Design Discussion - Does "Leveling" affect anything, really?

[TonyTheTGR]

I do see how you have to grind one level per dungeon before you enter it - but apart from that... I'm wondering if leveling has any relevance in the game's progression, other than numbers just increasing arbitraritly. The enemies level with the player (and stay in a pretty constant -1 to +3 range, generally) and it's not like they do any new or different things.

Dying and winning both just regen the world at the player's current level, so... I'm just wondering if this exists only for the sake of locking/unlocking the dungeons, and that the numbers involved don't really have a lot of bearing on the gameplay experience. Is it just me?

[MERT]

You unlock new sticker slots.2 slot for body and sword,4 slot for head and arm.

[TheGlecter]

I have the feel that your level is a way the game has to slowly reveal all its content, instead of throwing everything at your face in your very first playthrough. I remember heavy knights not spawning at all until I reached level 10 or so, and similar for other monsters (and maybe dungeon traps too). The game slowly becomes more challenging every playthrough (no matter if you win or lose), which I think it is also tied to your level somehow... which is pretty awesome!

However, I think that disguising that feature under a traditional level-up RPG mechanic was not a good idea. Leveling up just to see how everything around you levels up aswell is a total letdown and it feels completely pointless. The feeling of seriously outleveling some enemies could have been great and it might even have been useful to speed up some early parts of the game and remove some of the frustration that comes from repetition.

I dunno... some of the design decisions of this game look really weird to me, but at the same time it seems that there's a reason for them to be the way they are... O_o

[Raditude]

I'm not a fan of being locked out of every dungeon until I grind a level. Given the time limit, it kind of throws off the pacing of the game for me.

[TreasureCat]

It seems to me like the idea isn't to force the player to grind out levels by aimlessly killing a bunch of enemies, but rather to encourage the player to spend some time each run exploring the grottos, completing the sidequests, and clearing the key dungeons. If you do this, the leveling happens organically in the process and you don't find yourself having to grind to open the main dungeons.

That said, nothing in the game communicates that at all. In fact, players are given the exact opposite impression because the first thing Puku does is point you at the toy dungeons and plop one on your map. The game doesn't do or say anything to imply that it would be a good idea to go exploring first. It also makes sure to let the player know they will get their first real subweapon from in there, which of course they will want if they just started.

And then apart from the communication being a problem, there's the fact that not all players will want to go exploring the world first every time they play. This is especially true if they're on their nth playthrough and have seen what the world has to offer, and is compounded even further if they already have an arsenal of toys and stickers carried over from prior cycles.

I get where the design decision is coming from (I think, it would be nice to hear the developer explain the rationale), but it's very badly communicated and undermines player agency in a way that is frustrating.

[Raditude]

I guess I get your point. Maybe I'll start trying to explore more instead of trying to get to the dungeon as quickly as possible. As you said, it kind of seems to be the opposite of what the player is encouraged to do.

[DeathHug]

Originally posted by TreasureCat:

It seems to me like the idea isn't to force the player to grind out levels by aimlessly killing a bunch of enemies, but rather to encourage the player to spend some time each run exploring the grottos, completing the sidequests, and clearing the key dungeons. If you do this, the leveling happens organically in the process and you don't find yourself having to grind to open the main dungeons.

That said, nothing in the game communicates that at all. In fact, players are given the exact opposite impression because the first thing Puku does is point you at the toy dungeons and plop one on your map. The game doesn't do or say anything to imply that it would be a good idea to go exploring first. It also makes sure to let the player know they will get their first real subweapon from in there, which of course they will want if they just started.

And then apart from the communication being a problem, there's the fact that not all players will want to go exploring the world first every time they play. This is especially true if they're on their nth playthrough and have seen what the world has to offer, and is compounded even further if they already have an arsenal of toys and stickers carried over from prior cycles.

I get where the design decision is coming from (I think, it would be nice to hear the developer explain the rationale), but it's very badly communicated and undermines player agency in a way that is frustrating.

I agree with the leveling up organically part. The problem with that is you have to find the hidden dungeons first, which can lead to wasted time if you can't unlock them or find them.

[TreasureCat]

Originally posted by DeathHug:

I agree with the leveling up organically part. The problem with that is you have to find the hidden dungeons first, which can lead to wasted time if you can't unlock them or find them.

I'm not sure wasted time is really an issue. I mean what else is that timer even really for except exploring? It only goes down when you're on the overworld, and the only things to do there are either explore for dungeons/grottos/npc's or fight random enemies.

Since you can fight as many enemies as you want when you're in a dungeon (and since it seems like the point seems is for you not to grind in the overworld anyway) that really just means the timer is five days of exploration time. It's true that you're bound to run across key dungeons or toy-locked grottos that you can't get into at first pass, but it's not a big deal because if you keep going you'll find ones that aren't gated (and you might find an npc to give you a key).

Again, no way for a player to actually know all this without having done it "wrong" a bunch of times and specifically gone off script from what the game encourages you to do, which is unfortunate.