Raising Rat Children (spoilers)

[tiamats4esgares]

So they take forever to become "adult" rats! Finally got to turn 62 or something, and had the choice between a warrior, a healer, and a mystic. I assume it's always the same? I chose the healer, just curious what it would be. Seems worse than a human healer. But...it can grow up AGAIN! :O Can't wait to see what happens!

Feel free to share your own results. I don't mind spoilers. :P

[DaBo81]

The information is on here:

http://muhagames.com/category/thea2/

The baby rat can grow into 3 possible classes but then it can evolve again into it's final form. It grows up twice

[SiggaRosa]

My baby rat got 3 choices and I chose healer, and he/she/they is/are now a healer rat, but is still growing. Seems to continue growing, but don't know yet into what (mine is still 23 turns away). Looking forward to what happens the second time. :)

[SiggaRosa]

Originally posted by DaBo81:

The information is on here:

http://muhagames.com/category/thea2/

The baby rat can grow into 3 possible classes but then it can evolve again into it's final form. It grows up twice

Having completed the growing up of my rat, I kind of feel the end result (which I'm assuming is always the same) is a bit OP.

[DaBo81]

It's very powerful as a starting group option that only costs 1, but if you're trying to get one via sending an ordinary rat on a quest, it's a reward for a difficult questline - as far as I know, you can only get one besides the starting pick.
The new DLC gives a lot of help to the player in the early game - baby rat, gnoll, the new pets (particularly the serpent), and the dating game can all give you a massive leg up.
The game is still difficult though, so I'm fine with it

[tiamats4esgares]

Originally posted by DaBo81:

It's very powerful as a starting group option that only costs 1, but if you're trying to get one via sending an ordinary rat on a quest, it's a reward for a difficult questline - as far as I know, you can only get one besides the starting pick.
The new DLC gives a lot of help to the player in the early game - baby rat, gnoll, the new pets (particularly the serpent), and the dating game can all give you a massive leg up.
The game is still difficult though, so I'm fine with it

Of the pets, I've only unlocked the imp and the dove and they both seem pretty strong. But keep in mind you're giving up quite a bit to pick one of those pets from the beginning.

I tried a start with a baby rat, gnoll, crafter, and warrior (on hardest difficulty) and it was pretty tough, not as easy as when I pick 2 human kids and a scavenger with those 2 points instead. Maybe you're not supposed to pick both, at least not when you have only 4 points to work with. :P

The baby rat seems very weak until it grows up, even compared to human children. The gnoll is only useful for the wolf it can summon, but if you pick a scavenger you get a boar but then also have at least an adult human...

Yes the dating game seems helpful. Is it rigged to show up in the early game?

[SiggaRosa]

The dating game shows up early - early enough that doing the challenge that it provides can be fatal if your character isn't good enough or ready enough. For me it showed up just after my main character (who started as a blue orc female child) grew up.

[SiggaRosa]

I started a new game and can confirm that the dating game starts early - round 50 would seem to be the trigger. Tried a few versions of it, and the outcome of each category/sex/other would seem to be fixed, but fun nonetheless.

[DaBo81]

@Tiamats

I view the gnoll pup as an alternative to the scavenger and the baby rat as an alternative to the 2 children.
The baby rat will eventually become a really strong character, but it takes over 100 turns to get there. The children will become adults much sooner, plus you get 2, so I consider these 2 to be comparable - they're both future prospects.
As for the gnoll pup, it is good in both yellow and red challenges; it has much better potential than a scavenger, but it starts as an infant with no equipment, so needs a bit of work to get it there. Once it becomes an adult, it's much stronger than the scavenger.

I also tend to go with a scavenger and 2 children on hard difficulty but since the DLC has added the baby rat and the gnoll, I've been using those instead.

As for the pets, I personally think the serpent is the best, and it really helps out in the early phase of the game, especially with yellow challenges.

If you start out your group with the gnoll and the pet serpent, you can spam out 3 good summons each round, which can easily carry you through the early encounters.

I personally think that starting with the baby rat, gnoll pup, and pet serpent is a good way to go, plus there's still 2 points left to pick someone else - a warrior is an obvious choice, but when you're able to spam 2 serpents and a wolf each round, you could get away with making another choice instead.

[tiamats4esgares]

Originally posted by DaBo81:

@Tiamats

I view the gnoll pup as an alternative to the scavenger and the baby rat as an alternative to the 2 children.
The baby rat will eventually become a really strong character, but it takes over 100 turns to get there. The children will become adults much sooner, plus you get 2, so I consider these 2 to be comparable - they're both future prospects.
As for the gnoll pup, it is good in both yellow and red challenges; it has much better potential than a scavenger, but it starts as an infant with no equipment, so needs a bit of work to get it there. Once it becomes an adult, it's much stronger than the scavenger.

I also tend to go with a scavenger and 2 children on hard difficulty but since the DLC has added the baby rat and the gnoll, I've been using those instead.

As for the pets, I personally think the serpent is the best, and it really helps out in the early phase of the game, especially with yellow challenges.

If you start out your group with the gnoll and the pet serpent, you can spam out 3 good summons each round, which can easily carry you through the early encounters.

I personally think that starting with the baby rat, gnoll pup, and pet serpent is a good way to go, plus there's still 2 points left to pick someone else - a warrior is an obvious choice, but when you're able to spam 2 serpents and a wolf each round, you could get away with making another choice instead.

The serpent summons 2 meat shields? O.o that sounds good. It requires taking the nature slot though right?

I also have tried starting with the gnoll AND baby rat, and it's just really hard in the early game dedicating so many points to that. I'm sure it's easier if you can get past the first 60 turns.

[DaBo81]

Yes, the serpent pet creates 2 summons that are good in red and yellow challenges. The baby rat typically gets strength of the swarm and a high strength bite, so it's not helpless, especially with all the summons, but it is fragile so use your glass cannon carefully.
The gnoll can grow up in around 30 turns, it typically gets good observation or strength so give it appropriate equipment to pass the challenge first time and you're set with an excellent character from then on.
If you want to start with both the rat and gnoll, I suggest the following for a starting group for any of the gods that use a nature slot:
nature slot - pet serpent (2 summons)
other slot - whatever human you can get for 1 point
neutral slots - gnoll pup, baby rat, scoundrel, basic supplies (2 more summons)

This group has 2 adult humans so you get the chance to pick up a child early, it has 4 members, which is about the right size for early game in winter, plus you have the basic supplies to help you out in the first few turns.
For red and yellow challenges you get 4 summons, give one of the members something like a bow, spear, or wand and then they can attack from the 2nd row while you clog up the first row with summons. Both the rat and scoundrel can get strength of the swarm to really benefit from all those summons. This group should be fine, even on hard setting.

You can make the group even stronger by picking Nyia as the patron, using intellect to pick scoundrel and rat, make the rat the chosen, and kill it off early to get an undead from Nyia's ability - giving you 2 humans, 1 undead, 1 adult gnoll, 1 baby rat, plus a likely child within the first 30 turns. That's a really strong opening, the only issue is feeding 6 members in the early turns in winter when you have so little food and fuel at game start, it's doable though

[Syrris]

Since I've just unlocked it and want to be sure before starting a game with one:

Do gnoll pups have different class options when they grow up, or will they always end up as a hunter-analogue like the one from the dating game?

[DaBo81]

They can become hunters, shamans, or warriors but they have to do a solo fight to become adults and you can forfeit a challenge without much penalty - it resets the growing up timer.
The pups skills mean that it's easy to get a hunter but it's also pretty easy to get warrior - just give it good armour (or a pet serpent). It can also do a magic challenge to get shaman but you'll need to pivot the pup to handle that as they're not particularly good at magic - they don't get good skills for magic challenges and their wolf summon is just a chump blocker for magic challenges.
The easiest way to get an early gnoll shaman would be to take magic scroll and advanced robes from the starting traits and then pick mysticism and destiny each time it levels. I don't know how good the shaman is as I pick hunter/warrior as they're much easier to get.

[SiggaRosa]

Originally posted by DaBo81:

They can become hunters, shamans, or warriors but they have to do a solo fight to become adults and you can forfeit a challenge without much penalty - it resets the growing up timer.
The pups skills mean that it's easy to get a hunter but it's also pretty easy to get warrior - just give it good armour (or a pet serpent). It can also do a magic challenge to get shaman but you'll need to pivot the pup to handle that as they're not particularly good at magic - they don't get good skills for magic challenges and their wolf summon is just a chump blocker for magic challenges.
The easiest way to get an early gnoll shaman would be to take magic scroll and advanced robes from the starting traits and then pick mysticism and destiny each time it levels. I don't know how good the shaman is as I pick hunter/warrior as they're much easier to get.

If you want to go for the shaman when your gnoll pup grows up, you could also start with a scarab pet which gives mysticism (1.8) in addition to almost 15 extra health (and also pretty good group carry limit increase and decent crafting increase). Having said that, I have only had my gnoll pup grow up as a hunter and a fighter, and of the two, I was more impressed with the hunter. Might give the shaman a try on the next run.

[tiamats4esgares]

Originally posted by SiggaRosa:

Originally posted by DaBo81:

They can become hunters, shamans, or warriors but they have to do a solo fight to become adults and you can forfeit a challenge without much penalty - it resets the growing up timer.
The pups skills mean that it's easy to get a hunter but it's also pretty easy to get warrior - just give it good armour (or a pet serpent). It can also do a magic challenge to get shaman but you'll need to pivot the pup to handle that as they're not particularly good at magic - they don't get good skills for magic challenges and their wolf summon is just a chump blocker for magic challenges.
The easiest way to get an early gnoll shaman would be to take magic scroll and advanced robes from the starting traits and then pick mysticism and destiny each time it levels. I don't know how good the shaman is as I pick hunter/warrior as they're much easier to get.

If you want to go for the shaman when your gnoll pup grows up, you could also start with a scarab pet which gives mysticism (1.8) in addition to almost 15 extra health (and also pretty good group carry limit increase and decent crafting increase). Having said that, I have only had my gnoll pup grow up as a hunter and a fighter, and of the two, I was more impressed with the hunter. Might give the shaman a try on the next run.

Is the gnoll warrior and hunter better than a human warrior and hunter?

After my first baby rat took 62 turns to grow up and I chose a healer, I was disappointed that it was worse than a human healer. I know it grows up again, but geesh.

[DaBo81]

Yes the scarab would also be a good option. I'd probably start with a crafter if I went that root so there's the option to craft a wand or book as it's pretty hard to find a good one in the early game - crafters like scarabs too