Full +Fol or +EXP % on Acessories/Weapons?

[victorvaz2]

Is it still possible to fully synthesize +25%Fol or EXP on stuff? The order used to be Fol/EXP first and +Stat second, but not that this is changed, is it still possible to somehow still do that kind of massive grind gear?

[Seraphita]

Both. But if you mean COMPLETE +fol or exp. It isn't. You will need to sacrifice a slot for each. On weapons, you can get 2 +40% fol or 2 +20% exp. On accessories, only one. Best you can do.

[victorvaz2]

Yeah, that's what I meant... Thanks man! Sad they changed that :(

[Seraphita]

They changed it on PS3 because people abused it. Trust me, you don't need more slots. For exp, I've managed a turn of my Reimi from Lv40 to LV140 in like... 15~ minutes. This is added with full blue boost. For fol, I got about 50mil fol in 30 minutes. It's "slower" than Xbox version but still...

[victorvaz2]

o.O
Thanks for the info! I'll try that as well, though I just got Sarah so it's still a while to go for 100+ xD

[Seraphita]

Yep. You really shouldn't worry about it right now, then. Such boost is best left for end-game.

[Apostasia]

Don't worry about grinding until you get to post game. If you don't ignore the monsters while doing your story and without doing pure grind, you'll be just fine (and even over leveled)
as for %EXP / Fol stuff; you get put 2*20%XP in weapons; 1* (or 2) 15% XP in Neck accesory and 1* (or 2*) 15%XP in Wrist. Since it stacks with all characters, + curry rice before, it add to a niiiiiiice chunk of % XP (Or fol).

[chrcoluk]

you canb get 2 on wrist accessories if using learning gloves or the money accessory.

But yeah this is stupid, dev decison making is weird at times in games.

On the ps3 rehaul they should have gone in the other direction moving all these silly atk +2 etc. to second skill, but they moved it on exp and fol to first instead.

Sadly this cant be fixed in cheat engine either :(

[chrcoluk]

Originally posted by Zero:

They changed it on PS3 because people abused it. Trust me, you don't need more slots. For exp, I've managed a turn of my Reimi from Lv40 to LV140 in like... 15~ minutes. This is added with full blue boost. For fol, I got about 50mil fol in 30 minutes. It's "slower" than Xbox version but still...

no such thing as abusing. Its not a competitive online game, let people play the game they want.

It annoys me when I hear things like "broken" or "abused" for jrpgs. All nonsense when its an optional action.

What happens if you want fol before the 7 star dungeoun, I bet you going to reply "no need" there is a need if you play in a manner that requires money before that point.

I am usually over levelled myself in the game, right now I am over level 60 for all characters except bacchus in ENII but thats because of me piling on blue tiles on the bonus board, nothing to do with synthesis abuse, same on 360 really I was always over levelled before I even got access to synthesis, you dont get synthesis till last 1/4 of game, but for thos eplayers who never used blue tiles or rushed through game avoiding mob fights etc., it can really help and its a mechanic they shouldnt have broken, yes I consider dud hit +2, atk +2 etc. as breaking the game. Its basically disabling slots.

Once you get to ENII it can be nice to buy scythes and staff's en masse for synthesising and that gets expensive fast.

what I do now on the PS3 version (aka also steam) to compensate for this madness is, when I get to the large golem monsters in the path to sanctuary, I willfarm them for a while using maxed out fOL equipment and ocarina, when I get to 1-2 million I proceed. This is annoying cause on the 360 I didnt need to do this, cause I had more fol on my equipment anyway I would get enough money from just playing the game.

As a rule of thumb, ape's and the big golem creatures drop extra cash so they the best place to get money prior to post game.

[Apostasia]

Originally posted by chrcoluk:

On the ps3 rehaul they should have gone in the other direction moving all these silly atk +2 etc. to second skill, but they moved it on exp and fol to first instead.

I mean, it wouldn't be much of a nerf if they didn't move the exp on the second slot

[chrcoluk]

Originally posted by Apostasia:

Originally posted by chrcoluk:

On the ps3 rehaul they should have gone in the other direction moving all these silly atk +2 etc. to second skill, but they moved it on exp and fol to first instead.

I mean, it wouldn't be much of a nerf if they didn't move the exp on the second slot

There is another consideration also.

Lets say e.g. before you could do something like this.

sturdy bracelet

def +4%
exp +15%
status immunity +15%
add one hit chance to attack

In that scenario still only one exp buff (abuse yes or no?)
but you would have to lose one of the other skills cause of the atk +2 been enforced with the exp.

There is a pattern I notice in jrpg's and I find it concerning.

It seems if an ability/skill is added to a game, and it gets used heavily by players, its considered overpowered. Seriously. Its as if the intention is for any skill thats added to be useless or only "barely" useful. Check forums, everytime a skill or something gets popular people start calling it "broken" lol.

Then if there is a remake or whatever of the game dev's if they decide to nerf nearly always overreact and over nerf it.

What 'i would have done is added items that provide fol and exp without a wasted skill slot.

for fol they could have used the shiny scumbag a post game jewel that more useful on ng+ and even then monster jewels are nowhere near as readily available as food item.

for exp either a food item with not easy ingrediants or another jewel.

There is a item that gives fol alongside a buff to animals, but its less potent than food on the fol%.

[Seraphita]

Originally posted by chrcoluk:

no such thing as abusing. Its not a competitive online game, let people play the game they want.

Um, excuuuse me but T-Ace is the one who saw it as abusive, not me. HENCE they nerfed the boost HENCE it is what I am trying to explain. Don't moan about me if you can't read what I am talking about. I'm not the one complaining about the abuse in any ways, only reporting the facts.

As for fol before the 7 stars dungeons, I never had trouble with that myself and I never used the boosts before post games so imagine with. Not even sure what you would need to buy that's so expensive before then. Making decent gears is cheap and almost costless before post endgame.

If you want to complain to anyone about the nerfs, complain to T-A but they did the nerf since PS3 and PC version applies the same rules as PS3 version so I doubt you'll ever get a "fix". So yeah.

Originally posted by chrcoluk:

There is a pattern I notice in jrpg's and I find it concerning.

It seems if an ability/skill is added to a game, and it gets used heavily by players, its considered overpowered. Seriously. Its as if the intention is for any skill thats added to be useless or only "barely" useful. Check forums, everytime a skill or something gets popular people start calling it "broken" lol.

Do you think that doesn't annoy me? lol... I see that crap happens in many games. Real people who think some things (in single player) shouldn't be so OP because it ruins their (wait, what?) experience. In single player. People complained about cheat option in FFX and X-2.

We had gamesharks back in the time, bought from walmart... Console games never really needed balancing and I don't really remember characters (like Reimi here) being nerfed to uselessness. Well, I think Reimi is still good but people claimed she was even better than she is now.

At any rates, forgive my tone but I'm certainly not someone who complains about "broken" things. Unless they are forced on the players in a way it really ruins the actual game FOR the player.

[chaoticenigma]

And all it means is even more grinding for Fol to be able to afford all the stuff you'll want from Santa in Wandering Dungeon. As if the game didn't already have enough grinding on the 360 before that change in the PS3 International version. You need a lot of Fol to buy all the things you'll be using to synthesize your final gear. The only thing that may have been abusive about it is the interaction with getting your stolen money back at the end of battle, but with how much Fol you need for the emblems and gear to synth, you're going to be spending a lot of time with the Metal Scumbags.

The experience one doesn't actually seem to matter from what I remember. They changed up some of the level up and enemy experience values, so from what I remember you actually leveled up the same in both versions with the Metal Scumbags even with the change to the factor order. Even if not, it's not that much slower.

[Seraphita]

All you need is duplicate. And the grind you speak about is not so much if you can make 100mil in 1 hour top. If you max fols, I doubt you need anymore fols, even for "final" items. Can't be as bad as trophy grind at least, which I find completely pointless above 50%. Honestly not so bad.

[Apostasia]

Honestly, once you get to 7 stars dungeon with Meracle's Ocarina and Bacchus's Black Hole, you get a huge amount of fols every 10 minutes or so (With %Fol weapons and food), it's not too painful.

[chrcoluk]

There is a "trope" site which I found funny reading.

It talks about skills added in rpg's that are essentially filler skills, they useless but they look cool cause they added.

examples.

death ability - too slow to use on mobs quicker to just hit them with your weapon or a normal spell to kill them, especially if it has low chance of success, would be useful on bosses but conveniently all bosses are immune to it.
ailment abilities - similar to death, often a waste of time on mobs, and bosses nearly always immune to them, so also useless.


Now granted there is games that dont apply here.

FF13 was brilliant in making every ability have a purpose. Largely achieved by making most enemies too strong to brute force kill with standard attacks.
FF10 also did fairly well here,although still had some useless abilities, it did better than most rpg's.

Another issue is useful abilities that simply come too late in the game, or getting awarded the ultimate equipment when there is nothing left to use said equipment on.

Another issue is making item drop rates so low, that if you farm for the items you "will" get over levelled as a result due to the sheer amount of enemies needed to be killed to obtain the drops.

I levelled up 28 levels trying to get my psynard egg just now as an example, I was already overlevelled, I am now nearly level 80 before even starting nox.

If they want to combat what they consider exp abuse there is far better ways to achieve it than to do what they did, they just seemed to take the absolutely laziest option open to them.

The only way exp buffing could be considered abuse is if they have a mindset where they believe people should be spending hours upon hours grinding. Which sadly seems to be a target of many jrpg's now. If you look at zesteria and berseria as an example with their random skill system, unless you have cheat engine to obtain perfect builds you looking at 1000s of hours of grinding, which I am pretty sure is deliberate.

On the 360 version I never maxed out my skills with exp/fol until post game for 99mill gil and level 255, I mxed with other skills, the reason I am annoyed is now I am forced to waste slots and cannot fully customise the equipment.

Same trait on zesteria, doing things like adding weapons for a wind seraph that buffs earth element. a duff skill designed to waste a slot.

When it comes to grinding for lvl 255 post game, there is no point in doing what they did, the player is gonna hit 255 anyway, all they achieving is it will take about an extra 20-30 fights. Its just to stretch out the grinding time in the game.

example in star ocean 4.

been able to buy atk +!000 skill from santa is waaaay too late in the game for that to have a purpose.

adding spells that cannot be used with chain combos making them mostly useless. A major factor why mage's are weak post game. The second factor is damage increases with higher INT scale differently to ATK.