Composite materials super tedious now

[Hexatron]

So before it was possible to directly use the lower tier materials to make higher tiers composites, resulting in lower quantities. But overall, the effort was worth it.

Now i have to upgrade through all materials, as only the material one tier below is allowed. Resulting in huge material multipliers now to make the "higher tier" ones.

Before the changes, i could get 5 t4 or even t5 composites out of 120 tier 2 materials. Now to make them, you have multipliers on every tier, resulting in insane amounts of materials needed. Like if i want to make t5 materials, i have to make the t4 before and t3 before, each having around 6 times multipliers (you need 12 to make 2), so to make one batch of t5 material you have to do 2x6x6x6=432 material for 2! (and some materials may even have a different multiplier).

so to get the same as before, to reach 5 of that material... i need to do this 2 and a half times, resulting in 1080 materials.

So compared to before, i need almost 10 times the amount of resources, to get the same amount of high end composites.
Not to mention that i also need coal now!

Super tedious, super time wasting.
Please go back to either allow using the base materials directly again, or change the multipliers!

This is one of the things i would call a useless and sensleless grind. Not worth the effort at all!

Add in the fact that you have the chances to produce trash now, and you need to collect even more resources till you are outfitted!


TL:DR:
The material grind effort for t4/t5composites is roughtly 10 times more than what it used to be, please think about your numbers/multipliers or allow direct usage of lower tier materials again.

[daffius911]

I'd be ok with the material requirement (even if they are harsh) but not the grind. At least give the option to create eg: T4 directly from T2 for 36 materials and not have to do the steps inbetween.

[Hexatron]

I think you underestimate how much material you actually need. Lets do an example:

To make a single Moonstone, you need 3 Pure Stone and 3 Armored Stone. Which in return need 27 Obsidian, and 9 Mithril. Lets assume you are lucky enough to have access to t2 materials, what means you need 162 of the stone and 54 of the metal t2 resource.

Now you want to make a building out of moonstone... 135 pieces. So you are at 21870 of the stone resource and 7290 of the metal resource.

If you are unlucky and have to create one of them from the t1 resource, that would mean either 131220 stone resource or 43740 of the metal resource.

If you create expeditions to collect the t3 materials directly, you still need 3654 obsidian or 1215 mithril.

Your expedition will be pretty overencoumbered bringing all that stuff home.. or has to travel countless times.

So no.. that requitement isn't harsh... it is ultra grindy tedious. Not my idea of a fun game to play in my spare time to enjoy.

Whoever came up with those multipliers must just have looked at the spreadsheet of data, without actually thinking about what it means "in real effort in the actual game".

[Twisted_Loki]

Seconded.

[alan]

I'd put up with the grind on the basis that you pick a village site with certain raw materials and you make your play about those materials, but having to go through all the intermediate steps isn't fun, make what you want from any combination of materials up the tree.

[SephSays]

I'm would be alright with having to go through the intermediate steps, if it wasn't so harsh on the 1/3 output from input. Either have the low output, *or* have to go through every step. This feels like an overbalancing. And, unfortunately, it's pretty much the only thing I can't find in the database files to edit myself to see if I can have a more enjoyable experience and find a better balance...

[Thunderllama]

Keep in mind that you don't need T5 materials to finish the base game. You can finish the game with T3 and T4 items. T5 items are meant to be super rare and truly legendary.

Ignoring the old system, does the new crafting system make it impossible to finish the game?

[xyloth01]

@ hexatron
Cummulative ratio 1 to 6 is sucks, 1 Moonstone is 3 Pure Stone (18 obsidian) + 3 Armored Stone (9 obsidian + 9 mithrill), aka 1 moonstone = 36 t3 matherial = 216 t2 material = 1296 t1 material -> more than 6000 gathering needed per t5 unit!!!

Yes, if you are (un)lucky to see the meteor what dinos do not like, and start to build the moonstone school, you may finish it a bit after the human race reaches the moon...

Suggestion:
2 Moonstone = 3 Pure Stone +3 Armored Stone + 1 Coal (ratio 1:3)
2 Purestone = 8 Obsidian + 2 Coal (ratio 1:4)
2 Armored Stone = 4 Obsidian + 4 Mithrill + 2 Coal (ratio 1:4)
2 Obsidian = 10 Quartz (or clay or granite) +3 Coal (ratio 1:5)
2 Mithrill = 10 Silver (or steel or gold) +3 Coal (ratio 1:5)
2 Quartz = 12 Sandstone + 4 Coal (ratio 1:6)
2 Silver = 12 Iron + 4 Coal (ratio 1:6)

1 moonstone = 12 t3 material = 60 t2 material = 360 t1 material

so to build that 153 moonstone building you need 8100 t2 material. It is still a considerable amount but feasible (about 1750 gathering / 1 unit moonstone).

[SephSays]

Originally posted by Thunderllama:

Keep in mind that you don't need T5 materials to finish the base game. You can finish the game with T3 and T4 items. T5 items are meant to be super rare and truly legendary.

Ignoring the old system, does the new crafting system make it impossible to finish the game?

Definitely not. I've just played a game today, never cooked up any materials, and didn't have any problem finishing the main story. I was also close on getting the 6 level 20 characters, which was the last objective I didn't have for the Domination Victory. The vast majority of the items I used were looted from the world.

But, if you want to settle down a village and progress that way, the current crafting experience is really disappointing. It's really nice to be able to establish a village that makes a T5 resource effectively. And with the way this is now, it's quite disheartening to find a perfect spot that has a good array of food, coal, and a T2 resource of each variety, knowing that even if I could get enough people to start a production line, I'd never have enough to make a truly legendary village.

[xyloth01]

Originally posted by SephSays:

Definitely not. I've just played a game today, never cooked up any materials, and didn't have any problem finishing the main story.

Yes you absolutly lighted the problem, now you do not need to craft, so why crfatign is presented? You may consider the other view of playstyle, if you would like to use the craftinsystem to cook a good blade you can not do that. Someone like me may want to craft some good stuffs like did it in thea 1 but we have no opportunity to do that... :-(

[was_fired]

I like the idea of the new system, but the values are just too far off and not being able to automatically convert across tiers just makes the experience painful. We don't even need to be able to jump from 1 to 5 directly, but allowing 2 tiers to be traversed would make the overall experience a lot nicer. If they combine that with deduplicating entries that are in reverse order it would result in the following crafting options per tier:

Tier 2: 1
Tier 3: 3 + 1 = 4
Tier 4 (single): 1 + 3 = 4
Tier 4 (mixed): 1 + 6 [tier 3 and 2] + 9 [tier 2 and 2] = 16
Tier 5: 1 + 2 [tier 4 and 3] + 1 [tier 3] = 4

I admit Tier 4 mixed items would have a LOT of options, but if they're sorted by maximum craftable items as their primary order option I think it wouldn't be a huge pain.

[K'senia]

Everyone keeps using a moonstone school as an example. Why would you ever need such a building? Build your T3 buildings and forget about them. The bonus increase is not worth rebuilding them. T5 weapons/armors and artifacts are not nearly as outrageous and fairly easy to produce with 2-3 dedicated craftsmen and a locally harvested T3.

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by Thunderllama:

Keep in mind that you don't need T5 materials to finish the base game. You can finish the game with T3 and T4 items. T5 items are meant to be super rare and truly legendary.

Ignoring the old system, does the new crafting system make it impossible to finish the game?

Just because you CAN do high level challenges with T3 gear doesn't mean we want to. Like, I could do level 7 challenges without ever leaving the starting island, never even touching T3, and I can get the dwarf from the prison without ever leaving the starting island or even using special gear (yellow challenge), which means I can end the game without ever leaving the starting island if I so choose, but I want to experience more, do more, and attain more with my party. Part of that is getting T5 gear. It's fun to reach that point. It's not even hard to do, it's just literally gated by making it tedious and time-consuming.

[MeDaDaddy]

Originally posted by Acanthus:

...*snip for brevity* It's fun to reach that point. It's not even hard to do, it's just literally gated by making it tedious and time-consuming.

From what I've experienced thus far, the RP just fly in when I have a couple of groups out and about exploring/encountering/doing missions/gathering stuffs that are unavailable at a village and so on and so forth.

I haven't yet found it tedious and time-consuming yet personally, since when you have your parties out and about doing stuffs, you soon realise you have loads of unspent RPs and a ton of resources that you can swiftly turn into any high-tier items you may wish to make.

Do you have several groups out and about doing stuffs, or are most of your population town-bound?

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by MeDaDaddy:

Originally posted by Acanthus:

...*snip for brevity* It's fun to reach that point. It's not even hard to do, it's just literally gated by making it tedious and time-consuming.

From what I've experienced thus far, the RP just fly in when I have a couple of groups out and about exploring/encountering/doing missions/gathering stuffs that are unavailable at a village and so on and so forth.

I haven't yet found it tedious and time-consuming yet personally, since when you have your parties out and about doing stuffs, you soon realise you have loads of unspent RPs and a :♥♥♥♥: ton of resources that you can swiftly turn into any high-tier items you may wish to make.

Do you have several groups out and about doing stuffs, or are most of your population town-bound?

I'm talking about the actual crafting process of T5s. It's time consuming, even if you have crafters with >1000 crafting speed. RP is the easiest part of the process because researching creatures and terrain is rather easy.

[Victory]

I like it much better where it is now. t5 should be super awesome and rare. But as always...Mods.