Hard Mode and Late Game Ammo

[Fio]

I constantly run into this issue where even if I perfect Monolith, I always run out of ammo before killing the boss, and it turns floor 7 into an irritating slog.

Floor 7 is huge, and many rooms are erratic booby traps with the peashooter on Hard. Even getting to a new weapon might take a while as the weapon room might be on the other side of the floor.

Is this intended, or are players supposed to get there on Normal?

[Admiral Tipsy]

As you get into later floors (and loops) it's definitely a good idea to not only focus on the gun you have, but how efficiently it uses the ammo you have for it. My flowchart for the later loops was to settle on a weapon in the first 2-3 floors, then worry about keywords. Things like "shotgun style" or "shoots in bursts" can greatly increase the ammo efficiency of weapons like vulcan or pulsar, and "shoots in threes" plus "homing" can increase the mileage of razor or spears by quite a bit. A lot of the keywords can even alter the amount of ammo you have for them or how the ammo is used, so avoid things like "extra large" for blades and "arcs to enemies" for the burst shot, and instead opt for things like "instant recall" or "area of effect" to make each shot mean more. Prioritize those keywords as you get later into your run and that plus ammo max% drops can get you through the full playthrough most of the time. Also remember that there are times during boss fights where bosses take either reduced damage or no damage at all (usually during phase transitions) where simply not firing is better than wasting ammo.

If you find yourself still struggling and don't want to kill a good run, remember that if you exit to the menu and resume your run from there, you will start on the first room of the floor you're in with all of that floor's progress erased. It might be a little "cheap" but there were times on later floors where I just wouldn't get any good ammo drops, so I would scope out the rest of the floor, find where the ammo actually drops, then reset the floor and beeline to that room. I figure it's a feature, and the game throws enough insane stuff at you that it's fair game to use it to your advantage occasionally. Just be aware that if you want to attempt the trials you're limited to just your default weapon, so it might actually save you some time in the long run to tough it out and learn some bullet patterns. Good luck!

[Bartholomue]

Originally posted by Admiral Tipsy:

As you get into later floors (and loops) it's definitely a good idea to not only focus on the gun you have, but how efficiently it uses the ammo you have for it. My flowchart for the later loops was to settle on a weapon in the first 2-3 floors, then worry about keywords. Things like "shotgun style" or "shoots in bursts" can greatly increase the ammo efficiency of weapons like vulcan or pulsar, and "shoots in threes" plus "homing" can increase the mileage of razor or spears by quite a bit. A lot of the keywords can even alter the amount of ammo you have for them or how the ammo is used, so avoid things like "extra large" for blades and "arcs to enemies" for the burst shot, and instead opt for things like "instant recall" or "area of effect" to make each shot mean more. Prioritize those keywords as you get later into your run and that plus ammo max% drops can get you through the full playthrough most of the time. Also remember that there are times during boss fights where bosses take either reduced damage or no damage at all (usually during phase transitions) where simply not firing is better than wasting ammo.

If you find yourself still struggling and don't want to kill a good run, remember that if you exit to the menu and resume your run from there, you will start on the first room of the floor you're in with all of that floor's progress erased. It might be a little "cheap" but there were times on later floors where I just wouldn't get any good ammo drops, so I would scope out the rest of the floor, find where the ammo actually drops, then reset the floor and beeline to that room. I figure it's a feature, and the game throws enough insane stuff at you that it's fair game to use it to your advantage occasionally. Just be aware that if you want to attempt the trials you're limited to just your default weapon, so it might actually save you some time in the long run to tough it out and learn some bullet patterns. Good luck!

This is great advice and exactly how I tackle ammo. The resetting of floors can indeed be useful, but be warned that it doesn't always work! Fighting endgame bosses and during certain challenges added into the latest update, resetting will completely delete the run.

[Fio]

My point is that it isn't fun, and that inevitably, most guns will run out of ammo on Monolith and to a degree, the Machine. The boss fights are just that long.

I just don't feel like playing the basic ships (Null, D13) over the others if I want to go through floor 7. Skully keeps his shot type, Overlord always has the sword, Armsmaster can manage.

[GuyYouMetOnline]

You may need to learn to manage your ammo better. I can generally get through the 6F boss with ammo left, no problem. The Packrat upgrade is very helpful here, too. but basically, if you see ammo in a shop (although those don't usually shop up on 6F) ,save it until you're low. Also, don't discount the ammo restore option after minibosses. It can also be smart to save them until right before you do the boss, so you can guarantee a good ammo supply. I also tend to wait to open weapon chests until I'm running low, then I'll have a new weapon with full ammo if I need it.

Playing Armsmaster, if you have it, also helps. Two weapons means twice the ammo, after all.