R64, certain spell tiers

[Cyaneyed]

I'm trying to get started on Arcane Brilliance trophies. But I have Moon Blessing, God's Hand, Night Time and Hellfire Blast yet to reach tier 2. I'm currently running an Angel build, swimming in FC, but it's not popping up.

Are there any good builds or tips for unlocking these? Most discussion I see on spell tiers is focused around R46.

Eta. As of writing I have CTA level 6, Holy Light 2, Diamond Pickaxe 2, Spiritual Surge 3.

[PseudonymousBosh]

The unlocking of spell tiers is determined by activity time for the spell in question; being able to afford the upgrade for the tier is neither necessary nor sufficient to unlock it. If you can't see the upgrade for T2 God's Hand at present, the first thing is to check that you have enough activity time in your current reincarnation; if you don't, then the upgrade should appear when you do.

[Cyaneyed]

Originally posted by PseudonymousBosh:

The unlocking of spell tiers is determined by activity time for the spell in question; being able to afford the upgrade for the tier is neither necessary nor sufficient to unlock it. If you can't see the upgrade for T2 God's Hand at present, the first thing is to check that you have enough activity time in your current reincarnation; if you don't, then the upgrade should appear when you do.

Thanks, I didn't realise there was a time component, when I looked it up I only see the gem/fc requirement. I was about to abdicate and try it minus Dwarf as an experiment, lucky I saw your comment in time. Active time for God's hand is presently 2 hours 42 mins, still tier 1.

[PseudonymousBosh]

Details of required times for tier unlocks can be found here[musicfamily.org].

[Včelí medvídek]

Btw it is total active time in this R, so abdication is still fine and will not harm your pogress.

Other way, yup, in general time and only time matter.. I am on similar boat as you, even though I did some tiers through previous R before so I am unlocking T5 (AB4) now already and I am R63 - found good to progress various Lineages at same time, because just keep game running for 2-3 days only for spell tier and no other progress is bit boring (though sometime there is no other way and I realy want those T5 for progress dragon challenges and Spell Cataclysm.. But still I am able progress to next R within some 2-3 hours so I will maybe do soem more for more lower unlocking times..

[Cyaneyed]

Thank you both for the info - I ended up leaving it going offline and just came back to find it's popped up finally. Good to know we can abdicate between runs, it can be quite tedious waiting for a spell tier while seeing no gem progress so I will try what you suggested Včelí medvídek.

[Jack]

For unlocking spell tiers need cast spell without resets?

[Včelí medvídek]

Originally posted by Jack:

For unlocking spell tiers need cast spell without resets?

It is Active Time Total value (this R because it resets to 0 with every R)

[Jack]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

Originally posted by Jack:

For unlocking spell tiers need cast spell without resets?

It is Active Time Total value (this R because it resets to 0 with every R)

so, if i want get max lvl, i must stay in current reincarnation?

[Včelí medvídek]

Originally posted by Jack:

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

It is Active Time Total value (this R because it resets to 0 with every R)

so, if i want get max lvl, i must stay in current reincarnation?

eg. if you have AB1 at R50 T3 unlock take 1d 15 h, T4 4d15h - but this time used for T3 is excluded so you need 6d6h in total if going for T4 (and not only 4d15h for both) - in other words you can reset once unlock T3 and no lose any time thanks reincarnate (and each R lower times needed for unlock so if you are unlocking that T4 at next R it wills ave you some time). I am jsut not exactly sure how it works once you unlock arcane brilliance level at same R if times already spend will be counted accord that.

Overall progress all spell tiers take many many days, weeks.. even on higher R. My personal strategy is to unlock new tiers for certain race combo every R (every few R) progressing Arcane Brilliance at same time. But if one can manage unlock lineage 15 for get additional spell possibly it can speed up the process - still I am glad I have good deal behind me, unlocking at least some spells to T5 (CtA 6) way prior that (progressing lineages to first perk at level 5 atm) for dragon challanges progress that needs those.

[Grennan]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

Originally posted by Jack:

so, if i want get max lvl, i must stay in current reincarnation?

eg. if you have AB1 at R50 T3 unlock take 1d 15 h, T4 4d15h - but this time used for T3 is excluded so you need 6d6h in total if going for T4 (and not only 4d15h for both) - in other words you can reset once unlock T3 and no lose any time thanks reincarnate (and each R lower times needed for unlock so if you are unlocking that T4 at next R it wills ave you some time). I am jsut not exactly sure how it works once you unlock arcane brilliance level at same R if times already spend will be counted accord that.

Overall progress all spell tiers take many many days, weeks.. even on higher R. My personal strategy is to unlock new tiers for certain race combo every R (every few R) progressing Arcane Brilliance at same time. But if one can manage unlock lineage 15 for get additional spell possibly it can speed up the process - still I am glad I have good deal behind me, unlocking at least some spells to T5 (CtA 6) way prior that (progressing lineages to first perk at level 5 atm) for dragon challanges progress that needs those.

NO. This is wrong.

It doesn't matter how many tiers you unlocked this R, the amount given is the total time spent this R to get to that tier.

In fact, if you're going for arcane briliance trophies it is WAY better to go for all of them at once, because the amount of time needed for your highest tier spell will be get the benefit of any earlier trophies you unlock on the same R, and any time put in getting those earlier tiers unlocked.

To illustrate, let's use R64.

If you have no trophies, it takes about 16 hours for tier 2, 2 days for tier 3 (NOT 2 days + 16 hours), 4 days 3 hours for tier 4, 7 days for tier 5 and 10 days 17 hours for tier 6. It does NOT take 10 days + 7 days + 4 days + 2 days = more than 3 weeks.

But that's if you get no arcane briliance trophies.

If you plan to get the first arcane brilliance trophy, then your targets become:

Still 16 hours for tier 2, 1 day 6 hours for tier 3, 2 days 23 hours for tier 4, 5 days 11 hours for tier 5 and 8 days 18 hours for tier 6. You therefore don't need to get 10.75 days on the tier 6 spell, you can just put in the 8.75 days and then once you have the trophy load up the spell and it will fire the tier 6.

Best case, then, is going for the 4th trophy (tier 5 spells):

You can get tier 5 in all spells if you put in 2 days 23 hours 32 minutes in each (at R64). That includes the discount from the tier 4 spells, which you'll get because you'll get the trophy for the tier 3 and tier 2 spells. And if you get all the tier 5 spells, you only need to go to a total of 4 days 3 hours 6 minutes (total this R) in any spell that you want to get to tier 6.

So if you do 4 days 3 hours 6 minutes in each spell this R, you'll get all 5 arcane brilliance trophies. But if you leave the R without the trophy, you'll still need most of those 4+ days to get tier 6 later (though of course the time required goes down as your R goes up).

[Cyaneyed]

I'm at R73 now. Looking at the link given on spell tier times, it looks like each R reduces the time requirement by 5 hours at tier 5.

I started the R with Brainwave at tier 4, and am doing a longer run so that I can finally get DC 5 and all that goes with it. Currently at 2 days 23h total active time for Brainwave. By my estimation tier 5 would unlock at just under 5 days had I done everything in one run, as suggested above by Grennan. But I've actually had tier 4 since before I even started this thread, never made tier 5 a priority until now.

Given starting the R with tier 4 already, will the estimated tier 5 unlock still happen at around 5 days total active time?

[Grennan]

Active time from previous Rs will not help. All active time this R will help. All arcane brilliance trophies you have OR that you finish off this R will help.

At R73, Tier 5 is
5 days 20 hours 31 minutes with no trophies,
4 days 13 hours 32 mins with the Tier 2 trophy,
3 days 10 hours 37 minutes with the tier 3 trophy and
2 days 11 hours 38 minutes active time this R with the tier 4 trophy.

At R73, Tier 6 is:
8 days 23 hours 4 minutes with no trophies, (About 3 days past T5.)
7 days, 7 hours 39 minutes with the Tier 2 trophy,
5 days 20 hours 31 minutes with the tier 3 trophy,
4 days 13 hours 32 minutes with the tier 4 trophy,
3 days 10 hours 37 minutes with the tier 5 trophy.

Last piece of information we might want: Tier 4 is 1 day 16 hours 29 minutes if you have the tier 3 trophy.

In isolation, it doesn't help you at all to have the spell at tier 4 if you want to go to tier 5. What that does for you is help you get the tier 4 trophy if you want to push for that this R, but if you're not adding any new arcane brilliance trophy then only the time spent in this R matters.

If you put in 1.7 days in each spell that is NOT tier 4 this R, you'll unlock the Tier 4 trophy, then you'll only need 2.5 days for Tier 5 brainwave. But if you have only, say, the tier 2 torphy, you'll need to put in 4.5 days to get T5 BW (and won't get any other spells or trophies out of it).

If you put in 2.5 days in every spell, you'll get the trophy for all tier 5 spells; if you put in 2.5 days for some and 3.5 days for others you'll get the tier 5 trophy and some tier 6 spells, and if you put in 3.5 days on every spell you'll get them all to tier 6.

Finally, if you wait until you unlock mercenaries + lineage spells at R75, you can do several faction spells at a time, so while the amount of time won't go down more than a few hours per spell, you can do fewer total runs to get the trophies.

I don't know how much time you're losing by not having the faceless spells at tier 6, the usual recommendation is push faceless to T6 at R55, but you're close to R75 so I'm not sure whether you need the higher tiers or not (probably you do, since you have 3 more Rs to get through and each one is tougher than the last, but if you're getting through Rs in a day or two then you might not need them.) I probably wouldn't go after any trophies until R75, but multiple paths can work.

If T6 faceless + dragon spells will save you at least 4 days of production time between now and the mercenary/lineage spells at the end of R75, then you should push to T6.

[Cyaneyed]

Thank you for the very detailed answer Grennan. This push for Tier 5 has actually coincided with hitting a wall the last couple of tiers, as the undead/faceless build I'm using requires excavations, and each abdication the reset cost goes up, to the point where even a Druid/Faceless run with E290 running hits a wall as well, making the end of the run a fair bit longer. I wish I'd known about the R55 goal you mentioned earlier. It seemed like I flew through 65-71, very stark contrast.

[Grennan]

If you were progressing well then you didn't need to stop to tier up. Sounds like now is the time. I recommend you go to T6, not just T5, and make sure you get all the spells you're casting including spiritual surge, etc.

Funny thing - I didn't understand how the resets worked until after passing R100 / A2. I conserved excavations every R to make sure I never ran out. Probably wasted a bunch of time as a result.

[Včelí medvídek]

@Grennan - yeh, you are right. I had to do some miscalculation in my game that I was convinced otherwise.

Anyway, I spent time at some R64 for very long game unlocked all dragon challenges and all neutral spells up to tier 6. Now R73 (coiincidence:-) and I am still using my titan+dragon with druidline. Just jumped 4 reincarnations today and need about 3-4 hours per one. Idk what are so big benefits of undead/faceless -ye I saw that 50k assistants in my game, but also saw mana regen. at about 1/3 in opposite to druid game (with excav and dragon breath 5 I am at 180k mana+regen 2 min in new game..) and pretty much equal or bit slower progress, not convinced it would do such short games effectively as now. I dont need excavate till some e65-70 gems, after that its about 2,9k excavations first game and jsut 1k any other game after to get enough FC for dragon breath level 5 that double reincarnation bonuses (and effectively progress like e5 games in each another short game). I dont even needed exc. reset beside game where I wanted reach max lineage possible. Think I will do mercenary tomorrow without big issue with this.