strife's guns(spoilers)

[rad_knight]

okay so there's somthing that really really bugs me about the end of this game.
at the end of the game jones is revealed to be strife and he has both of his guns mercy and redemption(i think i have that right) this isn't the issue, the issue is that in darksiders 2 which takes place alongside this game death has one of strife's guns.
aside from questioning how some random maker managed to get a weapon belonging to a horseman, how can redemption be in two places at once? does strife just have three guns? did redemption magically teleport to strife after death threw himself into the well?
side note how did ulthane get mercy? did strife die and he took the weapon or was it a gift?
90% of the questions i have about this game are how people get strife's guns so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ easily

[RCMidas]

Well, evidently Darksiders 3 takes place before either of the other two games - after Strife helps the Makers to fight Abaddon's hordes until Fury and the humans can escape, he presumably has to try to flee himself with Ulthane (who we know survives) and the other two Makers. So, my guess:

Something goes wrong during his attempt to escape. His guns are lost. Ulthane grabs Mercy and hides out on Earth. One of the other Makers grabs Redemption and escapes back to the Forgelands. Thus War and Death get the guns for Strife and will presumably hand them back when they all meet up at the end of DS1.

Or, perhaps Strife *knew* something will go wrong and that his guns will be needed elsewhere, or of no help to him right now. He hands over his guns right before the end to Ulthane and the other Maker, thereby ensuring that even if he falls, his guns will go to someone who can make use of them - turns out, his two brothers.

Let's wait and see what Strife's game has to say about it.

[rad_knight]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

Well, evidently Darksiders 3 takes place before either of the other two games - after Strife helps the Makers to fight Abaddon's hordes until Fury and the humans can escape, he presumably has to try to flee himself with Ulthane (who we know survives) and the other two Makers. So, my guess:

Something goes wrong during his attempt to escape. His guns are lost. Ulthane grabs Mercy and hides out on Earth. One of the other Makers grabs Redemption and escapes back to the Forgelands. Thus War and Death get the guns for Strife and will presumably hand them back when they all meet up at the end of DS1.

Or, perhaps Strife *knew* something will go wrong and that his guns will be needed elsewhere, or of no help to him right now. He hands over his guns right before the end to Ulthane and the other Maker, thereby ensuring that even if he falls, his guns will go to someone who can make use of them - turns out, his two brothers.

Let's wait and see what Strife's game has to say about it.

wait i thought darksiders 2 and 3 took place along side each other because of the one line at the begining where the council says "death is no where to be found"( or somthing like that)?
plus weren't the forge lands cut off from being acessed due to corruption?

[RCMidas]

Death will have set off immediately to prove War's innocence, yet War does not reappear on Earth for 100 years after he was framed for starting the Apocalypse early - since DS1 and DS2 end at the exact same time, clearly Death took a LONG time to reach the Crowfather and/or travelling between the various worlds took extra time that is portrayed in game. Most of the beings we meet are some kind of immortal anyway...

The Forgelands being cut off by Corruption, yeah, I recall that part. What I don't recall is how long ago that happened to them - ten years ago? Fifty years ago? Last month? Besides, even though it was cut off via the Tree, Death still ended up there after battling the Crowfather, so not EVERY route into or out of it was sealed. Perhaps only the most convenient.

[rad_knight]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

Death will have set off immediately to prove War's innocence, yet War does not reappear on Earth for 100 years after he was framed for starting the Apocalypse early - since DS1 and DS2 end at the exact same time, clearly Death took a LONG time to reach the Crowfather and/or travelling between the various worlds took extra time that is portrayed in game. Most of the beings we meet are some kind of immortal anyway...

The Forgelands being cut off by Corruption, yeah, I recall that part. What I don't recall is how long ago that happened to them - ten years ago? Fifty years ago? Last month? Besides, even though it was cut off via the Tree, Death still ended up there after battling the Crowfather, so not EVERY route into or out of it was sealed. Perhaps only the most convenient.

wait but i thought darksiders 2 and 3 took place at the same time, or with dakrsiders 2 taking place before three then 1(since death's entire goal was to resurect humanity and there where humans in darksiders 3) and beause death wasn't in darksiders 3 and i asumed it was because he was off in the second game since strife is undercover as jones and war is still locked up. if ds1 and 2 ended at the same time wouldn't they need to be happening at roughly the same time? unless time flows differently in different world's which i refuse to believe because that would just make everything more confusing

[RCMidas]

Yeah, the timeline is a bit confusing. The humans in DS3 are those that haven't yet been killed off by the Apocalypse - I also got the impression that when Death chose to revive humanity, it was ALL humans killed since the start of the Apocalypse. More to the point, Death's goal was not to revive humanity as such. He simply found it the best way to expunge the so-called "crime" of his brother killing them by triggering the Apocalypse early - I doubt he would have gone out of his way to do this if he could have proved War's innocence 100 years earlier!

We know from the narration at the end of DS2 that this happens at the same time as the end of DS1, which means that since War is still imprisoned by the Charred Council at the start of DS3 and only gets back to Earth 100 years later, Death has been looking for a way to prove War's innocence for a long time - plus when Death meets Uriel, she has not yet met War, indicating that portion of DS2 happens before War and Uriel meet in DS1.

Anyone else care to weigh in on this or is just us two? ;)

[BoobNinja99]

I agree the timeline is crap as is now. I've given my 2 cents on the same issue awhile go only to have people tear it apart claiming I was mistaken. From what I've played and read here and there according to many many theories DS2 and DS3 are both going on simultaneity it's just Furys on earth hunting down the sins and Death whereabouts are unknown claimed the CC but we all know he's elsewhere. But from my point of view that can't be true. 1 When War died after striga killed him his soul passed through the well and his body was sent to the abyss. The start of DS3 when seeing war Chained in front of the CC and fury was summoned some time has then passed but how much time a decade or 2. when did the CC find out Death was missing before fury was summoned or after. Also, a horseman can't have access to there full power until the CC gives permission right? Why did War not receive his full power back after the CC granted him a chance to clear his own name knowing the other horseman could not help. So How long did War spend in the Well before the CC brought him back to life for Punishment only to Summon Fury? and plot there own killing thinking even fury has betrayed the CC. How long did Fury's Journey take until the finial seen of the Ending where she Chooses to protect the Humans remaining. In DS2 ending Death throw himself into the Well of Souls to restore Humankind but did he succeed or fail because of according to the Baili DLC he failed to revive the 3rd kingdom Why else would they be no Humans since that DLC was said to be after war brakes the Seal and summons all 4 back to earth. My interaction is that DLC did not take place after DS2 because if fury is now the protector of Humanity where was she to save mankind when they were revived. She made that choice to protect them until balance could be restored and death sacrifice to return the Human would be that balance. IF DS3 really took place before DS2 And about Strifes guns well I'm presuming something prevented him from escaping with the makers and was Killed and they picked up his Guns and vanished through the portal before it closed off. But still, that doesn't explain how or why Redemption found it's a way to the maker's homeworld unless the Portal thingy acted as a bypass from the tree and teleported the maker there otherwise the makers homeworld was Unacessable do to the World Tree been curpputed. Wasn't it said the Well of Souls to be located in the land of the Dead, not inside the Inner deepest part of the World Tree so why couldn't Death have accessed it from there instead of have to find those 2 keys just to open that Big A** door that leads to a different place like a port key since I presume it leads back to the land of the Dead anyways. Samuel part in this Claimed Prequal to DS2 is also unknown but the Devs say he is already Imprisoned on Earth. If that to be True Why didn't Fury have her encounter with him than If her journey was on earth?

[BoobNinja99]

I also had a theory From the end of DS3 where Jones turns into strife he was stripped of most of his magic during that Dealing with other Bussines Comment the CC made to fury that he used the last of his power to transform just til the humans and fury could flee knowning he could not hold off the destoryer for long and die in battle that's when the makes took his guns and fleed too throught the portal before it closed off .

[Lord Lovius]

A couple points:
1) I'm not sure why people think that 2 and 1 end at the same time. I always assumed that the developers redid the the ending of one just to show that even though Death kills himself to free the souls of humanity, the Call will revive him just as it did War at the end of 1. (I also suspect they originally planned for 3 to continue the story rather than be a side story so they wanted to catch up anyone that didn't play 1.)
2) 3 ends with the Demons making their last push to eradicate humans (and Abraxis talks about his master coming to earth) indicating that all of this takes place BEFORE Death decides to try and revive humanity as he already assumes all of the humans are dead and there are none left when he gets to earth. Even though in the Belial DLC they claim that is the last of the humans, the whole point of Fury taking the humans in 3 is to hide them so the Angels probably never even knew some escaped. (Also the DLC has to take place before the end of the game as Death is DEAD at the end of the game).
3) In 2 the souls are trapped in the Land of the Dead, the Well of Souls is the passage they take back to rebirth. Death has to free the souls and then clean the corruption use the energy in the amulet to power their resurrection. (Of course in 1 it is explained that Abbadon is drawing power from the well of souls so Death may have actually just helped him out.)
4) The issue of the Horsemen having their full power is an interesting one. The end of 1 implies that they are given extra power only when the seal is broken. Since War easily flattens the Watcher after powering up it is obvious the council would withhold his power as they plan to have the Watcher kill him after he takes care of Abbadon for them.
5) Samael is locked up in prison at the beginning of 1 and is only freed after War opens the magical lock keeping him underground. There is no reason that Fury would see Samael as she is not looking for him. Death also does not see him when he is on Earth (except in the past) for the same reason.
6) Death is trying to fix the "mistake" that War made by disrupting the balance between the three kingdoms. We know from War's vision in 1 and the explanation of the Lord of Hollows in 3 that the Council couldn't really care less about humanity being destroyed. This means that even if Death was successful soon after the war there is no way the Council would have given up their excuse to make War do their dirty work for them - especially as with Death dead, and both Fury and Strife having vanished they had no other Horsemen to take out Abbadon.
7) The beginning of 3 does cause some major problems though. When War is summoned at the beginning of 1 he seems to not know how long has passed nor any of what's happened other than that he is falsely accused. 3 however makes it seem like he was in front of the council for a while before that and that he was already convinced that someone was trying to set the Horsemen up. The only way I can see is that 3 is when War is first pulled in front of the council. They then sentence his to sit in some kind of prison until they are ready for him to do the job they are forcing him into. The real question is going to be why they waited however long between 3 and 1 to send him.
8) One thing that nobody seems to talk about is Vulgrim. He seems to not only be able to travel to any world on a whim (even before getting Fury to open up the Portals in the DLC) but he is a major mover and shaker in important artifacts. Is he being set up to have some major plot twist roll, or is he just the most interworld connected merchant in the entire series? Theoris welcome!

[RCMidas]

People think the first and second games end at the same time because of the tense used by the Crowfather's final narration. When he speaks of War breaking the Seventh Seal, he uses the past tense, indicating that it had already happened. Seeing as how the other Horsemen are summoned within about a minute of the breaking of the Seventh Seal, we can deduce that this had happened perhaps mere seconds earlier.

Or, and for a less loreful explanation, the writers for the second game messed up on their tenses at that bit.

[rad_knight]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

People think the first and second games end at the same time because of the tense used by the Crowfather's final narration. When he speaks of War breaking the Seventh Seal, he uses the past tense, indicating that it had already happened. Seeing as how the other Horsemen are summoned within about a minute of the breaking of the Seventh Seal, we can deduce that this had happened perhaps mere seconds earlier.

Or, and for a less loreful explanation, the writers for the second game messed up on their tenses at that bit.

Doesn’t crow father allways use past tense in those cutscenes?

[RCMidas]

Originally posted by rad_knight:

Originally posted by RCMidas:

People think the first and second games end at the same time because of the tense used by the Crowfather's final narration. When he speaks of War breaking the Seventh Seal, he uses the past tense, indicating that it had already happened. Seeing as how the other Horsemen are summoned within about a minute of the breaking of the Seventh Seal, we can deduce that this had happened perhaps mere seconds earlier.

Or, and for a less loreful explanation, the writers for the second game messed up on their tenses at that bit.

Doesn’t crow father allways use past tense in those cutscenes?

And accurately so, since in every other one, those events have already happened. His introduction narration details the why of Death coming to his realm. His recap narrations on a reload detail the most recent significant events of the game. His ending narration, logically, should then follow the same pattern.

EDIT: Not that it particularly matters, since there doesn't seem to be much downside to spending a few seconds dead as opposed to a few centuries, provided the resurrection is done properly. It's even an expected aspect of existence as an angel or demon: die and be reborn to continue the eternal war.

[rad_knight]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

Originally posted by rad_knight:

Doesn’t crow father allways use past tense in those cutscenes?

And accurately so, since in every other one, those events have already happened. His introduction narration details the why of Death coming to his realm. His recap narrations on a reload detail the most recent significant events of the game. His ending narration, logically, should then follow the same pattern.

EDIT: Not that it particularly matters, since there doesn't seem to be much downside to spending a few seconds dead as opposed to a few centuries, provided the resurrection is done properly. It's even an expected aspect of existence as an angel or demon: die and be reborn to continue the eternal war.

I always kind of assumed the game was crow father telling the story to somone, kind of like the framing device in persona 5 or sly Cooper 3. But I allways assumed death’s game took place either alongside or before fury’s.
Since it would make sense for death not to tell the council about what he’s doing since it’s very likely he’d be suspicious and know somthing‘s up (from what I can gather he seems to be the smartest of the 3 horsemen we’ve seen so far) and not tell the council his plan. And since at the begging of fury’s game they say “death is missing” it’s because he’s either off on his own adventure or dead.

[BoobNinja99]

Originally posted by Lord Lovius:

A couple points:
1) I'm not sure why people think that 2 and 1 end at the same time. I always assumed that the developers redid the the ending of one just to show that even though Death kills himself to free the souls of humanity, the Call will revive him just as it did War at the end of 1. (I also suspect they originally planned for 3 to continue the story rather than be a side story so they wanted to catch up anyone that didn't play 1.)
2) 3 ends with the Demons making their last push to eradicate humans (and Abraxis talks about his master coming to earth) indicating that all of this takes place BEFORE Death decides to try and revive humanity as he already assumes all of the humans are dead and there are none left when he gets to earth. Even though in the Belial DLC they claim that is the last of the humans, the whole point of Fury taking the humans in 3 is to hide them so the Angels probably never even knew some escaped. (Also the DLC has to take place before the end of the game as Death is DEAD at the end of the game).
3) In 2 the souls are trapped in the Land of the Dead, the Well of Souls is the passage they take back to rebirth. Death has to free the souls and then clean the corruption use the energy in the amulet to power their resurrection. (Of course in 1 it is explained that Abbadon is drawing power from the well of souls so Death may have actually just helped him out.)
4) The issue of the Horsemen having their full power is an interesting one. The end of 1 implies that they are given extra power only when the seal is broken. Since War easily flattens the Watcher after powering up it is obvious the council would withhold his power as they plan to have the Watcher kill him after he takes care of Abbadon for them.
5) Samael is locked up in prison at the beginning of 1 and is only freed after War opens the magical lock keeping him underground. There is no reason that Fury would see Samael as she is not looking for him. Death also does not see him when he is on Earth (except in the past) for the same reason.
6) Death is trying to fix the "mistake" that War made by disrupting the balance between the three kingdoms. We know from War's vision in 1 and the explanation of the Lord of Hollows in 3 that the Council couldn't really care less about humanity being destroyed. This means that even if Death was successful soon after the war there is no way the Council would have given up their excuse to make War do their dirty work for them - especially as with Death dead, and both Fury and Strife having vanished they had no other Horsemen to take out Abbadon.
7) The beginning of 3 does cause some major problems though. When War is summoned at the beginning of 1 he seems to not know how long has passed nor any of what's happened other than that he is falsely accused. 3 however makes it seem like he was in front of the council for a while before that and that he was already convinced that someone was trying to set the Horsemen up. The only way I can see is that 3 is when War is first pulled in front of the council. They then sentence his to sit in some kind of prison until they are ready for him to do the job they are forcing him into. The real question is going to be why they waited however long between 3 and 1 to send him.
8) One thing that nobody seems to talk about is Vulgrim. He seems to not only be able to travel to any world on a whim (even before getting Fury to open up the Portals in the DLC) but he is a major mover and shaker in important artifacts. Is he being set up to have some major plot twist roll, or is he just the most interworld connected merchant in the entire series? Theoris welcome!

I can agree with 99% of what you say it makes some good points but I ONLY problem is with question 5 concerning Samael. 1) The Devs have not given us any physic proof he is already imprisoned yet at this time in the game only there WORD he is and we all know words don't hold any power unless there is proof to back up their statement. 2) why couldn't Fury meet or fight Samael he's a Demon who invaded the 3rd Kingdom and Fury's there to restore balance right?.

[BoobNinja99]

To have a Dev or Dev's of the game claim Samael is trapped is fully like saying I have a Million dollars without proof to show anyone. Would you take the words at face value from a stranger?