Criticism

[Izunyami]

IMO, Thea 1 was better and hopefully small issues can be addressed since this is still not fully released. In Thea 1, the atmosphere was way better and the difficulty felt right. When you messed up, you died. But you had a degree of control and could make risk assessments pretty well.

In Thea 2, it doesn't feel that way at all. It feels harder to judge how difficult a challenge/fight is, though that may just be me, but also it's annoying because of how Thea 2 is balanced. You can equip your characters as well/easily as you could in Thea 1. In Thea 1, I could focus my research on materials and still feel like my warriors were able to get basic warrior gear. My hunters felt like hunters. In Thea 2, research feels incredibly bottle-necked and the crafting system completely neutered in comparison. It is over-simplified, which hopefully will get expanded and feel less simplified, and constrains the early game into being practically a worthless part of the game outside of cooking food or making 1 set of tools.

Another issue is that, in Thea 1, it was fairly easy to build up your villagers and have, what feels like, a village. Getting children seems way more difficult/random and less often in Thea 2 and having enough people to do anything productive difficult. Thea 2 seems to have compensated the lack of villagers (I guess to simplify the macro management) by making your characters die not so often.

For instance: I built a village and got immediately attacked by bandits who were way better equipped than me. I didn't have enough research points to make even a quarter of the gear they had (statistically equivalently). I get killed. Ten times. Eventually I kill the group, even though my guys were attacked and murdered ten times, before losing one villager. This just feels really weird to me that my village can get raided repeatedly and only one person dies. And then losing that one person is huge because that's now 1/4, 1/5, 1/6 of your characters and getting another one is apparently difficult. I preferred Thea 1's method of dumping you with kids, who may or may not survive, but letting your characters die more often. A character with -20/25 HP shouldn't survive that number three times.

Also, high amounts of ''true'' damage is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. When warriors around turn 60 may have only 20-30 HP, a 12 damage demon wasp completely invalidates all equipment. What's the point in armor if the wasp will kill you in two hits anyway?

Also, it'd be nice to control who competes in challenges, if this low villager count is going to be a thing. When your gatherer in your village gets pulled into a combat three squares away, it's kind of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying when they get killed because of an unlucky combat encounter.. when they weren't even suppose to be near the combat. If I leave someone in the village, I don't want them exposed to danger outside the village.

tl;dr
Better research tree more like Thea 1
More kids, less not dying
Balanced combat that is more fair

[Morteon Eternity's Knight]

Totally agree with you on all points.

[Luceane]

Concerning the true damage of e.g. bees: how about using a little bit of tactics?
Head first same strategy over and over won't work as well in the second game, that should've become obvious quite quickly. There's scrolls to summon meat-shield-summons, there's pets you can summon, there's quick weapons which kill bees quite easily and which you should possess around wave ~60, there's slowing spells to give your warriors more time to finish those pesky bees and so on and so forth. There's really *a lot* you can do. Like so insanely much.

Also the crafting has become a fair bit more complex than it was in Thea 1, contrary to what you stated to be "oversimplified" - the current system allows for refinement, randomized resource usage which increases with higher crafting research, there's different types of essences for each and every object with various effects, there's many many more resources and still the game is missing quite the chunk of content, especially when it comes to research I imagine. It appears all the ritual based research is still missing and there will surely be more buildings to get as well.
The problem you addressed concerning research points is due to missing content / a bug, which you apparently didn't consider / think about or simply not notice. There's supposed to be a school - or later even different buildings - which let(s) you gain research points as an alternative to just combat and missions.

Imo from both reading and more closely looking at your words and thoughts your "criticism" doesn't appear to be wrought with too much consideration, it feels more like a rushed impulse and those are usually not nearly as useful as well thought out considerations. Maybe you should give both yourself and the *early access, 1 day after release* game some more time to elaborate.
I mean just look at the massive activity from both the players and the devs as well as their connection to the community. Highly active in the forums, day after day there's a lot of fixes coming in and that continuing is to be expected, regarding Thea 1.

[Izunyami]

Originally posted by Kyury:

Concerning the true damage of e.g. bees: how about using a little bit of tactics?

Sorry, I don't deal with elitist pricks who can't handle criticism of games. So I'm going to ignore the rest of your comment as it is almost assuredly full of nonsense.

[Luceane]

There's a load of options given to handle the situation at stake. If you choose to ignore all of these many options, that's your problem, not the game's fault.
I handled the criticism by properly responding to it, by giving contra examples, ideas and statements. "Handling criticism" is not equivalent to "accepting ciriticism" without second thoughts, which you seem to believe is the case. Besides - your impulsive first reaction is an emotional insult, that should tell one more than enough.

[Robineus]

I can see this going well, if you're not going to accept criticism of your criticism then don't bother posting in a discussion setting. Thea 1 is a finished product, this is early access we should accept that things are going to change as the balance is worked out.

[Izunyami]

Originally posted by Kyury:

not the game's fault.

Because every game is perfect and there's never tweaking that could be done. Hopefully someone who can actually have a decent discussion without condescension and blind fan-boying will come.

Sorry, I dealt with your kind enough with DOS2. Not dealing with your kind again.

we should accept that things are going to change as the balance is worked out.

How can the balance be worked out if the game can't be criticized?

[rahnauld]

Originally posted by Manannananam:

Originally posted by Kyury:

Concerning the true damage of e.g. bees: how about using a little bit of tactics?

Sorry, I don't deal with elitist pricks who can't handle criticism of criticisms. So I'm going to ignore the rest of your comment as it is almost assuredly full of nonsense.

If I change one word, you can see your argument is fallacious and can be applied to anything, even yourself.

[Luceane]

Originally posted by Manannananam:

How can the balance be worked out if the game can't be criticized?

How can you discuss anything if neither can you? You're difficult to talk to since your position is "I don't need to listen to anyone who doesn't reinforce my position". Additionally you're trying to see much more in those words than they bear.
You said they cannot be dealt with. I told you they can and I mentioned enough ways for doing so. This means your statement is indeed false - not the game's fault. That does not mean this point should not or cannot be criticized. These "tactics" might be difficult to find out and not user friendly, you could have a start that's ill-suited against this type of frequent enemies, these are both points which come immediately to my mind when thinking about the issue you mentioned, though one needs to differentiate more clearly and definitely less emotionally.

[Izunyami]

Originally posted by Robineus:

I can see this going well, if you're not going to accept criticism of your criticism then don't bother posting in a discussion setting. Thea 1 is a finished product, this is early access we should accept that things are going to change as the balance is worked out.

Actually, I would. Again, i sat through DOS2 and with people criticizing the armor system as not being done well and hordes of people going ''it's perfect, there's nothing wrong with it! It's a perfect game! You're just playing wrong!''

So yes, I'm going to ignore criticism that starts on ''you're not playing it correctly''. But ♥♥♥♥ it, I'll go through it. And for clarification:
''this is early access''
I already said that IN the first post, THE FIRST SENTENCE ''hopefully small issues can be addressed since this is still not fully released''. So, if you're going to ''criticize'' my criticism, maybe read more than half a sentence before you do.

[Izunyami]

Originally posted by Kyury:

Originally posted by Manannananam:

How can the balance be worked out if the game can't be criticized?

How can you discuss anything if neither can you? You're difficult to talk to since your position is "I don't need to listen to anyone who doesn't reinforce my position".

And your position is ''the game is perfect, learn to play better''. I hate talking to people like you who can't accept any criticism as valid.

You said they cannot be dealt with.

Except I didn't. Please, quote where I said ''they cannot be dealt with''. I explicitly called it ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ because it invalidated armor and health isn't something that you can easily buff. This is why I didn't want to give you three seconds of seriousness; your ''criticism'' is just stupidity, projection, and elitism.

Again, quote where I said ''they cannot be dealt with''.

[rahnauld]

It's clear you you want to feel heard, Manannanam. But why should anyone listen to you if you are demonstrating that you don't want anyone who disagrees with you to be heard?

Early access can be frustrating. I made some food that never appeared in my inventory. Waste of ingredients and time. Did I get mad? No, I submitted a bug report.

The difficulty is a bit high. I wanted to lower a slider so I could get more flavor from the game without having to focus on all the tactics. It's not in game yet. Did I get mad? No, but we could definitely use sliders like in Thea 1. My group always starts off completely pathetic in purple challenges (mystical). I realize if I accidentally choose one, I'm significantly set back. On the other hand, I'm learning the importance of placement, timing, and saving your instant casts for the end.

I suggest, that if you want your comment to be heard, remove any anger or frustration from it, outside of saying you felt angry or frustrated when x happened.

If you can't give feedback without insulting, I recommend that you go play something else and come back in a month and see how it feels then. I loved Thea 1. I'm very hopeful for Thea 2, and like you, I want for it to be lots of fun for me and others playing it. I recognize that as an early access player, I signed on for frustration and an incomplete game, but I know that by reporting bugs and giving constructive feedback, I can help the developer make the game better.

[Izunyami]

Originally posted by Kyury:

Also the crafting has become a fair bit more complex than it was in Thea 1, contrary to what you stated to be "oversimplified"

I never called the crafting system ''over-simplified''. I said it got neutered BECAUSE of the research system being over-simplified. Again, just further proof that elitist pricks like you, who fan-boy way too hard over games, are incapable of ''criticizing'' criticism. Your entire point from here is completely invalidated.

The problem you addressed concerning research points is due to missing content / a bug, which you apparently didn't consider / think about or simply not notice.

Apparently you can't read the first sentence where I explicitly state ''hopefully small issues can be addressed since this is still not fully released''. The first sentence. I also state '' It is over-simplified, which hopefully will get expanded and feel less simplified''. Note where I say ''hopefully will get expanded and feel less simplified''. But you're just too stupid and blind by ''muh game is perfect'' to read.

There's supposed to be a school - or later even different buildings - which let(s) you gain research points as an alternative to just combat and missions.

Again, doesn't address my criticism.

Maybe you should give both yourself and the *early access, 1 day after release* game some more time to elaborate.

First: a game that is ''released'' is not in early access. So maybe reword yourself. Second, reread the first sentence.

I mean just look at the massive activity from both the players and the devs as well as their connection to the community. Highly active in the forums, day after day there's a lot of fixes coming in and that continuing is to be expected, regarding Thea 1.

And why the ♥♥♥♥ do you think I'm putting in my opinion in? So that elitist pricks like you can completely ignore and straw-man me and tell me I'm wrong and the game is perfect? Or because I want to see the game get better by full release? Oh wait, you can't read the first sentence and think that I think it's fully released.

[Luceane]

I'll let you have the gratification of me not doing so, maybe that'll help you regain some 'sanity'.

[Aredrino]

Out of all the issues i have with the game so far, this was not one of them.

My biggest gripe? How the god-cards in the start of the game have things like. 'Four legged friend' and 'Doggo' but they are not companions like i thought.
Oh no, they are items.

The single most disappointing thing ever is when you expect to have an actual dog-character that levels up with your characters and instead it's a trinket.
That realisation made me quit. xD

[Izunyami]

Originally posted by rahnauld:

It's clear you you want to feel heard, Manannanam. But why should anyone listen to you if you are demonstrating that you don't want anyone who disagrees with you to be heard?

I couldn't care if it didn't start with ''muh game is perfect''. Except it did. Read the comment below yours, as well, and see that the entire comment, as I predicted, was completely wrong. Nothing in that comment was valid as ''counter criticism'' and were based on misunderstandings, straw-men, or just plain stupidity (like not being able to read the first sentence).

If you can't give feedback without insulting, I recommend that you go play something else and come back in a month and see how it feels then.

Sorry. Not dealing with the DOS2 ♥♥♥♥ again. That's why I explicitly was ignoring the comment.

giving constructive feedback, I can help the developer make the game better.

How can I give constructive feedback when, despite my first sentence starting with ''I know it's not fully released'', I get ''it's early access, of course there's problems lmao'' and ''well I know your problem is with how the research feels constraining, which may be because it's early access as you say, but here's why the crafting system is perfect. Man, your criticism is dumb, why would you think crafting is bad?''

Maybe y'all should give actual criticism.