So why is Star Ocean 4 so badly regarded?

[250 Kroot Hounds]

I've played SO4 a few times and while some things do grate me about it (Lymle), I don't really see why alot of people hate it so much or call it a franchise killer (before what SO5 did). I mean, its story and characters are pretty cliche, but I don't really find that particularly offensive either, especially after going through SO3 "plot twist" (you know THAT one that affects the series as a whole)

Am I just missing something, or was it just a case of SO4 was the worst one by default until SO5 came along?

[Vayne]

引用自 Zero：

引用自 Metadragon：

The only way to get through S03's crafting is to save scum.

And this is exactly what I am doing. Too afraid to lose my upgrades and stuff. XD

You talking high about .hack, yet you dont buy it. Hmmm or are you pi**** that? hmmm

[ArngrimEinherjar]

So, like SO3 then? Because SO3's crafting system is crap. And I know because I am currently suffering it (and the stupid randomness I so hate about it). If it's worse than that then ♥♥♥♥...

I never played the other ones. But in SO4 you have to craft THOUSANDS of items to get the % achievements. A friend of mine told me it was ridiculous because he tried crafting literally hundreds of new items and he barely got the achievement of crafting 20% items. As of me, as soon as I knew that I didn't even bother with the craft system.

[Seraphita]

Oh, is that all? It's not so bad. It just means you have to craft lot of different items. If you hate item completion, do NOT ever play alchemy games. (Mana khemia and the likes). I'd be more annoyed if the crafting system was almost literal crap. Like, can't ever craft what you want... In short, SO3.

[Razgriz]

i dont know i played this game on 360 i love it , yeah the voices are terible (english) but the gameplay is perfect , i like fight in this game is fun

[Metadragon]

Achievement hunting is kind of a moot point nowadays anyway. I wouldnt do any crafting beyond what was nessesary to min-max my combat gameplay. Arbitrary limits are just skinner boxes and i have better things to do

[Andar]

引用自 ArngrimEinherjar：

So, like SO3 then? Because SO3's crafting system is crap. And I know because I am currently suffering it (and the stupid randomness I so hate about it). If it's worse than that then ♥♥♥♥...

I never played the other ones. But in SO4 you have to craft THOUSANDS of items to get the % achievements. A friend of mine told me it was ridiculous because he tried crafting literally hundreds of new items and he barely got the achievement of crafting 20% items. As of me, as soon as I knew that I didn't even bother with the craft system.

I'm sorry, but when you assess how good a game is based upon how easy it is to get achievements, I don't care about what you have to say on the subject. I play games for the sake of the games, not arbitrary head pats. The crafting was fine for what it offered, being an additional way to improve your gear and add things to your ship.

I've already addressed the rose-tinted glasses attitude when it comes to SO3 and crafting earlier in this thread. Crafting in SO3 was great later in the game when you were rolling in cash and had access to a decent roster of inventors, prior to that there were only a handful of items worth making.

[ArngrimEinherjar]

I'm sorry, but when you assess how good a game is based upon how easy it is to get achievement I don't care about what you have to say on the subject.

I NEVER even implied that, dude. I play games because I enjoy them It's STILL ridiculous to craft thousands of items, a big percent which are useless. I still liked the game on the 360, because it was unplayable on PS3.

[koinzell]

Story.......the Cringy insulting story and the annoying unlikable main character[THE LAST HOPE....dear god],
whom takes you along for the ride with his really stupid whining about making obviously bad choices
and
it takes 98% of the game

there's cliche and there's taking cliches to a new low.

[IEatCereal]

The problem isn't so much the plot as it is the dialogue. Its longwinded, weak and full of repetition. It does a really bad job of advancing the plot which ,by itself ,isn't honestly that bad.
Couple that with bad English voice acting and looooong cut scenes (we're talking like 20-30 mins here frequently) and you get an unpleasant experience. Long cut scenes aren't necessarily a bad thing, but when the dialog is laughable and the voices are annoying, its not worth sitting through. Add to that the extremely annoying characters (+ English voices) of Lymle and Sarah (who both talk A LOT) and the experience is unpleasant.
The character models are some weird combination of realism and anime style graphics. It doesn't really work here.
The environments are big and empty. Crafting can only be done on the Calnus and there are no mechanisms in place to help you get back to it quickly. Did I mention the environments are huge and sparsely populated with content?
The only good thing about the game was its combat system.

[Raemnant]

引用自 IEatCereal：

The problem isn't so much the plot as it is the dialogue. Its longwinded, weak and full of repetition. It does a really bad job of advancing the plot which ,by itself ,isn't honestly that bad.
Couple that with bad English voice acting and looooong cut scenes (we're talking like 20-30 mins here frequently) and you get an unpleasant experience. Long cut scenes aren't necessarily a bad thing, but when the dialog is laughable and the voices are annoying, its not worth sitting through. Add to that the extremely annoying characters (+ English voices) of Lymle and Sarah (who both talk A LOT) and the experience is unpleasant.
The character models are some weird combination of realism and anime style graphics. It doesn't really work here.
The environments are big and empty. Crafting can only be done on the Calnus and there are no mechanisms in place to help you get back to it quickly. Did I mention the environments are huge and sparsely populated with content?
The only good thing about the game was its combat system.

The thing that upsets me the most about internet discussion boards is people stating their opinion, but wording it as if it is a fact. I think the story does a very good job of solidifying itself very early, and very well. The Grigori is the enemy, and you find that out pretty quick. Now how long does it take Star Ocean 3 to reveal the main plot?

The majority of what goes on in SO3 has no significance to the actual plot, and that IS a fact. The only good part was the begining where Fayt talks about the policy of not interfering with underdeveloped civilizations, then gets right into doing so. Just throws the whole concept out the window. It works in SO4 because thats the first game chronologically, Roak was the first time humans landed on another inteligent planet(Because help we recieved technology wise was a different kind of circumstance)

I, and many others, find the characters you claim as truth to be annoying, as adorable and loveable. Lymle is my favorite character, easily, and her english VO nails it for me. Its their quirks that make them great. If you dont like them, you can say you dont like them, thats okay. What you cant do is simply say they ARE annoying, because many will disagree. State your opinions, not your false truths

[IEatCereal]

@Raemnant I didn't criticize the plot. I criticized the dialog. And while I agree I could have worded it differently, If you're asking a question on a discussion board that doesn't involve objective facts, then you'll get an opinion.
Also your last statement doesn't make sense. In my opinion Lymle is annoying. Because she is annoying I dislike her. Whether someone is or isn't annoying is subjective. The fact that you (and other individuals ) like her does not mean I'm wrong. The fact that I dislike her doesn't mean that you're not right and that she is a nice character. Neither opinion is the truth and neither opinion is a lie.

[Metadragon]

引用自 Raemnant：

snip

Lymle's voice isnt annoying? Yes it is an opinion. Prove to me it isn't and I will stop stating it as fact.

[Seraphita]

引用自 Metadragon：

Lymle's voice isnt annoying? Yes it is an opinion. Prove to me it isn't and I will stop stating it as fact.

Um, this is where your argument is flawed... What are you demanding proof for? He only stated his opinion, there is no objectivity here, only subjectivity. There's no place for "demanding proof".

[Metadragon]

引用自 Zero：

引用自 Metadragon：

Lymle's voice isnt annoying? Yes it is an opinion. Prove to me it isn't and I will stop stating it as fact.

Um, this is where your argument is flawed... What are you demanding proof for? He only stated his opinion, there is no objectivity here, only subjectivity. There's no place for "demanding proof".

Im demanding proof that my opinion is wrong and his is right. Whats the point in saying anything if its not factually based. People can coexist with opposing opinions but when you are recommending a game whose purpose is to be entertaining with story and characters and one of those characters is annoying to the majority of players then thats it. Thats the closest thing to objective fact you can get.

But hell if everything is 100% subjective why bother talki9ng about it at all? No two people will ever fully agree.

[Raemnant]

My point with Lymle, and the whole post really, was to call out on statements. If you're presenting an opinion, then present it AS an opinion. Dont say something as if its a fact.

"Hurr durr game is garbage" -This is a thought presented as a fact, and is wrong

"Hurrdurr I think the game is garbage" -This is presented as opinion, and is okay