way to do it.

[Mistuh von Frothy Chutzpah]

Originally posted by Why can't Light win ASL:

Originally posted by Mistuh von Frothy Chutzpah:

None of the Paladin skills scale with Dexterity. Don't waste your time with that.

If you're wanting a "melee attack" build, maybe you could try building around Conviction - Zeal upgrades, which is dependent on Spell Power (Strength), Spell Crit Chance (Int), Spell Crit Damage (Int), Mana (Focus), Attack Speed, and Physical Damage. A 2H Axe would probably work well with that, given its second ability.

DEX gives access to the best gear for weapon attack builds and gives crit and crit damage for weapon attacks. If you want to scale weapon attacks DEX is the best way to do it.

If you're wanting weapon attack builds, Paladin's the wrong class. Suggesting otherwise is trying to force a build into existence.

[Why can't Light win ASL]

Originally posted by Mistuh von Frothy Chutzpah:

Originally posted by Why can't Light win ASL:

DEX gives access to the best gear for weapon attack builds and gives crit and crit damage for weapon attacks. If you want to scale weapon attacks DEX is the best way to do it.

If you're wanting weapon attack builds, Paladin's the wrong class. Suggesting otherwise is trying to force a build into existence.

I guess I am forcing a build into existence, I don't like the Paladin spell damage options so I play a weapon attack build and it works, Paladin doesnt have any good damage support for weapon attacks but does have a lot of sustain and mitigation so you can focus more on damage because you dont have to worry as much about surviving.