Spell Choices for Automatic Combat

[Game? More like Grift.]

So in the automatic combat actions we can choose a basic spell for our casters but this is almost always useless. The spells that do best are often larger area spells which are not selectable. This means in mundate routine fights you constantly have to baby your casters. Can you open the basic skills up to other/all offensive magics? I can understand if you want spells with AOE to be placed specifically you'd take over but in most cases this is just about spamming the crap out of a single enemy.

In a way I could also perhaps argue this is a problem with the spells. The larger AOE spells do more damage than their single tile equivilants. Normally I'd say the AOE should be weaker because it's spread out where the single tile spells that can be used for auto attacts should be of higher concentration.

[prometheusheir]

If the spell has no range limitation, it is available. Area effect spells with limited range would fire so early that you waste mana before they get a meaningful number of enemies in range. Hence have not added those (but believe me, I had this argument a few dozen times over the last 16 months).

Multi-enemy spells that have no range limitation are available, like ignite and magic rupture. They are very potent at certain times and in certain situations (at least at high level).

In terms of powerful single spells: WITHER RAY is very potent at high level, and so is CRYO CHARGE, METEOR and HELL PLASMA. Which cover 4 damage types for bigger single target damage.

What I hear people do a lot is use chain lightning, which is overpowered. I certainly don't want to nerf it down this late in the game's progress, but it definitely would deserve a nerf. But what I won't do is add to its power by making it auto-able.

[Game? More like Grift.]

I can see this being a disscussion topic but with the range issue I'd almost say if in range X if not Y, like a fall back spell. A lot of the stuff you mention are things I don't have so perhaps thats the issue. With some things there is no real obvious details that make me want to get something. I've been more focused on leveling what I have thinking the level should scale. If other things are blatantly better then it some what negates why you'd even want to level older spells. In a short period I can see it being slightly advantageous but I think this is a perception thing. Since I've not tried "everything" how I'm looking at things makes it seem wonky or self defeatest. I guess I'll need to go find where I can replace my spells then.

[Game? More like Grift.]

Just a quick question the lightning ball spell has no range restriction and it's not allowed for auto, how come?

[prometheusheir]

Originally posted by The Menstrual Persuader:

Just a quick question the lightning ball spell has no range restriction and it's not allowed for auto, how come?

used to have, I changed it along the way. But still anything hitting a ball-shape I exclude from auto historically mainly because I did not lke the idea of people just auto-ing these spells and having a multi-target levelling machine.

[Game? More like Grift.]

Ah ok, it makes sense but also kinda sucks when grinding. I may have to try some new things which reminds me. So new spells and abaility trainers in chapter 3 don't seem to correlate anymore. So when you are in the stats and abilities pages and there is the little thing in the bottom left that has cataloged trainers for a given skill and where they are doesn't seem to update or be accurate for chapter 3.

[prometheusheir]

Originally posted by The Menstrual Persuader:

Ah ok, it makes sense but also kinda sucks when grinding. I may have to try some new things which reminds me. So new spells and abaility trainers in chapter 3 don't seem to correlate anymore. So when you are in the stats and abilities pages and there is the little thing in the bottom left that has cataloged trainers for a given skill and where they are doesn't seem to update or be accurate for chapter 3.

yes ch2 and ch3 instances of people overlap, that is correct. Had no neat way to correlate those and eliminate them. Will look into that, it's on my list!

[Game? More like Grift.]

Ah ok. I just mention because I'll go to locations to get certain skills and well, they aren't there! heh. So I still have no idea where to find certain things anymore which it sounds like I need.

[Tarsis]

Poison dart has limited range yet is auto able. Could holy plasma be added? Yes I'm back to try and get a couple of holy spells on the auto list. Please?

You were right about the tankiness of exorcists when you find the right gear (I just hadn't been looking close enough) but now I need some auto holy power!

[Game? More like Grift.]

LET AUTOJEEBUS SLAY YOU! (Exorcist joke) Ya lighting ball has no range restriction and that's what I wish I could auto. Poison dart is fail sauce. Maybe I've screwed my build up completely out of ignorance but I don't want my mage near ANYTHING much less 2 spaces away from ♥♥♥♥. He's useless frail enough without being a clubbing's length away from death.

[Strap me to a Missile]

Originally posted by prometheusheir:

Originally posted by The Menstrual Persuader:

Just a quick question the lightning ball spell has no range restriction and it's not allowed for auto, how come?

used to have, I changed it along the way. But still anything hitting a ball-shape I exclude from auto historically mainly because I did not lke the idea of people just auto-ing these spells and having a multi-target levelling machine.

Preventing the player from autoing AOE spells makes the already tedious process of grinding slightly moreso. However, it also makes exploration significantly more tedious. In chapter 1 the massive number of ant fights when exploring the nest are tolerable because I can just set ignite to auto and max the auto speed. In chapter 3 the fights are even easier but I avoid the area like the plague because insufficient spell scaling has made ignite useless and I must now use the manual only lightning ball. The additional tedium has marginal impact on the already extremely tedious process of grinding and a massive impact on the hopefully not tedious at all process of exploration.

I have found the inability to auto lightning ball particularly irritating. In late chapter 2/early chapter 3 (before chain lightning, etc.) it is my backlines only decent option for heavily armoured enemies. Thus even extremely easy and straightforward fights cannot be be autoed without crippling my entire backline.

In addition, frost ball is often my only option for a slow effect pre-chapter 3. Thus if I want to slow an enemy to help my frontline flank I am forced to turn off autocombat.

These and many other instances effectively make autocombat useless for the backline past chapter 1. (Maybe this will change in late chapter 3.) Even extremely easy fights often require manual use of spells. This is particularly true because the proficiency system incentives me to use my best spells on everything to raise their level. Moreover, it reduces replayability by adding unnecessary tedium to the process of experimenting with new party compositions or playstyles.

Originally posted by prometheusheir:

If the spell has no range limitation, it is available. Area effect spells with limited range would fire so early that you waste mana before they get a meaningful number of enemies in range. Hence have not added those (but believe me, I had this argument a few dozen times over the last 16 months).

It is also wasteful to put ignite on auto as the casters do not cease casting when they've stacked enough DoT to efficiently eliminate all adds, or even all enemies period. Nonetheless, it is a temping option for many easy fights in which efficient use of mana is unnecessary. Similarly, access of AoE autocasting would make late chapter 2/early chapter 3 exploration much less tedious by allowing easy enemies to be auto-fought on the way to more mechanically challenging fights.

Originally posted by prometheusheir:

What I hear people do a lot is use chain lightning, which is overpowered. I certainly don't want to nerf it down this late in the game's progress, but it definitely would deserve a nerf. But what I won't do is add to its power by making it auto-able.

I don't think balancing spells by tedium is a good idea. It messes with the usage based leveling system central to caster progression and incentives tedious behavior in a core gameplay. It can be difficult to avoid these sorts of perverse incentives in edge cases such as grinding. However, deliberately introducing the flaws of grinding into core combat mechanics is a mistake.

[Gui]

Originally posted by prometheusheir:

If the spell has no range limitation, it is available. Area effect spells with limited range would fire so early that you waste mana before they get a meaningful number of enemies in range. Hence have not added those (but believe me, I had this argument a few dozen times over the last 16 months).

Multi-enemy spells that have no range limitation are available, like ignite and magic rupture. They are very potent at certain times and in certain situations (at least at high level).

In terms of powerful single spells: WITHER RAY is very potent at high level, and so is CRYO CHARGE, METEOR and HELL PLASMA. Which cover 4 damage types for bigger single target damage.

What I hear people do a lot is use chain lightning, which is overpowered. I certainly don't want to nerf it down this late in the game's progress, but it definitely would deserve a nerf. But what I won't do is add to its power by making it auto-able.

What does WITHER RAY actually withers ? It seems to do decent Lifedrain damage, but I'd like to know the debuffs too.

[prometheusheir]

lowers accuracy, evasion, speed.

the higher the spell level the bigger the effect. and it can stack.

[Gui]

Thanks, I found that a bunch of level 10 demons on a withered powerful ennemy is a very good combo!