Frightfur Tiger vs Slash Dragon

[GoreTiger]

Something I don't understand about this situation:
Frightfur Tiger states that you can target cards on the field up to the number of fusion material used for it's fusion summon and destroy them.

Red Eyes Slash Dragon's ability specifically states that as long as I have a warrior or equip card attached to it, It can negate and destroy cards that target it.

More then once now I've had a Frightfur Tiger target my slash dragon and I'm not given the option to activate Slash Dragon's counter and destroy it. Nothing else on Tiger's description states that it's abilities can't be negated. Am I missing something here or is this a bug for right now?

[Cig Bock]

chainblocked by something like fluffal cat maybe?

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Probably because it states it's targeting cards on the field up to the number of material used for it's Fusion Summoning and not specifically a card you control which is how Slash pops it's effect

[GoreTiger]

Originally posted by Will Smithro:

Probably because it states it's targeting cards on the field up to the number of material used for it's Fusion Summoning and not specifically a card you control which is how Slash pops it's effect

It still has to target them, Which is how Slash activates it's counter. There are other cards with similier effects which Slash can counter so it doesn't make sense it can't counter frightfur

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Originally posted by GoreTiger:

Originally posted by Will Smithro:

Probably because it states it's targeting cards on the field up to the number of material used for it's Fusion Summoning and not specifically a card you control which is how Slash pops it's effect

It still has to target them, Which is how Slash activates it's counter. There are other cards with similier effects which Slash can counter so it doesn't make sense it can't counter frightfur

Its targeting cards not your cards that's the key difference, as for similar effects you're gonna need to give examples

[Daemonologist]

Targeting occurs at activation red-eyes slash dragon only requires that at least 1 of their cards on the field is targeted for it's negation effect to be activated in response, it must however be activated in direct response to the effect targeting said card(s).

The issue is likely that frightfur tiger is chain link 1 and fluffal cat (or some other trigger effect with the same timing, but cat is most likely) is chain link 2 meaning there is no valid response window for red-eyes slash dragon's negation effect as it must be chain directly to tiger's effect targeting one of its player's cards, cat's effect only targets a card in the grave so isn't a valid effect to respond to.

This might be referred to as 'chain blocking' (cat blocks tiger from being directly responded to due to SEGOC rulings meaning all trigger effects that meet their timing go on the chain before any quick effects can be activated - there is no response window for any such simultaneous trigger effects other than the last one added to that chain) or even 'missing timing' due to red eyes slash dragon's negation effect being a 'when...you can' effect (so must be chained directly to an effect that meets the activation condition otherwise it cannot be activated)

[GoreTiger]

Originally posted by Will Smithro:

Originally posted by GoreTiger:

It still has to target them, Which is how Slash activates it's counter. There are other cards with similier effects which Slash can counter so it doesn't make sense it can't counter frightfur

Its targeting cards not your cards that's the key difference, as for similar effects you're gonna need to give examples

This makes no sense tho, considering Frightfur's user still gets to specifically choose which cards to target, which is exactly what slash dragon is supposed to be able to counter. There are trap cards with similer effects which SD can negate so it doesn't make sense that it couldn't negate Frightfur, because either way the user is still selecting which specific cards are targeted.

Originally posted by Daemonologist:

Targeting occurs at activation red-eyes slash dragon only requires that at least 1 of their cards on the field is targeted for it's negation effect to be activated in response, it must however be activated in direct response to the effect targeting said card(s).

The issue is likely that frightfur tiger is chain link 1 and fluffal cat (or some other trigger effect with the same timing, but cat is most likely) is chain link 2 meaning there is no valid response window for red-eyes slash dragon's negation effect as it must be chain directly to tiger's effect targeting one of its player's cards, cat's effect only targets a card in the grave so isn't a valid effect to respond to.

This might be referred to as 'chain blocking' (cat blocks tiger from being directly responded to due to SEGOC rulings meaning all trigger effects that meet their timing go on the chain before any quick effects can be activated - there is no response window for any such simultaneous trigger effects other than the last one added to that chain) or even 'missing timing' due to red eyes slash dragon's negation effect being a 'when...you can' effect (so must be chained directly to an effect that meets the activation condition otherwise it cannot be activated)

I guess this could explain it when Fluffal is in effect but what about when it's not?

[Cig Bock]

Originally posted by GoreTiger:

I guess this could explain it when Fluffal is in effect but what about when it's not?

then i think we will need a replay, i cannot think of another way for frightfur tiger to bypass the negate other than by chainblock it, there is the effect of cards like amano iwato that prevent SD from negates but it would also prevent the fright/flufs to activate their effects, or maybe your opponent had activated card like dark ruler no more to negate SD's effect entirely, there's also non targeting destruction but thats cruel whale's, not tiger

[Daemonologist]

Chain blocking definitely seems by far the most likely scenario...but if we rule that out...

It's not simple effect negation, as that would still give the prompt and allow activation of slash dragon's negate when tiger activates its effect, it'd just pay the cost (i.e. sending an equip card you control to the grave) and fail to negate tiger due to red eyes slash dragon itself being negated.

Activation prevention like amano iwato is a possibility, noting that tiger's is going through though - possibilities include the buster blader dragon destroyer fusion (edited: meant fusion not synchro...), or battle phase flash/necro fusion with something like odd-eyes meteorburst or armades applying their continuous effects during the fusion.

Simply not controlling a valid equip card that can be sent to the grave to pay the cost when tiger's effect is activated would do it too, but that should be fairly obvious...

There's also the possibility the toggle button for activation confirmation is being used and is simply set to OFF, which prevents quick effect prompts like red-eyes slash dragon's negate effect from appearing (but not trigger effect prompts like red-eyes slash dragon's other 2 effects) until it is changed back to Auto or ON.

[Lucas@NBATV]

I mean the same thing would happen with Chaos Dragon Levianeer and chain popping right? I dont think you'd be able to pop its effect due to the chain blocking with another card. This was huge with Chaos Dragon Levianeer and Thunder Dragons before it got hit by the banlist.

[Hraesvelg]

Originally posted by So Lonely:

I mean the same thing would happen with Chaos Dragon Levianeer and chain popping right? I dont think you'd be able to pop its effect due to the chain blocking with another card. This was huge with Chaos Dragon Levianeer and Thunder Dragons before it got hit by the banlist.

This one is different ,It wouldn't be able to negate at all since Levi effect is non targeting.

[Cig Bock]

Originally posted by So Lonely:

I mean the same thing would happen with Chaos Dragon Levianeer and chain popping right? I dont think you'd be able to pop its effect due to the chain blocking with another card. This was huge with Chaos Dragon Levianeer and Thunder Dragons before it got hit by the banlist.

more like marjoram chainblocking our cavalry so that dried winds could go through *warflashback