Starting with orc child

[Solous]

So, I thought Svarog was a pretty neat God and for 5 points I was able to unlock start with an orc child. Figured they'd be neat fighters when they grow up. No matter what I do they have to be a gatherer or craftsman. I've got one to 9 strength, and fighter wasn't a choice. I delved into it and apparently you need rep with orcs to send them off to a tribe to teach them to be the special classes, but is fighter really one of those? Currently no matter how many times I try I end up with a bitter craftsman or gatherer with lower max sanity cause they hate me. Seems like a waste of a card slot.

[Lumisteria]

You need either loyalty, adult orc, or have a very small chance to see the path if you don't have one of those.

[Havenco]

Originally posted by Lumisteria:

You need either loyalty, adult orc, or have a very small chance to see the path if you don't have one of those.

How much loyalty though? Would choosing the "Bodyguards" trait (+10 loyalty) give enough?

I too thought that it would be pretty neat to have an orc in the party, until I figured it could only become a craftsman or gatherer, and on top of that it would resent me for choosing either.

[Lumisteria]

50 loyalty is the usual amount to be friend with a faction and unlock options such as recruitment and guiding child.

[Havenco]

Originally posted by Lumisteria:

50 loyalty is the usual amount to be friend with a faction and unlock options such as recruitment and guiding child.

That's unfortunate. Would really like if the developers could at least increase the chance of getting more options if "Bodyguards" is chosen. The orc child card is not that good to begin with, and adding some sort of synergy between the cards would at least make it somewhat worth choosing, imo.

[Lumisteria]

If the chance is not too high, it could be interesting in my opinion. Kinda a middle ground.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Havenco:

The orc child card is not that good to begin with

Yes, all inhuman children are more or less traps on the start:
1) Orcs can't became fighters with any reasonable chance for success + bad gatherers/crafters.
2) Goblin can't became shamans (in theory you will need Witch in party AND will have only 15% chance to see the option without goblin tribe, but in fact event is broken and simply refuse to do so) and other unique option is even more rare.
3) Elves can't became druids/mages without tons of luck. At least their gatherers are OK.

And you have no way to know that placing any points in related stats is either completely waste, or almost don't have any chance to success.

[asdf]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Havenco:

The orc child card is not that good to begin with

Yes, all inhuman children are more or less traps on the start:
1) Orcs can't became fighters with any reasonable chance for success + bad gatherers/crafters.
2) Goblin can't became shamans (in theory you will need Witch in party AND will have only 15% chance to see the option without goblin tribe, but in fact event is broken and simply refuse to do so) and other unique option is even more rare.
3) Elves can't became druids/mages without tons of luck. At least their gatherers are OK.

And you have no way to know that placing any points in related stats is either completely waste, or almost don't have any chance to success.

I think you underestimate how strong non-human gatherers/craftsmen can be.An elf gatherer is probably stronger than any non-elf class, and while a dwarf gatherer might not be quite as strong as an elf, I'd still consider it considerably stronger than any human at least (a dwarf chosen as Triglav is also pretty awesome - sacrificial blood on a dwarf does a massive amount of instant damage when you're in a difficult fight, and as Triglav you can pick four legged friend to get a horse to offset the low speed of the dwarf). An orc craftsman isn't on the same level as the others, but it also has a much smaller investment since it only takes 1 trait point - an orc craftsman is stronger than a human warrior in combat still. It's difficult to fit them in a team on the highest difficulty because you just don't have many trait points to work with (that applies to absolutely every character that costs 3 or more trait points though), but I think elf/dwarf child starts are likely still going to be among the strongest starts if you have more than 4 trait points to work with. I think the orc child's biggest problem is just that it uses a turmoil trait, and it's hard to compete with getting a warrior for 1 trait point.

I'll at least agree with you on the goblin point - I think the goblin child is kind of a miserable choice at the start of the game, because goblins aren't that much stronger than humans and it also only has 3 speed which is a pain to deal with.

[Havenco]

Originally posted by asdf:

Originally posted by corisai:

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-snip-

Some good points here, but I'd like to comment a few of them:

"An elf gatherer is probably stronger than any non-elf class, and while a dwarf gatherer might not be quite as strong as an elf, I'd still consider it considerably stronger than any human at least"

Look at what you're giving away though: 3 Trait Cost + 1 Light or Harmony Card Slot. This equals a 1 Trait Cost Craftsman (Light) or a 1 Trait Cost Gatherer (Harmony) PLUS a potential neutral warrior, gatherer or craftsman. I just don't see how this is anywhere close to being worth the investment as it stands now.

"(a dwarf chosen as Triglav is also pretty awesome"

True, but this only applies for one single God. A God which can't even be unlocked for most players for quite some time.

"An orc craftsman isn't on the same level as the others, but it also has a much smaller investment since it only takes 1 trait point - an orc craftsman is stronger than a human warrior in combat still. "

Fair enough, it's not that bad of a choice. But you still have to carry around that child for a good few turns before it grows up, sacrificing some freedom of movement that the 1 Trait Cost Warrior (Turmoil) would give (talking about freedom both in terms of that extra movement point, but also not having to worry about potential fights). Either way, I really think there ought to be better synergy between the two cards "Orc Child" and "Bodyguards". We're talking a combined unlock cost of 8 God Points as well, which I think should be taken into account when balancing the power of different cards (higher unlock cost should, imo, give better value).

[deadsanta]

You pick the kids to get them cheaply and to generate baby events to spawn more. After you have your one gatherer inhuman, you can get access to the race paths for your *next* child. Requires a bunch of luck.

[mk11]

If you take a high cost child card that means more non-character cards which gives some offsetting improvements. Additionally, as long as your party can handle early game challenges and monsters, more experience for the child making them a better character when they grow up. Doubly so if you have a winter start.

[Megrim]

Orc crafter is pretty good, he might not be that good as crafter like a dwarf, but he ´s good in fights and social challenges. Also children costs less points then an elv druid for example so you ve more points left for bigger party.