Thea 2: The Shattering

Thea 2: The Shattering

View Stats:
Draetor Aug 8, 2022 @ 4:24pm
Question Concerning Composite Level Materials
So I'm finding the accumulation of lower grade materials and having to use coal to get the higher grade composites a really long process. Are these materials intended for people who play the game longer than the main story? I just passed turn 500 and I'm just getting started on some composite materials to craft, but with how slow the process is (and consequently getting trash items after crafting away all those materials), I'm hesitant to even proceed with it.

I wanted to craft some cool legendary items and try to take on some of the hardest challenges, but the amount of prep to even get there seems like thousands of turns. Is it necessary to finish a run?
< >
Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
Lorska Aug 8, 2022 @ 4:39pm 
You're actually supposed to get composites as loot or from breaking things down.
If you absolutely have to grind it up, you're supposed to start from T3 materials of which each biome is only guaranteed 1 or 2 unique types.
you can get lucky on pangea maps or with terrain artefacts on the starter biome, but generally it's just 1 T3 you can get reliably, for the rest you can use expedition forces.

T5 materials are pretty much post-game or super late game. During regular play you'll maybe get a handful of items made from these super valuable materials. They're intended to be extremely hard to come by so unless you want to grind a lot or get extremely lucky, just accept them as a nice bonus if you do get them.
Crafting with wild resources is also incredibly risky due to the trash chance that you mentioned.

They're not required for the main story, so don't worry too much. The main story is easily beatable with T3-T4 items (some mad lad also finished a T2 run) so unless you are looking for the max difficulty post-game stuff, you won't need anything higher.
Draetor Aug 8, 2022 @ 5:24pm 
Originally posted by Lorska:
You're actually supposed to get composites as loot or from breaking things down.
If you absolutely have to grind it up, you're supposed to start from T3 materials of which each biome is only guaranteed 1 or 2 unique types.
you can get lucky on pangea maps or with terrain artefacts on the starter biome, but generally it's just 1 T3 you can get reliably, for the rest you can use expedition forces.

T5 materials are pretty much post-game or super late game. During regular play you'll maybe get a handful of items made from these super valuable materials. They're intended to be extremely hard to come by so unless you want to grind a lot or get extremely lucky, just accept them as a nice bonus if you do get them.
Crafting with wild resources is also incredibly risky due to the trash chance that you mentioned.

They're not required for the main story, so don't worry too much. The main story is easily beatable with T3-T4 items (some mad lad also finished a T2 run) so unless you are looking for the max difficulty post-game stuff, you won't need anything higher.

This is what I figured. There seems to be a lot of options to keep playing after you finish the win condition. I would like to, but the game is SO long already, and I just want to try a new start and god.
Heau Aug 8, 2022 @ 10:57pm 
If you have a strong crew of 7 early, you can just sail away to farm T4 and T5 mats through battles faster than you can harvest and process T3 into T5. Loot at sea is a lot more powerful.

Crafting up T2s into T3s can be a reasonable choice to get early shielding weapons.

But yeah, purely settling a city and farming up is a very slow spam next turn process. Each time I try it I return to a nomad style the game after. 1000-1500 more turns for a slow crafting T5 gear game with a city.
Last edited by Heau; Aug 8, 2022 @ 11:00pm
Draetor Aug 9, 2022 @ 1:35pm 
Originally posted by Heau:
If you have a strong crew of 7 early, you can just sail away to farm T4 and T5 mats through battles faster than you can harvest and process T3 into T5. Loot at sea is a lot more powerful.

Crafting up T2s into T3s can be a reasonable choice to get early shielding weapons.

But yeah, purely settling a city and farming up is a very slow spam next turn process. Each time I try it I return to a nomad style the game after. 1000-1500 more turns for a slow crafting T5 gear game with a city.

Ya, this makes sense, because I did notice how incredibly long and turn spamming it is to turn T3 into T4-5. It's probably just better to find items/materials at this point.
Gilmoy Aug 10, 2022 @ 5:29pm 
Bootstrap to legendary double-leech goons ASAP, and farm sea lairs.
On 200%, it's 4 Krakens = red-13.
On 100%, it's 3 Krakens = red-12.
Krakens are big blunt threats, for a moderate test of your team-building skills.

Each sea lair gives you 20-50 T4/T5 loot (of every random type).
Win while taking 0 damage (because of double-leech causing runaway shield growth).
Win 3-5 sea lair fights in a row, every turn.

In 1/2 a lap around a Large island, you could fight 30 sea lairs, win them all, and have enough T4/T5s to craft maximal Legendary weapons for 5 guys who didn't already have one.

After another 1/2 lap, your ship starts losing MPs from the dead weight of your excess T5s :steamhappy: Anything that isn't stone, bone, or an armor ingredient, ruthlessly craft into tools and jewellery. Maybe craft a 2nd Ship for double the capacity.

Invest in an L5 crafting tool first, to minimize your Trash% for all subsequent crafting.

~~~~~~~~

As pure nomad, it's fine to spend 20-40 little pauses of 2-5 turns each to gather-and-craft each stage of the next better stuff. That means you sit without breaking camp, so that your partial work persists. Some typical milestones:

+ 1st T1 tools
+ 1st T1 robes
+ 1st T2 topaz/topaz everything (both tools, robes, jewellery)
+ 1st T2 elemental stone/bone double-half-leech

N..B. 2H Axe and Relic can both do this with T2-improved (not even wilds), with only 2 AP in their branches (not 3). That means Blood Bone-Quartz. And they're light.

+ 1st Ship
+ 1st T3/T3 L1 legendary weapon
+ 1st T5/T4 crafting tool, from early loot

etc. Eventually, you will be mobile on a Ship, and then all of your work persists even as you sail around and explore or fight, so you can craft on the go.

N.B. if you're bored while sitting, you can always do an N-1 pop-out attack.
Inventory, Heroes tab, Transfer All Right, drag 1 guy left. He stays behind, to keep camp.
The other N-1 guys (with no food or fuel, not needed for a same-turn trip) can move, fight, return, and Join camp, all in the same turn. Then all partial camp work persists, but they got 1 free fight's worth of more XP and loot.
Heau Aug 10, 2022 @ 6:37pm 
I find poison shielding spear to be substantially better than any double leech weapon. It safeguards against the rare 7-tile wide map where 0 speed tentacle summons might 100-0 you before you act.
Gilmoy Aug 10, 2022 @ 9:42pm 
I fear no tentacles! 7-wide boards vs. 4 Krakens don't bother me.
I usually get to deploy 8-9 guys on my side:

3 goons
2 rear AoE
2 roadblock summons (rats or undead) from a witch or similar
1 Ghost pet or similar

Wide boards let me do a rear bow staggered placement that distracts H-splash and T-splash.
N.B. this is why I do like double-leech even on bows (which needs T4 composites to splash in stone). Such a bow can solo a melee duel in its column, and beat splash.

~~~~

Gem/bone bows do gain a Spiritual attack using Destiny, which is goofy fun if you can carry spares and pick purple fights.
Draetor Aug 11, 2022 @ 3:47pm 
Originally posted by Gilmoy:
Bootstrap to legendary double-leech goons ASAP, and farm sea lairs.
On 200%, it's 4 Krakens = red-13.
On 100%, it's 3 Krakens = red-12.
Krakens are big blunt threats, for a moderate test of your team-building skills.

Each sea lair gives you 20-50 T4/T5 loot (of every random type).
Win while taking 0 damage (because of double-leech causing runaway shield growth).
Win 3-5 sea lair fights in a row, every turn.

In 1/2 a lap around a Large island, you could fight 30 sea lairs, win them all, and have enough T4/T5s to craft maximal Legendary weapons for 5 guys who didn't already have one.

After another 1/2 lap, your ship starts losing MPs from the dead weight of your excess T5s :steamhappy: Anything that isn't stone, bone, or an armor ingredient, ruthlessly craft into tools and jewellery. Maybe craft a 2nd Ship for double the capacity.

Invest in an L5 crafting tool first, to minimize your Trash% for all subsequent crafting.

~~~~~~~~

As pure nomad, it's fine to spend 20-40 little pauses of 2-5 turns each to gather-and-craft each stage of the next better stuff. That means you sit without breaking camp, so that your partial work persists. Some typical milestones:

+ 1st T1 tools
+ 1st T1 robes
+ 1st T2 topaz/topaz everything (both tools, robes, jewellery)
+ 1st T2 elemental stone/bone double-half-leech

N..B. 2H Axe and Relic can both do this with T2-improved (not even wilds), with only 2 AP in their branches (not 3). That means Blood Bone-Quartz. And they're light.

+ 1st Ship
+ 1st T3/T3 L1 legendary weapon
+ 1st T5/T4 crafting tool, from early loot

etc. Eventually, you will be mobile on a Ship, and then all of your work persists even as you sail around and explore or fight, so you can craft on the go.

N.B. if you're bored while sitting, you can always do an N-1 pop-out attack.
Inventory, Heroes tab, Transfer All Right, drag 1 guy left. He stays behind, to keep camp.
The other N-1 guys (with no food or fuel, not needed for a same-turn trip) can move, fight, return, and Join camp, all in the same turn. Then all partial camp work persists, but they got 1 free fight's worth of more XP and loot.

I'm trying this strategy and I'm still losing characters a lot in red-6 battles. The problem is that enemies have way more health than any character I've ever had, and they are extremely fast and 1-2 shot kill me. I have topaz robes for my weaklings, and pure heavy armor for my strength guys (3). I also have good topaz tools and jewelry on everyone, and using life/shield leech battle axes, and I'm about to make some relics for the casters.

I just feel I spend 200-300 turns in the game preparing for battles that are grossly overpowered for regular characters to handle.
Lorska Aug 11, 2022 @ 4:12pm 
If you have topaz armor 200-300 turns in that's your problem right there.
T2 is what you run around in turns 50-100.

If you wait too long to build things up, by the time you are at the level you wanted to be at the start of the whole process that level is very far behind the curve.

Another important thing to note is, if you aren't a physical based character, weapons might not be that useful. A lot of power for mental/spiritual characters is found in their skills. So leveling fast is very important.
I've spent a long time building relics just to have them be worse than the actual skills my characters have...
Artifacts for stat boosts or books for their varied effects tend to be a little more desirable.

A lot of the skill/knowledge in this game comes from knowing which fights you can take early, and building a good synergistic team to tackle it. Full on leech works up to a point. It can be somewhat of a trap, because it works extremely well as long as you have a slight advantage and can compensate for insufficient comp building or tactics. But if something unexpected happens this can come crashing down fast and hard.
What you'll often see if you rely on just one (leech based) character is that you win every fight effortlessly without taking any damage and suddenly you're in a fight you can't handle that easily and you just wipe with no chance of doing anything.

btw that doesn't mean you shouldn't go for it, shield leech is an incredibly busted effect. But don't let it get in the way of learning how to fight effectively.

In essence, be aggressive and learn what you can get away with.
Draetor Aug 11, 2022 @ 4:25pm 
On previous starts, I got early Mythical Leather on starter island. It allowed me to make really good robes, tools, artifacts, etc. However, this start I didn't have it - only topaz and granite (which is heavy as hell). By the time it takes me to gather enough topaz to make anything decent, then make a ship with some elven wood nearby, the game is 200 turns in.

At what turn should I be going to other islands? It doesn't seem to matter from what I noticed, as the enemies are always much stronger than I can handle. Since I need to resources from those islands to fight them, how does this balance out?
Lorska Aug 11, 2022 @ 5:00pm 
you don't need a great ship and you should only gather if you really need to. Sitting on an artifact and slowly gathering materials to outfit your group is extremely inefficient.
Go around and kill anything you can find, especially ruins and nests should be cleared, preferably while getting some rep with the locals for an extra child.

you can find sufficient wood on the way or just by gathering some at the end of turn. Don't sit down to gather a full T2 stack from nothing.

just use any remotely useful equipment you loot, break down or trade the rest, only gather to make up the difference or if you desperately need a certain piece of equipment. Outfitting your whole party with top of the line T2 is completely pointless, most of them shouldn't even take any damage and gearing up your gatherer for a fight is not gonna be worth the time investment. Especially not with T2 gear that doesn't have a lot of great options at that essence level.

If you intend to play as a nomad, don't stay in one place for ages, you're basically just playing bad village at that point. Your strong point is gaining tons of xp through events.

When you leave depends on your difficulty and what island you go for. All biomes have a minimum difficulty, so the best time to go there is when world difficulty hits that difficulty level. It's hard to estimate it but I'd say when the starter biome reaches the maximum it's a good time to leave, which would be around turn 100-150 (approximately).
The earlier you go, the harder it'll be obviously, but the more time you have in your new island while it's at its weakest to farm up and get stronger.

Really the most important thing is to only gather if you must or can without slowing you down.
Another really important trick is knowing that you can craft etc. on the sea too if your ship allows for it (the bigger ones), so you could invest a little more on your ship to then save time because you can just craft while travelling (it counts as permanently camped so you don't lose progress by moving).
Heau Aug 11, 2022 @ 6:08pm 
As Lorska pointed out, you can usually scrap by wielding items gathered from battles, events or trade for a good chunk of the early game. You can repeatedly trade with a town on the same turn to reset the shop offer. So particularly if you move to other biomes early enough and have a 1 movement point move to a city you are at least positive loyalty towards, you can a few turns spamming trades to try and get good upgrades.

If you are also very proactive and gather decent research points, you can consider teching a T5 mat and downgrading it into a T4 mat to craft an early shield/poison weapon. Teching the mat gives you 10 of it. You can even do T4 downgraded to T3 (stone) for a pure shielding if really desperate without T3 stone in sight.

I play my red challenges vastly differently from what Gilmoy described as it requires far fewer units to make work. Maybe this will help you.

Once I have the mats to craft a shielding spear (preferably shielding+poison > shielding + true dmg > shielding + whatever), my red challenges are played as follow

wait for AI to lay it's board and hoard my points until the end of the round
Play the single highest STR unit bearing the one powerful spear weapon I crafted 2-3 times and with the leftover points, either buff that unit, or debuff the enemies. If my "carry" is a bad unit like a human warrior or a skeleton, I will most likely play them once, then use 4 points to buff their strength and turn timer via human zercas, then play them a 2nd time. Even a bad human warrior played twice with a spear will generate enough shielding to take 0 dmg from red challenges. But it may take you several rounds redoing the same rinse+repeat to actually clear the challenge.

Even vs the ultra late game challenges red 15+, I usually have 1-2 "main carries" that get played on board 1-2 times each, and spare points for buffs and debuffs, heavily leaning on first strike (spear) to ensure enough shielding is built to avoid dying before acting.

This strategy is also viable for high INT classes with yellow challenges because shielding+poison weapons allow INT based yellow, even on a spear. But there are more yellow true dmg ennemies that pose a real threat.

In all of the above, spears can be replaced by javelins for PER scaling instead of STR scaling if you only have a hunter or bandit archer, and for WIS for shielding+poison (dual yellow mats). But those are less reliable as the game progresses because of the few enemies that have an ability to deal damage that ignores armor from hand (not being played on board) because red health pool needs STR to scale.
Last edited by Heau; Aug 11, 2022 @ 6:12pm
Rhapture Aug 12, 2022 @ 3:58pm 
Many times it depends on your starting group, if you haven't unlocked a few gods and character types it can be hard to progress fast with just basic types like warriors/gatherers. If your game isn't going anywhere , I have restarted just to get the god points and unlock a new card. While just about every run you will need physical characters, especially to start, focusing on only mental or spiritual is helpful. Getting friendly status with a faction besides Slavyan soon is also a good way to get an extra character and to upgrade some pets. Usually faction quests are not too hard.
DG Aug 13, 2022 @ 8:06pm 
The composite resources are really needed for the one ring, the top level village idol, and an ideal weapon for the chosen. Refining for those with coal is fine. Otherwise I would generally craft at either tier 3 or top legendary, not wasting good materials on anything less than endgame items.

The way to collect high level resources is to kill the wandering groups emerging from a very high level lair. Tough sea encounters can also provide a lot of loot.
< >
Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Aug 8, 2022 @ 4:24pm
Posts: 14