To those who keep wondering why she's named Fury/why a woman is a horseman

[Giron]

I'll be honest - this very topic is old and has existed since probably Darksiders 1, and yet it keeps popping up. So, for those wondering why she's named Fury, and why a woman is the Rider of the Black Horse, please, read on. It might do you some good.

As a note, this is not meant to attack people, this is to provide information. If it feels offensive, I apologise in advance.

I'm taking my sources - aside from DS1 and DS2, which I'm taking from the games themselves - from the documentary done on the series by Gameumentary, which can be found here. It is an hour and a half, but it's a very good watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4i3_-AxhkI

For a TL;DR, I'll just say: Vigil/Gunfire took creative liberties with the theme of the Four Horsemen, the Nephilim, the Seven Seals, and the Apocalypse, among a lot more. These liberties have been around since the beginning of the series, and have nothing to do with SJWs or anything like that. Remember, it's a game, it doesn't need to be super faithful.

Now, if you want more detail, read on...

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Fury and Strife are different names from the apparent "Famine" and "Conquest/Pestilience" that get thrown around (yet are never named in the bible. The only one with a name is Death. Henceforth, I will refer to them as the Black Rider and the White Rider respectively).

These names existed when the FIRST Darksiders was getting developed. The character artist, Joe Mad - who also did the updated design for Fury for DS3 (I won't be going into that argument here) - had wanted the series to have a sort of "X-Men feel to it." if I have that quote right. Around this time, Darksiders was going to be a 4-player co-op game featuring the 4 horsemen - however, development changed and made the first game feature one of the four, instead.

Of course, designs and names were created. We got 4 horsemen: War, Death, Fury and Strife. And Fury was not only always female, but she already had the blade whip as part of her arsenal. Because, to be perfectly honest here, I'm not sure how you could incorporate the Black Rider's scales and rationing into Darksiders. Answer: you can't. So, they changed the Black Rider's scales to a whip and made Fury a mage on top of it.

Yes, Fury is a MAGE. She is faster than War, slower than Death.

Strife - Rider of the White Horse - of course, had his twin guns (which are more faithful to the White Rider's bow) which appeared in DS1 - Mercy - and DS2 - Redemption (to quote Death when he gets the gun: "I know this pistol... it belongs to my brother, Strife. How came it here?") - while Fury's contribution involved an enchantment War could get called "Fury's Embrace" in DS1.

Along with Darksiders 1 came the comic that was set before the events of the first game. This also featured Fury and Strife. Again, Fury was a woman and rider of the Black Horse.

Then, came Darksiders 2 featuring Death. In the beginning of the game, the narrator/Crowfather says this exact line:

"And what of the other Horseman? What of Fury, Strife, and Death?"

Accompanying this were silhouettes of the other 3. This also appears again at the end of the game. Again, Fury was shown to be a woman. She has always been a woman, and that's not going to change. This has NOTHING to do with SJWs or anything like that. She has always been around in the Darksiders universe, and that will not change.

And onto one detail that I'm surprised NO ONE has asked or complained about (as far as I know):

Why are the Seven Seals in Darksiders physical seals that can be destroyed and reforged? Why is the seventh seal the one that calls the horsemen, and not the first four?

To put it simply: Creative liberties. Instead of 4 seals for 4 horseman, they made 1 seal for all 4, and the other 6 are meant to call heaven and hell's champions.

This is a GAME. It doesn't need to be super faithful. Remember that.

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I know this thread won't stop the questions on this topic popping up, but hopefully this provides some information for people with this question.

[Magma Claw]

1+ good post

[Death7Master]

+1

[cannonf0dder]

Nice post.
The problem here lies in the damage already done to the gaming industry. Sjws have gotten their grubby hands all over the place. Take a look at sims 4, mass effect 4 and dragon age inquisition as examples.
Now that the damage has been done everything that has a female lead or a gay character or anything of that nature is instantly accused of pandering, regardless of context or lore or simple design choice.
It's a sad state of affairs but such is the way now, the damage done is irreparable.

[Death7Master]

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

Nice post.
The problem here lies in the damage already done to the gaming industry. Sjws have gotten their grubby hands all over the place. Take a look at sims 4, mass effect 4 and dragon age inquisition as examples.
Now that the damage has been done everything that has a female lead or a gay character or anything of that nature is instantly accused of pandering, regardless of context or lore or simple design choice.
It's a sad state of affairs but such is the way now, the damage done is irreparable.

What you said is partially true, cuz the main reason for Mass Effect Andromeda's failure was due lack of resources and assets and EA caniblizing its own project by shifting the focus towards the devlopment of Anthem, not SJW pondering, and i dont get the hate for Cassandra in DA:I i quite liked her chracter and she didnt fell like the result of SJW and Feminize mating ritual, but i guess to each their own i suppose, frankly i personally dont care of the include such characters as long as the foucus is on their personalities and actions not thier gender/sexuality.
but its true that i share ur concerns for the future of the gaming industry from both the SJW and greedy developers, but lets hope for the best.

[happiest_in_shadows]

That was nicely stated. I'm a bit annoyed with those claiming to be fans and accusing the developer of pandering by making a female horseman named Fury instead of famine or pestilence when in Darksiders it has always been War, Death, Fury and Strife and Fury has been female. I can't help but think their lashing out and showing their lack of knowledge does more to hurt the fight against political correctness than to help. They're the embarrassing extremist you just wish would shut up before they make everyone else look bad.

Hell, I didn't even play darksiders 1 or 2 I just have a friend who absolutely loves the games and told me about them and I knew who the horsemen were.

[Rubyeyed]

I don't get why everyone is so mindblasted that a woman is a horseman. It doesn't matter that the word has "man/men" in it. Not every word has a feminine form especially when it comes to occupation so what's the prob? Also, it's not pestilence or famine because it's a made up video game not a Bible based animation about the apocalypse.

All this triggering because the armour isn't as revealing as usual, pretty pathetic imo. (on the other hand it's still better than all the butthurt Doom Eternal stirred up with the "horrible and offensive" jokes)

[cheep crybabby hatter]

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

Nice post.
The problem here lies in the damage already done to the gaming industry. Sjws have gotten their grubby hands all over the place. Take a look at sims 4, mass effect 4 and dragon age inquisition as examples.
Now that the damage has been done everything that has a female lead or a gay character or anything of that nature is instantly accused of pandering, regardless of context or lore or simple design choice.
It's a sad state of affairs but such is the way now, the damage done is irreparable.

Wait, what? Are you telling me that SJWs are pressuring developers into making every character in video games straight and male? Something about that seems backwards to me.

SJWs just want a culture that isn't hostile towards the 55-60% of people who aren't straight and male. That's really about it. The rest of it is just misunderstandings perpetuated by anti-SJW memes.

[cannonf0dder]

Originally posted by cheep crybabby hatter:

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

Nice post.
The problem here lies in the damage already done to the gaming industry. Sjws have gotten their grubby hands all over the place. Take a look at sims 4, mass effect 4 and dragon age inquisition as examples.
Now that the damage has been done everything that has a female lead or a gay character or anything of that nature is instantly accused of pandering, regardless of context or lore or simple design choice.
It's a sad state of affairs but such is the way now, the damage done is irreparable.

Wait, what? Are you telling me that SJWs are pressuring developers into making every character in video games straight and male? Something about that seems backwards to me.

SJWs just want a culture that isn't hostile towards the 55-60% of people who aren't straight and male. That's really about it. The rest of it is just misunderstandings perpetuated by anti-SJW memes.

No no you misunderstand, I'm saying they've pushed and pushed at devs untill they cave and add in whetever is trending at the time, be it a gender thing, a political thing a race thing etc.
When you look at some games, certain charaters, story arcs or in the case of sims 4 gender options, are very out of place and have just been shoehorned in to please the moaners, and when you see them you know because it breaks your immersion.
Then they have to release statements, take Ubisoft (assassins creed) and ioi (hitman) as examples, they've put in statements proclaiming the team is made up of various races\religions\genders whetever. It dosen't belong in gaming, we don't need to know that, as long they provide a good game, that's their job.

Gaming "culture" hasn't been hostile towards anyone, they're games. The offence to you is only there if you look for it. If there are some racist or sexist remarks in games it's normally within context and not just for the sake of offending people. Certain things excluded? it's nomally down to minority, and if you want money for your game, you want +++sales and that means targeting the majority, simple.

Back to my original post, the point was Fury is female, yes, but it was established in lore ages ago. People are only now seeing it as sjw pandering (strong female lead) because so many devs have already caved to the pressures and added in the shoehorned things as mentioned before.
No one complained about metroid or tomb raider etc, because SJW bs hadn't happened yet, so no one cared they were females, now it's seen as pandering or pressure from sjw types, and that is what has been and is hurting gaming.

[cheep crybabby hatter]

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

No no you misunderstand, I'm saying they've pushed and pushed at devs untill they cave and add in whetever is trending at the time, be it a gender thing, a political thing a race thing etc.
When you look at some games, certain charaters, story arcs or in the case of sims 4 gender options, are very out of place and have just been shoehorned in to please the moaners, and when you see them you know because it breaks your immersion.

Well, I'll have to take your word on that (and your other two original examples), since I don't play EA games any more.

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

Then they have to release statements, take Ubisoft (assassins creed) and ioi (hitman) as examples, they've put in statements proclaiming the team is made up of various races\religions\genders whetever.

Yeah, that was in the very first AC game, and I'm pretty sure that was more about reassuring people that they're not making fun of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam, not about any gender, political, or race thing. I think they were more concerned about condemnation from the far right.

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

It dosen't belong in gaming, we don't need to know that, as long they provide a good game, that's their job.

But, now you do know that. And you can never un-know that. The damage is irreparable. :-)

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

Gaming "culture" hasn't been hostile towards anyone, they're games.

Well, I'd call that a convenient misrepresentation of the situation. Gaming culture is far more than games: it's also the gamers, the developers, the social platforms (like Steam), the advertising/hype; it's everything. And I don't mean "hostile" in the malicious sense (though I've seen plenty of that!), more the sense that a desert is hostile; gaming culture discourages these people away from gaming.

Gaming has always been a boy's club. It's not exactly easy to properly grasp what that's like from the other side. I liken it to standing outside a female bathroom. You know that you could go in whenever you like, but societal conditioning makes it really hard to actually do it. Your behaviour is trained to not go in there. On some level, you fear the judgement of people if you actually do it. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with this necessarily, but it gives you a good idea of what it's like.

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

The offence to you is only there if you look for it.

Offense is a subjective thing. It's a feeling. It's a feeling you can try to repress if you wish, or indeed it's a feeling you can express, loudly and proudly. I don't hold it against others for choosing the latter option. It has its downsides, but it also has its upsides.

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

if you want money for your game, you want +++sales and that means targeting the majority, simple.

When you say the "majority", do you mean the majority of human beings, or the majority of extant gamers? Because the former are predominantly not straight or not male. If you mean the majority of extant gamers, then I would say that choosing to target only a portion of your existing audience is not a fantastic financial move.

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

Back to my original post, the point was Fury is female, yes, but it was established in lore ages ago. People are only now seeing it as sjw pandering (strong female lead) because so many devs have already caved to the pressures and added in the shoehorned things as mentioned before.

Yeah, speaking of that, how are people seeing this? I still haven't seen anyone produce a concrete link yet between this game and SJWs. I mean, aside from a very generalised trend in society towards these kinds of ideals, of course.

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

No one complained about metroid or tomb raider etc, because SJW bs hadn't happened yet, so no one cared they were females, now it's seen as pandering or pressure from sjw types, and that is what has been and is hurting gaming.

Well, maybe. It's actually hard to tell. Was there more contentment on this subject, or were there just fewer people who were prepared to speak out about it? SJW stuff didn't come from a vacuum; the sentiments had been brewing for a while. That's the thing about history: it doesn't stay still, even if you really want it to.

[cannonf0dder]

Originally posted by cheep crybabby hatter:

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

Back to my original post, the point was Fury is female, yes, but it was established in lore ages ago. People are only now seeing it as sjw pandering (strong female lead) because so many devs have already caved to the pressures and added in the shoehorned things as mentioned before.

Yeah, speaking of that, how are people seeing this? I still haven't seen anyone produce a concrete link yet between this game and SJWs. I mean, aside from a very generalised trend in society towards these kinds of ideals, of course.

Reply to this to keep topic on track. I've seen lots of people saying it doesn't fit. Various complaints either about it's a female, thus op's topic was born, or that fury and strife aren't horsemen.
My point again here is that it doesn't have anything to do with sjw but some are seeing it that way, referring to my first post about the damage already being done and people judge it instantly.
All in all it's about 50/40/10, people who know the lore of darksiders and fury/ people complaining about it/ trolls.

[cheep crybabby hatter]

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

Originally posted by cheep crybabby hatter:

Yeah, speaking of that, how are people seeing this? I still haven't seen anyone produce a concrete link yet between this game and SJWs. I mean, aside from a very generalised trend in society towards these kinds of ideals, of course.

Reply to this to keep topic on track. I've seen lots of people saying it doesn't fit. Various complaints either about it's a female, thus op's topic was born, or that fury and strife aren't horsemen.
My point again here is that it doesn't have anything to do with sjw but some are seeing it that way, referring to my first post about the damage already being done and people judge it instantly.
All in all it's about 50/40/10, people who know the lore of darksiders and fury/ people complaining about it/ trolls.

I'm not sure it's fair to blame SJWs for others leaping to erroneous conclusions. It also makes me question how many other examples were also blamed on SJWs without any SJWs actually making complaints. My experience on the wider internet is admittedly limited, but in my time here on Steam, I must have seen 20 allegations of tampering by SJWs or trolls play-acting as SJWs for every actual SJW complaining.

At some point, you have to ask which influence is actually the corrupting influence on the artistic direction of games.

[cannonf0dder]

Originally posted by cheep crybabby hatter:

Originally posted by cannonf0dder:

Reply to this to keep topic on track. I've seen lots of people saying it doesn't fit. Various complaints either about it's a female, thus op's topic was born, or that fury and strife aren't horsemen.
My point again here is that it doesn't have anything to do with sjw but some are seeing it that way, referring to my first post about the damage already being done and people judge it instantly.
All in all it's about 50/40/10, people who know the lore of darksiders and fury/ people complaining about it/ trolls.

I'm not sure it's fair to blame SJWs for others leaping to erroneous conclusions. It also makes me question how many other examples were also blamed on SJWs without any SJWs actually making complaints. My experience on the wider internet is admittedly limited, but in my time here on Steam, I must have seen 20 allegations of tampering by SJWs or trolls play-acting as SJWs for every actual SJW complaining.

At some point, you have to ask which influence is actually the corrupting influence on the artistic direction of games.

Which is my point completely. Some companies have caved in, in the past, so now people see anything related to those arguments that were caved into and instantly see some sort of pandering. Regardless of if it is or isn't. That is the damage I'm taking about

[Lanani]

This is a very good summary post. Great job, OP!

However, I am going to lock it now, as it's already showing signs of going off-topic into political discussions that have no place on this forum.