Comparing the SNES translation and NDS translations

[Turbo Nozomix]

Feel free to post other full conversation segments from each version to compare them.

Here's the dialog between Frog and Magus before the battle with Magus.

NDS translation:

Frog: Magus!

Magus: Ah, that frog of so many days ago.
How have you fared since last we met?

Frog: Well enough. I owe you my gratitude. This form has been a blessing in disguise. Without it...
There are things I'd never have obtained!

Magus: Ah, the Masamune... Then you've come for me.
Let us hope no others interfere this time.

Magus: Again, the bitter black winds begin to howl.
Very well.

Magus: Come, if it is death you seek!

Original SNES translation:

Frog: Magus!!

Magus: I... it's that stupid frog! Kissed any princesses lately?!

Frog: I rather enjoy this form. And I oweth it all to you!
I have something for you!

Magus: Ah...!
The Masamune!!!
I bet you're just dying to use it!

Magus: The black wind begins to blow...

Magus: Okay... give me your best shot...
If you're prepared for the void!

For this scene, the SNES version is powerful, witty, and playful, and Magus' 'black wind' line and threat to Frog are ominous-sounding.

The NDS version, by comparison, is sterile, flat-sounding, and verbose without effect, making it feel a bit pretentious. Magus' 'black winds' and 'if it is death you seek' lines are not nearly as ominous-sounding.


Here's a further comment I made later in this thread, on this section of the game's dialog:

Also, in the NDS version, Magus says to Frog:

"Magus: Ah, the Masamune... Then you've come for me.
Let us hope no others interfere this time."

That line is pretty dumb because Frog is visibly with two other people who are armed and in battle stance, and who are powerful enough to make it through Magus' castle, and who do in-fact help Frog in his battle with Magus. So, it was really not in-tune with the situation for the NDS script to say 'let's hope no others interfere this time', when others are visibly on-hand to help Frog against Magus and do indeed participate in the imminent battle.

So, that is an example of the NDS translation being clueless and bumbling where the SNES version makes no such mistake.

And the NDS translation has many moments where it is similarly clumsy and not self-aware.

The SNES version, though is very self-aware in its chosen expressions.

[June]

Replace "witty" with "silly" and your description is much more accurate. Personally, I don't much like either translation and would much rather read it in the original Japanese. (It is AWESOME that Chrono Trigger, unlike many Steam ports, retains that option XD)

[Turbo Nozomix]

Originally posted by Thurhame:

Replace "witty" with "silly" and your description is much more accurate. Personally, I don't much like either translation and would much rather read it in the original Japanese. (It is AWESOME that Chrono Trigger, unlike many Steam ports, retains that option XD)

No, it isn't silly. Witty was the correct choice of word.

[Turbo Nozomix]

One place where the NDS version is a bit more fleshed out is the singing of a song to Magus in the cathedral.

SNES version:

Oh... dearest Magus...
Your flashing eyes... like stars...
And flowing hair...
Like waves atop the sea...

No sad sunny day nor any frightful
bright place can get us down
as long as you're near...
There's nothing to fear...

Magus, oh Magus
Our Hero, Magus

NDS version:

Oh great Magus, Magus the Great
Your eyes are brighter than the stars
Your flowing hair, like waves atop the sea

Even those miserable sunny days abate
When we feel your seething hate
Even brightened halls hold no fear
Just so long as you are near

Magus, oh Lord Magus
You are our Fiendlord and Savior

However, when it comes to Gato's sung poem at the Milennial fair, I think that the SNES version's translation flows a lot more smoothly than the NDS version's translation:

SNES version:

The call me Gato
I have metal joints
Beat me up
And earn 15 silver points

I lost you won
Here's 15 points
Now wasn't that fun!?

NDS version:

They call me Gato
I have metal joints
If you can beat me up
You'll earn 15 points

Oh, no, I have lost
And it seems you've won
Here are your 15 points
Now wasn't that fun?

[Turbo Nozomix]

A lot of the text in other places is almost identical in both version - but often with some small touches in the SNES version that makes it more personal and vibrant compared to the NDS version.

Here's an example of the dialog when leaving 600 A.D. for the first time and returning to 1000 A.D., after rescuing Leene from the cathedral.

SNES version:

Marle: How do we get home?

Lucca: Your Highness, er,
Princess... we...

Marle: Please call me Marle!

Lucca: Well then, Marle...
Observe!

Marle: Wow!
Lucca!
You're amazing!

Lucca: Ain't it the truth!
Oh, um... I mean...

Marle: Enough with the false modesty! You have a real gift! I would trade my royal ancestry for your genius in a heartbeat!

Lucca: Well, if you say so...
Anyway, I call this thing a "Gate."
It's a kind of portal, that takes you to the same location in a different era.
Gates are very unstable, so I used the principal behind my Telepod device...
... to create a "Gate Key."
Now we can use them as we please.

Marle: But why did this Gate suddenly appear?

Lucca: Either the Telepod had something to do with it,
or... something else made it.

Marle: This is getting pretty weird.
Let's at least head back to our own time!

Lucca: All right!
Coming, Crono?


Back in 1000 A.D.:

Marle: Phew!
We're back!
Crono, Lucca, why don't you come home with me to the castle?
I'd like you to come over for dinner!

Lucca: Sorry for putting you through all that, Marle.

Marle: Are you joking?
That's the most fun I've had in months!
And I have some new friends, too!

Lucca: Crono, be a gentleman and take her home.
I've got some work to do.

Marle: See you soon, Lucca!
Will you escort me home, Crono?

NDS version:

Marle: So, how do we get home?

Lucca: Well, Your Highness, we-

Marle: Please, call me Marle!

Lucca: Well then, Marle...
Observe!

Marle: Whoa!
Lucca, you're amazing!

Lucca: Hee hee hee!
S-sorry, I should be more humble in front of-

Marle: Enough already! I'm a princess, but what's that mean? I can't do anything special.
But you--you're incredible!
I'd trade my name for your genius in a heartbeat!

Lucca: Well, if you say so...
Anyway, I call these distortions "Gates."
They're basically portals to the same location in a different time.
But Gates are unstable--that's why they appear and disappear all the time. So I used the principle behind my Telepod device...
... to create this Gate Key!
It's what's locking the Gate in place.

Marle: But why did this Gate suddenly appear in the first place?

Lucca: Either the Telepod had something to do with it, or something... else made it.

Marle: This is starting to sound complicated.
Why don't we head back to our own time for now?

Lucca: All right!
Coming, Crono?


Back in 1000 A.D.:

Marle: Whew!
We made it!
Crono, Lucca!
Why don't you come back with me to the castle?
It would give me a chance to thank you properly for everything!

Lucca: I'm really sorry for putting you through all this, Marle.

Marle: What are you talking about?
It was the most fun I've had in months!
And I made new friends, too!

Lucca: Crono, be a gentleman and take her home.
I still need to do a little more snooping into why that Gate appeared.

Marle: See you again soon, Lucca!
Well, Crono, are you ready to escort me home?

The NDS version is just a bit more bland and less personable than the SNES version.


SNES:

Lucca: Your Highness, er,
Princess... we...

Marle: Please call me Marle!

Lucca: Well then, Marle...
Observe!


NDS:

Lucca: Well, Your Highness, we-

Marle: Please, call me Marle!

Lucca: Well then, Marle...
Observe!

---------------------------

SNES:

Marle: Wow!
Lucca!
You're amazing!

Lucca: Ain't it the truth!
Oh, um... I mean...

Marle: Enough with the false modesty! You have a real gift! I would trade my royal ancestry for your genius in a heartbeat!

Lucca: Well, if you say so...
Anyway, I call this thing a "Gate."


NDS:

Marle: Whoa!
Lucca, you're amazing!

Lucca: Hee hee hee!
S-sorry, I should be more humble in front of-

Marle: Enough already! I'm a princess, but what's that mean? I can't do anything special.
But you--you're incredible!
I'd trade my name for your genius in a heartbeat!

Lucca: Well, if you say so...
Anyway, I call these distortions "Gates."

---------------------------

SNES:

Marle: But why did this Gate suddenly appear?

Lucca: Either the Telepod had something to do with it,
or... something else made it.

Marle: This is getting pretty weird.
Let's at least head back to our own time!


NDS:

Marle: But why did this Gate suddenly appear in the first place?

Lucca: Either the Telepod had something to do with it, or something... else made it.

Marle: This is starting to sound complicated.
Why don't we head back to our own time for now?

---------------------------

SNES:

Lucca: Sorry for putting you through all that, Marle.

Marle: Are you joking?
That's the most fun I've had in months!
And I have some new friends, too!


NDS:

Lucca: I'm really sorry for putting you through all this, Marle.

Marle: What are you talking about?
It was the most fun I've had in months!
And I made new friends, too!



The SNES version tends to be more emotionally-intelligent all-around, and to be a bit more invigorated with excitement and colourful personality.

[Apoc]

In the SNES version Magus sounds like a highschool bully in this example. I guess as a kid it sounded cool but now I can see why they used a different translation for the DS. I wish they would have kept the old english for Frog in the DS translation. It lost some charm here and there but overall the DS translation seems more solid.

[Turbo Nozomix]

Originally posted by Apoc:

In the SNES version Magus sounds like a highschool bully in this example. I guess as a kid it sounded cool but now I can see why they used a different translation for the DS. I wish they would have kept the old english for Frog in the DS translation. It lost some charm here and there but overall the DS translation seems more solid.

In the SNES version, Magus sounds like a cocky and condescending bully - like Vegeta in Dragon Ball Z. He also sounds like someone who actually wields real power and believes in his capabilities.

In the NDS version, Magus sounds like one of the outcast nerds in high school that played with Magic cards and talked pretentiously and used nerd fantasy expressions to compensate for their feelings of lacking actual power.


Which of those two personalities do you think Magus is meant to be in Chrono Trigger at the time of the battle in his castle?

I think it's clear he's supposed to be the cocky condescending bully.

And I don't know how things were in your high school, but high school bullies are normally portrayed as intellectually ineffectual, whereas SNES Magus' lines and intellectually poignant. Whereas NDS Magus' lines at this part don't contain any witticism, and read like they're reaching just to find a way to finish the sentence. And "come, if it is death you seek!" is trope-like with no subtle or colourful undertones such as there are in "Okay... give me your best shot... if you're prepared for the void!".

The style of the SNES translation is generally more multi-dimensional and linguistically adept than the style of the NDS translation.

[June]

The NDS translation is generally more accurate to the original Japanese script, which sometimes causes it to sound awkward in English due to the languages' inherent differences (e.g. the above exchange between Lucca and Marle, or Magus not sounding as ominous or impressive as he should).

The SNES translation has a tendency to add stuff like jokes or Glenn's Ye Olde Butchered English, which I suppose might be endearing to some people, but is rather grating to one familiar with the original's powerful personalities and dramatic scenes.

[Marcelo Sampaio]

I don't mind the new translation. I actually like it a bit more, because I find it a bit less gooffy.

Plus, I hate the "ancient" english Frog speaks. I always had issues understanding what he was saying as a teen (considering English is not my promary language).

[zooboo]

It's all a matter of taste.

(but yeah, the DS version's definitely better)

[Turbo Nozomix]

Originally posted by zooboo:

It's all a matter of taste.

(but yeah, the DS version's definitely better)

I think that comparing the dialog side-by-side like this proves that the claim that the NDS translation is better has been just an urban myth. The people who claimed it would be people who played CT for the first time in 2008 and just heard that it was supposedly 'more accurate' to the Japanese, and then crafted a bunch of urban myth rationalizing why that is and how it must mean that it's somehow better than the SNES version.

The NDS version is almost identical to the SNES version. But where it's different, it's pretty consistently worse - lacking connotation, emotion, power, personality, logic, flow...

There's no way that all adds up to being a better translation. The whole idea is here proven to be an urban myth and nothing more. If the NDS version is better in some way, it's inferior in more other ways.

Also, objectively speaking, the NDS translation is rife with grammatical errors.


Here are some examples from what I've already posted showing what are commonly-occurring types of downgrades in the NDS translation:

SNES:

Lucca: Your Highness, er,
Princess... we...

Marle: Please call me Marle!

NDS:

Lucca: Well, Your Highness, we-

Marle: Please, call me Marle!

In the SNES example, Marle's interruption makes more sense because Lucca was fumbling trying to figure out the proper term of address. And Lucca is acting more naturally.

In the NDS version, Lucca and Marle both sound stiff in their expressions. And Marle's interruption sounds more commanding. This whole interaction, like most, is less personable, less expressing of humanness in the NDS version.


SNES:

Marle: You're amazing!

Lucca: Ain't it the truth!
Oh, um... I mean...

Marle: Enough with the false modesty! You have a real gift! I would trade my royal ancestry for your genius in a heartbeat!

NDS:

Marle: Whoa!
Lucca, you're amazing!

Lucca: Hee hee hee!
S-sorry, I should be more humble in front of-

Marle: Enough already! I'm a princess, but what's that mean? I can't do anything special.

This exchange is very natural and smooth-flowing in the SNES version, but is very awkward in the NDS version. For one thing, in the NDS version, "Hee hee hee!" isn't particularly a display of non-modesty. And so, Lucca's follow-up of "S-sorry, I should be more humble in front of-" is a total over-reaction and makes her sound fearful or ashamed and makes the conversation awkward because of it. And then Marle once against sounds commanding and less personable with her "Enough already!" response.

Again in this example, the NDS version is stiffer, less human, and less warm than the SNES' version.


SNES:

Lucca: Well, if you say so...
Anyway, I call this thing a "Gate."

NDS:

Lucca: Well, if you say so...
Anyway, I call these distortions "Gates."

Here, in the NDS version, Lucca refers to the portal as a distortion, without it being established what a distortion is. It sounds like the script is talking outside of the game world's own rationale. If distortions were defined and understood things in the context that Lucca meant them, then what would be the point in coming up with a name for them, like "gates"? They would then already have a name, "distortions".

The script isn't containing itself within the game world's logic in that instance.


SNES:

Marle: But why did this Gate suddenly appear?

Lucca: Either the Telepod had something to do with it,
or... something else made it.

NDS:

Marle: But why did this Gate suddenly appear in the first place?

Lucca: Either the Telepod had something to do with it, or something... else made it.

Here, in the NDS version, the "..." is in the wrong place. It just doesn't make sense after "something".


SNES:

Marle: This is getting pretty weird.
Let's at least head back to our own time!

NDS:

Marle: This is starting to sound complicated.
Why don't we head back to our own time for now?

Marle, once again, sounds more natural in the SNES version, more stiff, sterile, and robotic in the NDS version.

[Turbo Nozomix]

Here's comparison of the dialog at the summit of Death Peak, when resurrecting Crono:


SNES:

Marle: So, this is the summit of Death Peak!

All who fear the night and stand against the darkness...
Please give us strength!

NDS

Marle: This is it--the summit of Death Peak.

You who fear the night and stand against the darkness...
Please, give us your strength!

Who is this specific "you" mentioned in the NDS version? Also, asking for strength sounds more fitting than asking for 'their' strength, IMO.



SNES

Lucca: Crono!
The pendant's reacting!

Marle: It, it shattered!!
But...
We've come so far!

Lucca: Don't be sad.
It was silly to think we could get him back...

Marle: Please answer me!
Don't leave me!!!

Marle: Crono--!!

NDS

Lucca: Crono!
The pendant's reacting!

Marle: It... it shattered!
But...
We've come so far!

Lucca: Try not to be upset.
It was silly to think we could get him back.

Marle: Please, answer me.
Don't leave me.

Marle: Crono!

Almost identical between the two translations. The NDS version is, once again and just like everywhere between the two tranlsation, a bit less expressive of heartfelt emotion.


Tansported back to their battle with Lavos


SNES

Marle: Crono...!

Lucca: The Chrono Trigger...
... the Guru's Time Egg...!
And there we all are!
We're back at that instant!

Glenn: Like stone statues.
'Tis eerie...

We'll just exchange the Clone for Crono.

Marle: Crono?
It's Crono...!
Crono?!
You're alive!!!!

Lucca: We've got to hurry!

Glenn: 'Tis an eerie place.
Let us withdraw quickly.


NDS

Marle: Crono...!

Lucca: The Chrono Trigger...
The Guru's Time Egg!

Those... those are our past selves!
We've really back--right at that instant!

Magus: A time freeze...
I never dreamt it possible.

We just need to exchange the doppel doll for Crono.

Marle: Crono?
It's Crono!
Crono, you're alive!

Lucca: We've got to hurry!

Magus: Save the tearful reunions for later!
If we've done all we must, let us be on our way.

Magus:...

Here, there is a difference in which 3rd character was in the party for each example source: Glenn for the SNES example, Magus for the NDS example.

But, other than that, I can simply repeat what I said for the last example: Almost identical between the two translations. The NDS version is, once again and just like everywhere between the two tranlsation, a bit less expressive of heartfelt emotion.


Back on Death Peak


SNES

Marle: Crono!
Welcome back Crono!!

Lucca: I'm so glad you're back, Crono!

Marle: We...
We knew this day would come.

Marle: You mustn't...
You can't do that ever again!

Marle: While you were away...
A lot of things happened.
First, we... and then...
And after that we..., but...
Crono!
Are you even listening?!
There's so much you have to know.


NDS

Marle: Crono!
Oh, Crono, you're back!

Lucca: I'm so glad you're back, Crono!

Marle: We...
We were all waiting for you to come back.

Marle: You can't...
Don't ever leave us like that again!

Marle: A lot of things happened, Crono.
While you were away...
First, we... and then...
And after that I... so we...
But...
Crono! Are you even listening?
There's so much I still have to tell you.

Once again, very similar. The SNES version is a bit more sensible, as the NDS version says "we were all waiting for you to come back" - they weren't waiting, they were actively pursuing getting him back. I think the SNES version sounds more appropriate in other ways, too: "there's so much you have to know" / "there's so much I still have to tell you".


At the End of Time


SNES

Old man: So!
Looks like you were successful!
No, don't thank me. I didn't do a thing. I just gave you a place to begin...
If you really want to thank me, make me a member of your team!
By the way, the Wings of Time has come looking for you.
It seems to have a heart and mind of its own...

NDS

Old Man: So, all went well...
No, don't thank me.
I merely placed a piece upon the board.
It was not my hand that moved it.
If you would thank someone, thank the ones who cared enough to see their friend returned to them.
By the way, the Wings of Time have come looking for you. They seem to have a heart and mind all their own.

Here, the NDS version actually has one of its rare moments of saying something more clever than the SNES version:

"I merely placed a piece upon the board" compared to the SNES' "I didn't do a thing. I just gave you a place to begin..."

Also, the "If you really want to thank me, make me a member of your team!" comment in the SNES version is a bit goofy.

And, yet again, the SNES version conveys more emotion than the NDS version - Gasper shows some excitement in the SNES version like he shares in the CT team's happiness, but he shows none in the NDS version.



Looking at these examples, it raises the question of where is the NDS version possibly 'more accurate' to the Japanese? I don't really see where that's possible, since the translations are mostly identical, other than the lack of personality and expression and absence of emotional intelligence in the NDS version - all of which are things that lower the NDS' script beneath the level of the SNES version's script.

Where Gasper makes a joke saying 'if you really want to thank me, let me join your team!'? Those cases are few and far between. But, instances of the NDS script being clumsy, illogical, sterile, or awkward are a lot more frequent - and in those places where the SNES' script is not those things, the SNES version would, presumably, be closer to the Japanese version since the SNES version is more coherent in those moments (and I'm sure the Japanese version isn't written to be incoherent and clumsy). And, so, I would suspect that the NDS version is less accurate to the Japanese version in at least as many places as it is more accurate.

And, since both translations are, for the most part, basically identical, I don't see any significance in saying that the NDS version is more accurate to the Japanese. Rather, that claim appears to me to be likely urban myth - just like the claim that the NDS translation is better than the SNES translation is proven to have been urban myth - perpetuated by people who first and mostly only played the NDS version of the game and just wanted to enshrine their own personal experience.



By the way, I didn't cherry-pick the 4 game sections that I've compared the translations of. Other than the Magus battle one, which I already had in mind, I simply loaded a "let's play" video of CT and skipped around the video looking for scenes that had large chunks of text, and then used the first 3 that I came across.

[Zeikar]

Pardon me whilst I quote the grammar corrections made in the bugfix romhack

- The grammar bug in a Melchior phrase: BEFORE: "MELCHIOR: This is a very rare!" AFTER: "MELCHIOR: This is very rare!"

BEFORE: "Who's, you ask? King Guardia's, of course!" AFTER : "Whose, you ask? King Guardia's, of course!"

[Turbo Nozomix]

Originally posted by Zeikar:

Pardon me whilst I quote the grammar corrections made in the bugfix romhack

- The grammar bug in a Melchior phrase: BEFORE: "MELCHIOR: This is a very rare!" AFTER: "MELCHIOR: This is very rare!"

BEFORE: "Who's, you ask? King Guardia's, of course!" AFTER : "Whose, you ask? King Guardia's, of course!"

So? There are lots of grammar issues in the NDS version, too. And grammar issues are of lesser importance than having quality messaging.

Originally posted by Thurhame:

The NDS translation is generally more accurate to the original Japanese script, which sometimes causes it to sound awkward in English due to the languages' inherent differences (e.g. the above exchange between Lucca and Marle, or Magus not sounding as ominous or impressive as he should).

The SNES translation has a tendency to add stuff like jokes or Glenn's Ye Olde Butchered English, which I suppose might be endearing to some people, but is rather grating to one familiar with the original's powerful personalities and dramatic scenes.

Thanks for your explaining things. I take it you read Japanese well and are familiar with the Japanese version of CT.

Perhaps then, it's more accurate to say that the NDS version latches on to one aspect of the Japanese version and translates that aspect more directly, with that aspect being literal word-per-word translation.

But the intended meaning of an expression has more significance than the literal word, and getting that meaning across is the purpose for which words are used. So, if the NDS version of CT sacrifices coherent and comparable understood meaning for the sake of literal word-per-word translation, then that's not truly being accurate to the Japanese.

As the SNES version manages to be coherent and natural at the same moments where the NDS version is jarring and disjointed, and as the SNES version is human and feeling where the NDS version is sterile and robotic, I would say that the SNES version has more faithfully translated the meant experience, and that the experience the SNES version gives, with its powerful, poignant, smart, dialog has got to be more releatable to what would be experienced if playing the Japanese version with its "powerful personalities and dramatic scenes" that you describe.

[Zeikar]

Originally posted by Turbo Nozomix:

Originally posted by Zeikar:

Pardon me whilst I quote the grammar corrections made in the bugfix romhack

- The grammar bug in a Melchior phrase: BEFORE: "MELCHIOR: This is a very rare!" AFTER: "MELCHIOR: This is very rare!"

BEFORE: "Who's, you ask? King Guardia's, of course!" AFTER : "Whose, you ask? King Guardia's, of course!"

There are lots of grammar issues in the NDS version, too.

Can you provide examples?

[Turbo Nozomix]

Originally posted by Zeikar:

Originally posted by Turbo Nozomix:

There are lots of grammar issues in the NDS version, too.

Can you provide examples?

I provided a couple in my above posts.

Here are some from the compared dialog above:

"Lucca: Either the Telepod had something to do with it, or something... else made it."

The "..." should be before "something" and after "or". There wasn't an alternative to "else" to follow "something" and so there's no possible dramatic gain from putting "..." after "something". However, Lucca could have followed up "or" with something more specific, but, in the SNES version, she paused and then after not figuring anything specific simply said "something else".


SNES version:

Lucca: Sorry for putting you through all that, Marle.

Marle: Are you joking?
That's the most fun I've had in months!

NDS version:

Lucca: I'm really sorry for putting you through all this, Marle.

Marle: What are you talking about?
It was the most fun I've had in months!


The SNES version uses "that" to describe the experience they just went through, but have, at the time of that dialog, finished with. The NDS version incorrectly uses present-tense "this" to describe a past and finished situation.

In the SNES version, Marle then correctly responds "That's the most fun I've had".
In the NDS version, Marle says "It was the most fun..." - which wouldn't be a problem if Lucca's dialog in the NDS version had used the correct tense. But, since Lucca in the NDS version used "this" instead of "that", "it was", past tense, is not the matching response to Lucca's present-tense "this" phrasing.

The NDS version is filled with grammatical mis-matches like that.


Also, grammar issues are of lesser importance that having quality and coherent messaging. And the SNES version has more quality and coherent messaging than the NDS version.