Another suggestion: un-nerf the summoning+balancing

[Komissar Gebet]

The last rebalance was a total nerf. By the time you actually CAN craft a scroll/codex that can summon a creature these nerfed creatures are just too weak for the evolved enemy, and the summoned creatures are actually very much needed in the beginning of the game when you don't have enough of capable fighters.
Also top tier summoned creatures are thus unavailable even with final-tier materials and crafting recipes.

Balancing suggestion: undo the changes in crafting but make summoned creatures far more reliant on mysticism or destiny stat, thus making witches/demons/shamans make good use of the summoned creatures while children (which was ideed exploitable earlier), workers and fighters will summon only trashy one-hit meat shields.

Upd. Also the summing spells should be accesible through specific materials - like bones, maybe?

[Lumisteria]

I said it in another topic, but one of the main problem with early summons was the fact that you were able to summon two creatures, making them too effective as meat shield.
I also think that the current state of balance make some summons useful when they didn't get a real chance to be used before. Mostly, pet summons, but also some summons skills summoning only one card.

So i like the fact that you get the summons later and i think it's something important to keep.

[Komissar Gebet]

Originally posted by Lumisteria:

I said it in another topic, but one of the main problem with early summons was the fact that you were able to summon two creatures, making them too effective as meat shield.
I also think that the current state of balance make some summons useful when they didn't get a real chance to be used before. Mostly, pet summons, but also some summons skills summoning only one card.

So i like the fact that you get the summons later and i think it's something important to keep.

Or maybe the number of creatures that can be summoned should rely on the stat also?
Or one should be given an option: summon one but stronger or two but weaker.

Considering pet summons - they are far too weak. Even when level-5. They cannot substitute a fighter's place, and later in-game you need efficiency, especially in 6+ challenges.

So I think the pet/summoning system needs total rebalancing.

Maybe even pets should be able to somehow level-up WITH the character they are assigned to.

[Friend_Of_The_Cats]

The number of summoned creatures could work like the new random hits effect. While the low made scroll says 1 random hit and with better research and resources it gets 2,3, and so on random hits. For summoning : crap scroll/book = 1 weak creature , then it gets 2 weak creatures, next step 1 creature that is medium strong , next step 2 of these creatures ..and so on. Or something like that ? Materials could have the effect of what kind of creature is summoned : bones for undead , skin für beasts , demons with gems for example.

[David]

I like the new balance point, early game, easily accessed double summons made the game far too easy. Now, pet summons are useful early, magic people aren't your DPS *and* your tanks. I'd like to see a way to get legendary weapons and armor more essence, but I am not even sure that is necessary.

My balance concerns: ground shake, inspire, strength of the swarm, hunter's mark, ancestor's voice, the % of stats gained from events vs levelups, how much worse gathering is than adventuring, the AI playing multiple copies of 200 health guys into your aoes.

[was_fired]

I think that summons are at a pretty good place balancewise personally. Summoned creatures SHOULD be weaker than an actual card taking up a slot on the battle field. That's because if they take damage or die you don't care, and they start at 0, which trumps most any other card.

With the current patch using summon unliving one of my zercas can produce 60+ combined armor and health skeletons that deal 40 damage. That's no where near as strong as my bandit that has 140 combined health and armor while dealing 60+ damage, but I CARE if the bandit dies.

If the skeleton dies then it took a blow that could have hit an actual character. In terms of other summons:

Pets:

Bear: This is a bit weak
Boar: Pretty well balanced since it show up early and gives +1 movement
Wolf: A bit weak, but it would be balanced if a gave a weaker stat boost to perception than the dog

Ghost: A summon that can be used in social and spiritual challenges that also gives a stat boost? I love this thing.
Wraith: A combat focused version of the ghost that lets me put out blocked while shamans and witches kill everything in social and spiritual battles.

Abilities:

Beast: I don't think witches should get this since it's based on wisdom which isn't one of their primary stats. As such it always seems weak when I have anyone use it.
Demon: This is weaker than the other summons since you only get one card. That said the card is stronger, except that it has no armor.
Skeleton Archer: No idea, I've never used it

[Komissar Gebet]

Originally posted by was_fired:

With the current patch using summon unliving one of my zercas can produce 60+ combined armor and health skeletons that deal 40 damage.

Well, I crafted a codex giving unliving archers, gave it to my witch with boosted by the "Other ring" stats. She could summon only 30 or so armorhealth guys dealing less than 10 dmg. Legendary item, my @$$!

When you have an enemy demon (with duplicates of himself) about to cast an AoE &#ckhuge damage on your whole team you usually regret that your summoned guys can do nothing (significant) to him, and you have to send your valuables against it and they suffer (and maybe even die);

[Lumisteria]

Originally posted by Komissar Gebet:

Considering pet summons - they are far too weak. Even when level-5. They cannot substitute a fighter's place, and later in-game you need efficiency, especially in 6+ challenges.

They are useful early on, on childs and on characters that are too weak for the challenge, especially physical one. They take some damage and deal some.

I would like them to scale better late game, but early game they are ok.

Originally posted by Komissar Gebet:

When you have an enemy demon (with duplicates of himself) about to cast an AoE &#ckhuge damage on your whole team you usually regret that your summoned guys can do nothing (significant) to him, and you have to send your valuables against it and they suffer (and maybe even die);

Ok, but it's not a problem to have to adapt to the enemies. What you should explain is why summons should be useful in this case. Not why you want them useful (you want to avoid damage, it's understandable), but why they fails to play their part.

In case like this, the strategy is usually either to slow the enemy or to reduce the damage done, i don't see why summons not being useful is a sign of problem with sumons.

[was_fired]

Originally posted by Komissar Gebet:

When you have an enemy demon (with duplicates of himself) about to cast an AoE &#ckhuge damage on your whole team you usually regret that your summoned guys can do nothing (significant) to him, and you have to send your valuables against it and they suffer (and maybe even die);

AoEs should be a counter to using front-line fodder so I don't see why that's a reason to buff make summons even stronger. Summons counter high damage single target enemies by absorbing 70+ damage blows allowing you to save both health and armor.

If you're complaining that Ground Shake is too powerful, yes it is. Both Ground Shake and Ancestors Voice should be weakened since both abilities have a combination of speed, target count and damage multiplier that makes them too powerful relative to other abilities.

[flaymanthings]

why not just unnerf the stats and tier of summons but give them delays , like normal characters?