How to make the definitive edition of Chrono Trigger

[Turbo Nozomix]

The Steam / mobile version of Chrono Trigger is currently by far the worst version of the game in existence, and a player will not have anywhere near the quality and enjoyable experience playing it that they would just playing the original SNES version.

Below I've detailed what a true definitive edition of Chrono Trigger entails, and then I've listed all the issues with the current Steam / mobile version of CT that I'm aware off, which need to be fixed to bring this version of the game up to a similar quality as the original SNES game.



Chrono Trigger definitive edition features:

- Choose whether to use the original SNES translation, or the NDS translation. This is essential (personally, I can barely stand the NDS translation, it's so sterile and bland compared to the original). When using the original SNES translation, all the original character, item, and location names will be used, as well.

- Includes all the animated cutscenes from the PS1 version of CT, but whether they play or not is an option that can get set in the options menu. If turned off, then none of the cutscenes will play during the game.

- Master Skill mode, which adds a modifier of maybe 12% extra health to opponents and 3% to the amount of damage that they do to the player. This mode is for those of us that have played CT 5 to 15 times before. I think that CT is perfectly balanced to be a challenging game for a first-time playthrough, but that, after playing it maybe twice, it becomes a very easy game.

- Includes the NDS release's bonus content - BUT ONLY AS AN OPTION. Let it be disabled from the main game menu, so the game can be played without it. The NDS bonus content is not up to good quality, and only dilutes the overall quality of the CT experience, IMO. I'd rather play the game without that stuff, though I know that other people like some of its content, like the bestiary. For that reason, I think that the NDS content should be turned off by default.

- Choose from a few different graphics filter settings, or turn off all graphics filters entirely.

- 60 frames per second

- Choose between the original soundtrack mix, and the new soundtrack mix.



Chrono Trigger definitive edition bonuses:

- Includes the Satellaview game Radical Dreamers[en.wikipedia.org] with English translation

- The full CT soundtrack as a download

- Extensive portfolio of hi-res concept and promo artwork for the game, including rare pictures like the pre Toriyama character designs




Here's what vitally needs to be fixed in the current Steam PC version of CT:


Create a proper PC interface that resembles the original SNES CT interface:

- Get rid of the Emoji not supported comment when naming characters.

- Properly integrate naming characters into the game, so that a Win32 window doesn't disgracefully pop up for a character's name to be entered into. Don’t have the game take the player out of the game environment.

- Make the mouse cursor disappear while playing and not moving the mouse.

- Remove the Menu and Map icons from the exploration screen, and the Auto and   buttons from the combat screen.

- Make [Escape] open the game menu.

- Restore the text box window gradients that are in the original SNES CT.

- Replace the text font with a more suitable one, and apply drop-shadow to the text like there is in the original SNES CT.

- Move the Quit menu option from the Settings section of the options menu, and place it somewhere more logical and easier to access.

- Remove all traces of touch-screen functionality in the game when playing the game with keyboard or gamepad.

- Redesign the inventory / skill / character / optione menu system to be better organized and visually cohesive. The SNES menu layout would be an improvement over the current Steam / mobile layout.

- Provide all the original SNES game's menu colour theme options.



Graphics issues that need to be fixed:

- Provide graphics filter and scaling options, and also the option to turn all graphics filters off.

- Make sure the environmental tiles align properly, as they do in the SNES version of CT.

- Restore the original time-portal animation. It's screwed up, or deliberately changed for the worse in the current Steam / mobile version. The wavy coloured lined in the inter-time space are not supposed to all converge into one point in the centre of the screen, with all the sides being empty space.

- Fix the transparency effect on the Mountain of Woe.

- Miscellaneous graphical glitches.



Audio issues that need to be fixed:

- Fix the zone music transitions so that they’re not so abrupt and jarring, but are smooth and gradual, as they are in the original SNES game.

- Provide an option to use either the original soundtrack mix, or the new soundtrack mix (just like the option is there in Final Fantasy X Steam version to select which soundtrack is used for the game).

- Miscellaneous audio issues (such as the lack of reverb in Magus' castle).



Gamepad functionality that needs to be fixed:

- Restore original SNES gamepad control layout (the Run / Walk and Action buttons are reversed in the PC port).

- Make Start button on gamepad pause the game while quieting the music, like in the original SNES CT.

- Fix the button icons in the Settings menu, as they don’t correspond to any gamepad except for the Xbox 360 gamepad. Saying press ‘A’ is meaningless, when the gamepad being used, such as the DualShock 4 gamepad, doesn’t have an ‘A’ button. And an SNES clone gamepad has the 'B' button where the Steam CT says to press the 'A' button.

The PC is not like a console, where there’s only one brand of gamepad used, and so the ‘A’, ‘B’, etc button layouts are universal. There is no universal layout for PC gamepads like that, and so you have to remove the erroneous labelling of buttons in the game menu for the PC release, just like every proper PC game does.



Additional fixes needed in the game:

- Restore the time it takes Marle to buy candy at the fair to the original SNES length of time. I have the impression that it has been reduced quite a bit in the current Steam version of the game. It's supposed to take a while, so that the player might try to run away, and then that's used during the trial of Crono later on.

- Restore the original rat on the catwalk in the future's run speed, as it is in the SNES version of CT. The rat's run speed has been reduced in this current Steam / mobile to make the rat easy to catch while playing on a mobile device's touch screen. Reducing it has spoiled the original intention of a challenge in catching it, when playing with a keyboard or gamepad.

- Miscellaneous bug fixes.


Also, any additional issues brought up in these videos should be addressed:

https://youtu.be/WSQUbJ1yXYY

https://youtu.be/iSq1KunE7Pc

[Turbo Nozomix]

Bump.

[Seraphita]

Inb4 Dzaka whining about your thread because game is perfectly acceptable the way it is now.

But seriously, I like your thread. So much they could have done to make this version the best...

[Turbo Nozomix]

I hope that SE's patch efforts will include a complete re-doing of the UI, and providing an option for the original SNES translation.

A couple of choice subtle screen filters would be nice to (and by choice I do not mean anything like the awful filter that PC CT released with).

[Turbo Nozomix]

Here's another significant issue that has been brought up:

Originally posted by sumolagann:

Originally posted by Gosen:

Yeah, but what can they say? I guess people in marketing haven't even seen this port, just wrote nice things to advertise product and now you can't even sue them, because definitive's definition can be interpreted differently :P The truth is we have to deal with another Square's mobile port :/ That's the main issue. I guess they were too lazy to port DS, since it uses dual screen and they can't go too far with leaving it 1:1 on PC (yet, emoji is okay :P).

The ds version actually introduced the bad color, so they shouldnt have used it either. mobile/steam just made it worse. So really, they should be fixing the game with snes sprites.

you tu.be/GEkRR3Nxmf8?t=341
there is the junkyard with the wrong color since it's an obvious indicator, it's supposed to be blue like this https://i.imgur.com/JaJUIYe.gif

you tu.be/fXvPfFx2INU?t=262
and there is the game having no random pixel issues, but still the wrong colors

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/10/4/1520523399-snes-steam.png
pixelation issue for steam, if you notice there are stray pixels all over with too many colors. typewriter has 6 colors on the keys instead of 2, etc... Also theres a missing pixel on the pot, appears darker than the emulated ds version where you could still say that the wall might be wood, it basically looks like spikes on the wall now, top left of crono's head.

https://i.imgur.com/j8Ivx9Q.png
focused banister if you don't know what i'm talking about.

The colour appears to be messed up and downgraded in the DS / Steam / mobile version.

[Zeikar]

Just give all DS content (yes all the new, extra, bonus contnent), enhance the color and such from the DS version. Choice of graphics (which we have) but improved. Choice of Music and font, including any font on the user's system. UI options, something better than mobile. (They said they are working on this). Then I believe that would be a better version.

[DBZ_KAKAROT]

There's already a definitive edition, and that's the SNES game, the game it was meant to be from DAY1 without all the extra optional BS they decided to add for the DS. I'm currently playing the DS version and I don't see what all the fuss is about, the pixels look the same as the mobile versions and I feel it lost it's original charm with all these unnecessary touchups that people are now expecting more and more, which imo is destroying the original charm the game had in the first place. DS version is only great if you're experiencing it the first time around, but if you played it before it's no better than the mobile versions, and eventually after the fixes this steam version as a first experience. After all these changes people are expecting the game to be like their first experience, whichever device they first experienced it on. Mine was SNES version, I also played the PS1 version but I would like to point out some problems with the DS version that people are claiming the definitive version. First of all I dislike the new UI of the DS version, it's supposed to be touch screen but it sucks without a stylus, it's too small for my fingers and I'm not going to pull out the stylus every time I need to use the menu, it's an unnecessary change for the worse since CT was never meant to be portable or touch screen or dual screen, so 99% I'm just using the buttons get around anyway. Secondly the font is too small and the translation is terrible, the original was way better in both these categories, so again why these unnecessary changes? Also the Arena thing is most useless time consuming nonesense they've added, CT isn't Pokemon, keep that crap out. The cutscenes are a nice touch, but again unnecessay and feel out of place sometimes, honesly it would've been better if they made an anime out of them rather than slapping them onto the game. Lastly I cannot comment on the extra dungeons yet but if they're like the rest of the extra changes, I expect them to be just as unnecessary because I didn't care about Chrono Cross or Radical Dreamers, so to me beating Lavos was the complete self contained experience.

So you want the definite experience? Play the SNES version, I currently bought it again on virtual console to have a legit copy since I sold the SNES years ago. As for the Steam version, the only way they can fix this is to port the SNES copy exactly as it is, however include optional filters that you can turn on or off to make it more HD since virtual console looks way too blurry on HD tv's. Lastly if they want to add the extra dungeons and cutscenes, make them HD as well, then we would have the definitive steam edition, it should be simple enough I don't understand why they're having so much difficulties bringing us the perfect port.

[Zeikar]

That's asking for too many options, and it is 60 FPS for those lucky enough not to have controllers/drivers/whatever not kill it. The NDS translation is fine as are the extras, no need to disable or have a toggle. I agree about graphics options having more there and that would include color temperature, such as warm (more yellow) or cool (more blue), or custom. Why are people against having more weapons or what the weapons are named? I know many will disagree with me and say there should be no DS content at all, but "Definitive Edition" would take ALL DS content and add more, including all cutscenes and bonuses and include extended graphical options for SNES or "NEW" sprites, color temperature, UI choices, filter choices (or no filter), and font choices. More options opens up to more people. That would make the most people happy. Though if you want the SNES version, go play the SNES version. If you want PS1 version, go play PS1 version. If you want DS version, go play DS version. Etc. Etc. However the PC version should offer a whole lot more than it does, and they promise to fix this situation. A bare minimum effort mobile port is not what should have launched. Now I will be flamed by those who prefer a certain version, I don't care. This is the PC version it should be different from ALL other versions and it COULD HAVE BEEN the best version given more options, just not an overwhelming amount of unnecessary options. That too, I think, will spark controversy.

Edit: Okay maybe a text/script toggle would bring SNES purists onboard also, so that they wouldn't have to rely on mods. Also an option to disable cutscenes for them too, I guess. I don't see toggling on/off DS content as practical though. I guess that could be done, would probably take more code/programming than text toggles. I don't know. We have to accept what they give us one way or the other fortunately or unfortunately. I don't know if they will deliver on the promises concerning future patches or not. We shall see.

[Seraphita]

Well, they better. The "definitive version" would mean that nobody should want to play any other version but this one and I currently want to play any versions but this one. In this way, SE failed horribly and I feel that many share this feeling. CT is not yet lost if they decide to fix it all soon...

[Turbo Nozomix]

Originally posted by Sid2Vicious:

There's already a definitive edition, and that's the SNES game, the game it was meant to be from DAY1 without all the extra optional BS they decided to add for the DS. I'm currently playing the DS version and I don't see what all the fuss is about, the pixels look the same as the mobile versions and I feel it lost it's original charm with all these unnecessary touchups that people are now expecting more and more, which imo is destroying the original charm the game had in the first place.

DS version is only great if you're experiencing it the first time around, but if you played it before it's no better than the mobile versions, and eventually after the fixes this steam version as a first experience.

I agree. The SNES is the best version of the game there is.

My understanding of people liking the NDS version so much is that it was the first and usually only version that they've played, and since CT is such a good game, they associate that goodness with it being the NDS version - which they've heard is closer to the original Japanese translation, and they take that as an additional layer of Confirmation Bias to mean that the NDS version is somehow 'definitive'.

But these people seem to not be aware that 'more technically accurate to the Japanese' involved the script becoming less than it previously was.


But, actually, the NDS version itself was a downgrade over the SNES version, in many ways:

- The NDS translation is less powerful and less heartfelt and charming than the SNES translation. 'More accurate' doesn't matter when it's less quality. That just means that the English SNES version of Chrono Trigger is superior to the Japanese SNES version.

- Also, I think the NDS translation is simply off in at least as many places as the SNES translation is

- the NDS version has lower resolution than the SNES version

- the NDS version has sound issues that aren't in the SNES version

- the NDS version has a worse font than the SNES version

- the NDS version has a worse UI than the SNES version

- the NDS version has worse colouring than the SNES version



And here are some more subjective points, but points that I find to matter to me:

- the NDS version has tacked-on "bonus" content that doesn't maintain the level of fidelity of the SNES version

- the NDS version has the PS1 cutscenes which don't fit with the game as what they show is contradictory to the game. They are also jarring and disrupt the immersive experience, for me. I hope that an option to turn them off will be added to the Steam CT version.

Originally posted by Zeikar:

That's asking for too many options, and it is 60 FPS for those lucky enough not to have controllers/drivers/whatever not kill it. The NDS translation is fine as are the extras, no need to disable or have a toggle.

They aren't, really. If choosing one or the other without providing an option, then the translation should be the SNES version and there shouldn't be any of the bonus content. If you're OK with no option, then that's the way it should go.

[Zeikar]

Originally posted by Turbo Nozomix:

Originally posted by Sid2Vicious:

There's already a definitive edition, and that's the SNES game, the game it was meant to be from DAY1 without all the extra optional BS they decided to add for the DS. I'm currently playing the DS version and I don't see what all the fuss is about, the pixels look the same as the mobile versions and I feel it lost it's original charm with all these unnecessary touchups that people are now expecting more and more, which imo is destroying the original charm the game had in the first place.

DS version is only great if you're experiencing it the first time around, but if you played it before it's no better than the mobile versions, and eventually after the fixes this steam version as a first experience.

I agree. The SNES is the best version of the game there is.

My understanding of people liking the NDS version so much is that it was the first and usually only version that they've played, and since CT is such a good game, they associate that goodness with it being the NDS version - which they've heard is closer to the original Japanese translation, and they take that as an additional layer of Confirmation Bias to mean that the NDS version is somehow 'definitive'.


But, actually, the NDS version itself was a downgrade over the SNES version, in many ways:

- The NDS translation is less powerful and less heartfelt and charming than the SNES translation. 'More accurate' doesn't matter when it's less quality. That just means that the English SNES version of Chrono Trigger is superior to the Japanese SNES version.

- Also, I think the NDS translation is simply off in at least as many places as the SNES translation is

- the NDS version has lower resolution than the SNES version

- the NDS version has sound issues that aren't in the SNES version

- the NDS version has a worse font than the SNES version

- the NDS version has a worse UI than the SNES version

- the NDS version has worse colouring than the SNES version



And here are some more subjective points, but points that I find to matter to me:

- the NDS version has tacked-on "bonus" content that doesn't maintain the level of fidelity of the SNES version

- the NDS version has the PS1 cutscenes which don't fit with the game as what they show is contradictory to the game. They are also jarring and disrupt the immersive experience, for me. I hope that an option to turn them off will be added to the Steam CT version.

Originally posted by Zeikar:

That's asking for too many options, and it is 60 FPS for those lucky enough not to have controllers/drivers/whatever not kill it. The NDS translation is fine as are the extras, no need to disable or have a toggle.

They aren't, really. If choosing one or the other without providing an option, then the translation should be the SNES version and there shouldn't be any of the bonus content. If you're OK with no option, then that's the way it should go.

I'd rather have the option for both than to take any content away.

Having grew up on the SNES version and this is a rare case, I actually saw the DS version as a vast improvement, extras and all. The same cannot be said of FF6 on Steam/Mobile, but this is my opinion anyways.

Also do you dislike the PS1 cutscenes?
Despite load times, I enjoyed PS1 version, I enjoyed every version until now. When this became a mobile port and created the debate/debacle.

I don't see the point in removing content, only in adding to it or giving more options for it.

What I meant by too many options is extra games or difficulties, like including Radical Dreamers or whatever, nothing too outlandish.

[Turbo Nozomix]

Originally posted by Zeikar:

Also do you dislike the PS1 cutscenes?
Despite load times, I enjoyed PS1 version, I enjoyed every version until now. When this became a mobile port and created the debate/debacle.

Yeah, I dislike the PS1 cutscenes for the reason I stated in my previous post:

They tell a separate narrative which contradicts what the player sees happening in the game. It undermines the player experience and immersion with their own played experience. And that's why I'd like an option to turn them off.

I don't see the point in removing content, only in adding to it or giving more options for it.

Content isn't the same thing as quality. I'm for adding content when it doesn't impact the quality. But I favour quality over content, and would prefer to have all the things that provide the greatest quality, rather than the greatest content. Higher quality means greater depth of experience - and that is preferable over longer but not as great experience.

What I meant by too many options is extra games or difficulties, like including Radical Dreamers or whatever, nothing too outlandish.

Radical Dreamers is such a rare item that it'd be special to have it there. And it also should be added for the sake of posterity. It's also a fun text-based game and a novel flavour in the Chrono series. It also released less than 1 year after Chrono Trigger, and is for the same system as CT.

[Seraphita]

I personally liked the cutscenes because it added a nice touch to an already good game. All the things that fans of CT would love to have SHOULD be in this supposedly definitive version. Not a half assed version. A full and working version would be the definitive version, not this thing here.

[Zeikar]

Basically options are good, but if you are saying cut anything changed after the SNES version and only make it the SNES version, I don't agree with that.

Cutscenes, music player, FMV theatre, bestiary, extra weapons and gear, extra dungeons, etc. make later editions worth it.

I guess we can only agree that options are good.

Because if the PC version was strictly the SNES version, then I'd stick to ROMs and ROM HACKS, because I can play that any damn time.

The PC version should have everything from previous versions and then some (such as options).

Otherwise it offers less over previous versions and would be a glorified SNES ROM.

But if you're asking for options to switch all that extra off, I can't argue with that, but I would personally not play that way. That would be 50% what it could be. What it should be.

I personally don't mind the new areas and new items/weapons/armor/etc. The areas could even be made to look like SNES. In fact I think they use unused materials/tiles from SNES and songs. If I am misremembering than I apologize.

[DBZ_KAKAROT]

Originally posted by Turbo Nozomix:

Originally posted by Sid2Vicious:

There's already a definitive edition, and that's the SNES game, the game it was meant to be from DAY1 without all the extra optional BS they decided to add for the DS. I'm currently playing the DS version and I don't see what all the fuss is about, the pixels look the same as the mobile versions and I feel it lost it's original charm with all these unnecessary touchups that people are now expecting more and more, which imo is destroying the original charm the game had in the first place.

DS version is only great if you're experiencing it the first time around, but if you played it before it's no better than the mobile versions, and eventually after the fixes this steam version as a first experience.

I agree. The SNES is the best version of the game there is.

My understanding of people liking the NDS version so much is that it was the first and usually only version that they've played, and since CT is such a good game, they associate that goodness with it being the NDS version - which they've heard is closer to the original Japanese translation, and they take that as an additional layer of Confirmation Bias to mean that the NDS version is somehow 'definitive'.

But these people seem to not be aware that 'more technically accurate to the Japanese' involved the script becoming less than it previously was.


But, actually, the NDS version itself was a downgrade over the SNES version, in many ways:

- The NDS translation is less powerful and less heartfelt and charming than the SNES translation. 'More accurate' doesn't matter when it's less quality. That just means that the English SNES version of Chrono Trigger is superior to the Japanese SNES version.

- Also, I think the NDS translation is simply off in at least as many places as the SNES translation is

- the NDS version has lower resolution than the SNES version

- the NDS version has sound issues that aren't in the SNES version

- the NDS version has a worse font than the SNES version

- the NDS version has a worse UI than the SNES version

- the NDS version has worse colouring than the SNES version



And here are some more subjective points, but points that I find to matter to me:

- the NDS version has tacked-on "bonus" content that doesn't maintain the level of fidelity of the SNES version

- the NDS version has the PS1 cutscenes which don't fit with the game as what they show is contradictory to the game. They are also jarring and disrupt the immersive experience, for me. I hope that an option to turn them off will be added to the Steam CT version.

Took the words out my mouth and worded it perfectly, I agree 100% with everything you said!

I also agree with the other posts that there should be an option to turn off any or all of the DS extras. As I'm currently playing through the DS I wished there was a way to turn off the cutscenes that are disruptive to my gameplay since I'm literatly rewatching the same scene repeated twice in different format, while conveying the same message. Also wish there was a translation switch, because after reading some lines I'm just like "Nooo" or "lame" since that line doesn't sit right with me and the message doesn't convey the same impact as the original.

[Baeshin]

I love the Snes and PS1 version. Not sure why they didn't just port from those two... seems to be the only way to go about it.