Fences 4 is literally a minor UI change with a useless feature "peek"

[Desmond]

Just download Fences 4 and see for yourself. You'll get a 30 days trial.

"Peek" is useless since when you press down the hotkey it only shows the Portal icons, not Desktop ones. The whole point of "peek" is that you can save time by not having to minimizing your web browser, folders, games, etc. in order to access the icons. But the most important icons won't show up, which defeats the purpose of this feature. "then why not just use portals?" you may ask, here's why:

-Portals won't keep their reverse order setting after restarts,
-Portals don't update as frequently as desktop, you never know when your downloaded files would show up in the portal so you'll have to hit F5 every time you download a file.
-'Open file location' doesn't work on Portals.
-Drag and drop a file from a folder to a hidden portal doesn't work because when you hover over the portal it keeps hiding
etc. etc.

All the bugs are still here, intact. You're basically paying for a minor UI upgrade, nothing more.

[MagnumPCI]

Hello,

Sorry to hear you are having trouble.

Fences 4 is literally a minor UI change with a useless feature "peek"

While Fences 4 has more than just Peek (support of Windows 11, a new loading mechanic for faster bootup, and enhanced windows key + d), let me try to address some of what you have detailed.

Originally posted by Desmond Do$h:

"Peek" is useless since when you press down the hotkey it only shows the Portal icons, not .

Not sure how you are seeing that.

Desktop:
https://cdn.stardock.us/support/uploads/2022-04-19_10-15-36.jpg

Peek:
https://cdn.stardock.us/support/uploads/ShareX_2022-04-19_10-21-32.png

Both Portal and Non-Portal Fences are there. I suspect what you mean is that it does not show the icons that are not in a Fence at all..? If so, while not a feature, one way around that (that I use actually), is to have a 'Dump' Fence where everything else goes to.

-'Open file location' doesn't work on Portals.

Unless you are referring to something else, for both opening up in the Portal and using Ctrl + Click to open in a new window:
https://cdn.stardock.us/support/uploads/2022-04-19_10-29-30.mp4

-Drag and drop a file from a folder to a hidden portal doesn't work because when you hover over the portal it keeps hiding

I can't think of a use case where one would be dragging anything to a hidden Fence on the desktop but could for when peek is used, where hidden Fences are visible. If so, and that is what you mean, it does work:
https://cdn.stardock.us/support/uploads/2022-04-19_10-38-20.mp4

-Portals don't update as frequently as desktop, you never know when your downloaded files would show up in the portal so you'll have to hit F5 every time you download a file.

This is also not something I can reproduce. In this test, the download's visibility in the Portal is instant.
https://cdn.stardock.us/support/uploads/2022-04-19_10-32-32.mp4

What I might suggest is that you purge and just reinstall Fences 4 to see if you can reproduce the issues still.

https://forums.stardock.com/486084/fences-support-faq#reinstalling

If so that you still see issues, please post videos, with detailed steps to reproduce and we will look into it.

Thanks for the feedback.

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

[Desmond]

Thanks for responding.

After some trouble shooting myself I found the culprit for Peek being buggy: 'Animate controls and elements inside windows' must be checked in performance options on Windows. But this will turn on the animations in all apps which imo just impedes workflow.

By 'Open file location' I meant when you right click a shortcut of a file in a portal.

In my experience portal update frequency is just not as reliable and instantaneous as Desktop. Sometimes it shows up right away other times doesn't. Over time with more stuff and clutter this will only get worse. This and with the sorting bug, portal as a download folder is not a viable option for me.

Even on Desktop if there's too many icons problems would crop up. It would start to get more and more laggy in general and occasionally send new icons to the wrong destination, which is why I've been offloading icons to portals as much as I could.

[MagnumPCI]

Originally posted by Desmond Do$h:

By 'Open file location' I meant when you right click a shortcut of a file in a portal.

If you would, share a video link posted to a cloud service that illustrates the issue you are referring to and the possible use cases where it would interrupt use.

In my experience portal update frequency is just not as reliable and instantaneous as Desktop. Sometimes it shows up right away other times doesn't. Over time with more stuff and clutter this will only get worse. This and with the sorting bug, portal as a download folder is not a viable option for me.

Any desktop update issues is why I recommended the purge a reinstall of Fences 4 only - to see if you still had the issue after.

The 'sorting bug' is not a bug per se`, its how Windows Explorer functions - you have set the view state for each folder by default (that can be changed, however). The view should not be changing for any portal regardless of a reboot.

That said, there are MANY links detailing issues with how Windows itself maintains (or problems with) default views:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=windows+explorer+change+default+view&ia=web

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

[ペンギン]

Literally Fences 4 has the same bugs as 3 and more

1. The "Fences" are indented by one pixel and thus the defined icon layout is shifted
   
2. Updated files show the previous (old) file size instead of the newer values in portal folders
   
3. Title lines of the individual fences cast unsightly shadows (transparency is removed)
   
4. Settings in the setup menu are disabled and disappear in the background
   
5. Actually folder portals are displayed differently in size (with and without round corner and jump on mouseover)
   
6. Icons in Folder Portals shine through other applications

(several pictures about that behaviour on my profile sections and website including 2 detailed reviews)

To report here in the forum is useless, because criticism is ignored since years by Stardock Systems, Inc. The program itself has not improved. Many (or all) of the errors are known to Stardock as they have been posted many times before since 2016

Also in terms of telemetry and crashlytics (including personal and affiliate data) behavior nothing has changed.

But why telemetry and regulary callbacks if the program is not really developed? In addition there is bloatware and various files that have nothing to do with the program which then even nest in the system and (at least for users who do not know how) can not be easily deleted

The whole thing is a smoke candle and v4 is not worth the money. Even if it only costs around 10€.

6 years, 2 versions and bugs which weren't fixed since v3 release. That's a great performance for a company who earns not a little money and posts of Mr? Drohan in these forums does not make it better here, as there have been no visible results since then.

To be honest, consumers have been screwed here for a long time and Stardock Systems, Inc. enriches itself with things that do not belong to them.

Remember these days back where Stardock software had trouble with Eset? I wouldn't be surprised if nothing has changed there either ~.~

[MagnumPCI]

Originally posted by ペンギン:

Literally Fences 4 has the same bugs as 3 and more

1. The "Fences" are indented by one pixel and thus the defined icon layout is shifted
   
2. Updated files show the previous (old) file size instead of the newer values in portal folders
   
3. Title lines of the individual fences cast unsightly shadows (transparency is removed)
   
4. Settings in the setup menu are disabled and disappear in the background
   
5. Actually folder portals are displayed differently in size (with and without round corner and jump on mouseover)
   
6. Icons in Folder Portals shine through other applications

We cant help resolve them without examples, images \ video, and steps to reproduce in threads. If you can provide them, we will attempt to resolve it.

To report here in the forum is useless, because criticism is ignored since years by Stardock Systems, Inc. The program itself has not improved. Many (or all) of the errors are known to Stardock as they have been posted many times before since 2016

Understandably, the Fences Steam forums are not very active when compared to our own. As you can see there, nothing is 'ignored'.

https://forums.stardock.com/forum/501

Also in terms of telemetry and crashlytics (including personal and affiliate data) behavior nothing has changed.

That is just not so; absolutely NO PERSONAL DATA IS COLLECTED. Its the reason the crash reporter has to ask for it:
https://cdn.stardock.us/support/uploads/explorer_2022-05-19_11-01-56sdrohan.png

Remember these days back where Stardock software had trouble with Eset? I wouldn't be surprised if nothing has changed there either ~.~

Are you trying to argue that Stardock apps are the only ones to ever have issues with over-aggressive AV apps?

6 years, 2 versions and bugs which weren't fixed since v3 release. That's a great performance for a company who earns not a little money and posts of Mr? Drohan in these forums does not make it better here, as there have been no visible results since then.

We literally released a beta on our site today that will eventually have a release on Steam as well:
https://forums.stardock.com/512519/fences-4059-beta-feedback-thead

I get your frustration (I share it) but to say that we don't care, that we are not engaged with our clients, or that we don't attempt to resolve reported issues is just not accurate.

That said, thanks for the feedback.

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

[ペンギン]

We cant help resolve them without examples, images \ video, and steps to reproduce in threads. If you can provide them, we will attempt to resolve it.

Funny. I posted several examples here and there are also artworks on my profile related to fences and i also have written reviews here and with more details on my page as well. For Fences 3 and 4.

Nothing has chanced since 2016.

As example
https://steamcommunity.com/app/607380/discussions/0/3055114073639412141/?ctp=2#c3055114978649444994
https://steamcommunity.com/app/607380/discussions/0/3055114073639412141/?ctp=2#c5503948370863722968

You also have answered there. Has anything changed? NO. 4 has the same behaviour and 3 has not changed either. The only thing which has really changed is you kicked Dropbox and use your main domain now for data mining.

This is not an attack, but you only responded to things you wanted to respond to.

Facts were completely ignored after a certain point.

I'm also registered on the Stardock pages and have purchased products there in the past, so it's not like I don't know the areas. But please do not forget, Stardock sell products here as well.

@Telemetry and data
Google Analytics with Heartbeat, Stardock Telemetry Server, Crashlytics, Mixpanel, massive timed callbacks, Affiliatedata/Registryhive, MachineSID, PC Name, OS data and more. Partly encoded with Base64 ;]

Bloatware/crashlytics files:

BsSndRpt.exe
BsSndRpt64
BugSplat.dll
BugSplat64.dll
BugSplatRc.dll
BugSplatRc64.dll
MixPanel.dll
SdCrashReporter.dll
SdCrashReporter64.dll

That nestle in the system and are not easy to delete once fences is running

And yes, i count data like IP, SID and PC name as personal data, because they are worldwide UUID's. Together with Accountdata like Steam here or standalone it's a lie you tell here about "no personal". Counting for the Standalone-Version as well.

@Eset
Yes. There was a time where Stardock Software had trouble with Eset Internet Security. Especially named WindowBlinds in this case.

---

Well it's no frustration. It is simply annoying that you are generally shown up like this here and by your company.

How about an default OPT-OUT? Or do users have to block the whole Stardock domains to get their privacy back? Since Stardock does not fix bugs, your company do not need any data. But instead releases new versions with the same and other bugs.

Sad... Such a manner is not appropriate towards customers

[MagnumPCI]

And yes, i count data like IP, SID and PC name as personal data

You seem like a very intelligent guy so it is surprising to read that you believe that those PC-only attributes, that are commonly used for license verification for a great number of apps, are 'personal data'. Again, they are used to prove that the PC is properly licensed - nothing else.

Funny. I posted several examples here and there are also artworks on my profile related to fences and i also have written reviews here and with more details on my page as well. For Fences 3 and 4.

I am afraid we cant hunt for all the items you have noted in various places over time. However, Like I am here, we address issues when they are received.

@Eset
Yes. There was a time where Stardock Software had trouble with Eset Internet Security. Especially named WindowBlinds in this case.

WindowBlinds still is targeted by ESet from time to time but not for any nepharious activity, rather, it does not like how it modifies Windows to achieve what it does. No other AV apps have such issues currently.

Nothing has chanced since 2016.

As example
https://steamcommunity.com/app/607380/discussions/0/3055114073639412141/?ctp=2#c3055114978649444994
https://steamcommunity.com/app/607380/discussions/0/3055114073639412141/?ctp=2#c5503948370863722968

You also have answered there. Has anything changed? NO. 4 has the same behavior and 3 has not changed either. The only thing which has really changed is you kicked Dropbox and use your main domain now for data mining.

Again, that is simply not the case.

Fences 4 History \ Release Changelog:
https://www.stardock.com/products/fences/history

Fences 4 4.0.5.9 Beta Changelog:
https://forums.stardock.com/512519/fences-4059-beta-feedback-thead

As you can see, there are dozens of changes throughout the logs.

That said, if you still see issues with that beta release (again, will come to Steam at some point), we welcome you to participate in that thread - we would take all the constructive feedback you have to offer.

As you can see in this thread, from such user feedback, we believe we have solved a nagging crashing issue:
https://forums.stardock.com/507474/page/11/#3853113

Looking forward to reading what you have to say there.

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

[ペンギン]

You seem like a very intelligent guy so it is surprising to read that you believe that those PC-only attributes, that are commonly used for license verification for a great number of apps, are 'personal data'. Again, they are used to prove that the PC is properly licensed - nothing else.

Yes, i am.

And since I am often in contact with german data protection authorities anyway, I also asked them again. And what a surprise? A SID in particular and with namend other identifiers and all the other stuff which Fences is using, even with this procedure, can be AND IS described as PERSONAL.

Unique Identifier(PERSONAL)

PCName=REVTS1RPUC0yNUZiM1Q0 (not my real one)
&MachineSID=S-1-5-21-xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxx
WindowsTablet=
Windows64=true
WindowsSKU=
WindowsVersion=10.0.22000
RegistryHive=base64 string including registry affiliate data
Sig=
SigType=-1
ProductID=2664
Affiliate=sd
InstallerArguments=
ProductVersion=4.03

Your heartbeat which is now on your main domain instead on Dropbox

Behaviour is present since a long time

https://www.stardock.com/products/fences/crashreportingenabled.aspx?crashesReported=0&ver=4.0.0.3&verInt=400000000&app=Fences


HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Cache-Control: private
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Server: Microsoft-IIS/8.5
X-AspNet-Version: 4.0.30319
X-Powered-By: ASP.NET
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 09:08:12 GMT
Content-Length: 2046

<Configuration>
<BugSplat>
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.0.5
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.0.6
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.0.7
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.0.8
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.0.9
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.0.10
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.0.11
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.1.0
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.1.1
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.1.2
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.1.3
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.1.4
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.1.5
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.1.6
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.1.7
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.1.8
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.1.9
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.1.10
CrashReporting-BuildEnabled-3.1.*
CrashReporting-BuildDisabled-3.0.*
</BugSplat>
<Telemetry>
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.0.5
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.0.6
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.0.7
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.0.8
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.0.9
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.0.10
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.0.11
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.0.*
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TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.1.3
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.1.4
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TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.1.6
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.1.7
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.1.8
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.1.9
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.1.10
TrialTelemetry-BuildEnabled-3.1.*
</Telemetry>
<Pulse>
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Pulse-BuildEnabled-3.1.8
Pulse-BuildEnabled-3.1.9
Pulse-BuildEnabled-3.1.10
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Google Analytics Heartbeat/regulary timed callbacks

216.58.214.14
https://www.google-analytics.com/collect

v=1 Protokoll Version
tid=UA-191362-40 # Stardock Google Analytics ID
z=414952856 # generic randomnumber
t=event # Hit Type
ec=status # Category spezification T / Hit Type
ea=pulse # spezification Event Aktion / Pusle = Heartbeat
el=running # spezification Event Label / all the time
ev=0 # Event Variable
sr=2560x1440 # used resolution
ul=de-de # user language
an=Fences4 # Programname
aid=com.stardock.fences4.tv001 # Program identification
av=4.0.0.3 # Programversion
cid=xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx # userID (Unique ID)
ua=Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/60.0.3112.113 Safari/537.36 Fences/4.0.0.3 # Modded User-Agent
xid=default # Experiment ID
xvar=none # Experiment Variable
cd8=ENTERPRISE # Own variable Telemetry (user OS version)
cd9=PermanentLicense # Own variable Telemetry
cm10=1 # Own variable Telemetry

Of course everything with IP (without nothing would be possible)

Another point is... if, according to other argumentation, that's what other software from other manufacturers does, that's no reason to justify it, is it?

I am afraid we cant hunt for all the items you have noted in various places over time. However, Like I am here, we address issues when they are received.

All items which i posted were actually 2. And during the years, it's the same Bug over and over and over again. If you don't want to and/or can't grasp something like that, then that's a problem that can't be dismissed out of hand.

Fences 4 History \ Release Changelog:
https://www.stardock.com/products/fences/history

Fences 4 4.0.5.9 Beta Changelog:
https://forums.stardock.com/512519/fences-4059-beta-feedback-thead

As you can see, there are dozens of changes throughout the logs.

To be honest. version histories can also be miles long. unless essential bugs (always the same one here) are fixed over the years that appear on different systems, it's pretty pointless, isn't it?

[MagnumPCI]

And since I am often in contact with german data protection authorities anyway, I also asked them again. And what a surprise? A SID in particular and with namend other identifiers and all the other stuff which Fences is using, even with this procedure, can be AND IS described as PERSONAL.

Another point is... if, according to other argumentation, that's what other software from other manufacturers does, that's no reason to justify it, is it?

We will have to agree to disagree it seems.

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

[ペンギン]

Originally posted by sean.drohan:

And since I am often in contact with german data protection authorities anyway, I also asked them again. And what a surprise? A SID in particular and with namend other identifiers and all the other stuff which Fences is using, even with this procedure, can be AND IS described as PERSONAL.

Another point is... if, according to other argumentation, that's what other software from other manufacturers does, that's no reason to justify it, is it?

We will have to agree to disagree it seems.

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

I think it doesn't really matter if you disagree. Authorities see it differently and you have to submit to them whether you want to or not. And this is exactly what is being pursued. Sorry, but the whole behaviour of Stardock & Software does not even have to do with opinions or different views.

P.S.
With your games other products the situation looks similar ;]

[MagnumPCI]

Understood. Please keep us posted on your efforts.

Thanks for the feedback.

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

[ペンギン]

That's great again... "Arguments" like others do, plus false statements, ignorance, a software that has been broken for years and a "Product Lifecycle Manager" who becomes cynical at the end.

Well, if that's the way of Stardock to deal with customers... Not bad Mr. Drohan. Not bad.

After all for this time (other postings on the subject were ignored)

Thank you for your cooperation

[MagnumPCI]

a "Product Lifecycle Manager" who becomes cynical at the end.

Not cynical, just realizing there is nothing I can say, no more proof that I can offer, that is going to have your position change. Perhaps with time, you will come to see it differently.

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

[ペンギン]

Different? Unfortunately, I know what I'm talking about and no matter how you turn it, it also does not change various facts or even your software behavior.

This also includes, once again... such as you have not fixed the same bug which i (and i guess others as well) mentioned often during the years. Sorry, but Stardock have been screwing customers for years. In my country you would expect a lawsuit for this behaviour.

Fresh from today - using the latest Fences 4 Standalone version
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2860365529
And again, your software is plagued with invasive telemetry, for what? Stardock can not develop as it looks. In short, you have no legitimate interest in demanding anything at all

Maybe you (SD Corp) should admit mistakes, become a little more customer friendly and start fixing your software at last?

[MagnumPCI]

ペンギン,

Again, and regrettably, nothing I am going to say to you is seemingly going to change your mind. Our defense of the product, and support for it, would not ring true for you. Perhaps the review for Fences 4 will:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1815630/Fences_4/#app_reviews_hash

That said, I would very much like to work with you on any issues you have with Fences 4 in its own thread. Should you create one, link it here and I'll do just that.

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager