Why does Floodgate trap hole affect monsters that are immune to card effects?

[UltimateSWX]

Edited for clarity:

Floodgate Trap Hole affects cards like Red Eyes Slash Dragon and Blue Eyes Chaos Max Dragon that are immune to targeting of card effects from spell/traps and monster effects. It however doesn't work on cards like Jinzo that prevent trap cards from activating or Sorcerer of Dark Magic that negates trap card effects. It feels like the ruling for this card is inconsistent. Is it the same in TCG or is Duel Links' programming just a bit wonky?

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Jinzo isn't immune to traps, its effect makes so you can't activate them when they are on the field

[UltimateSWX]

Originally posted by Spooky Fur Missile:

Jinzo isn't immune to traps, its effect makes so you can't activate them when they are on the field

So would Floodgate trap hole work on it?

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Originally posted by UltimateSWX:

Originally posted by Spooky Fur Missile:

Jinzo isn't immune to traps, its effect makes so you can't activate them when they are on the field

So would Floodgate trap hole work on it?

... It wouldn't activate that's what I am saying, you layed it on the field I pop Jinzo you can no longer activate a single trap that is on that field

[UltimateSWX]

Originally posted by Spooky Fur Missile:

Originally posted by UltimateSWX:

So would Floodgate trap hole work on it?

... It wouldn't activate that's what I am saying, you layed it on the field I pop Jinzo you can no longer activate a single trap that is on that field

What about cards like Sorcerer of Dark Magic that negate trap cards? You can still technically activate them.

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Originally posted by UltimateSWX:

Originally posted by Spooky Fur Missile:

... It wouldn't activate that's what I am saying, you layed it on the field I pop Jinzo you can no longer activate a single trap that is on that field

What about cards like Sorcerer of Dark Magic that negate trap cards? You can still technically activate them.

Sorcerer negates 1, and it destroys it. It's just a Shi En for DM decks

Jinzo's effect flat out says you can not activate traps on the field and all trap cards effects on the field are negated. Nothing can be activated or used that is a trap as long as its on the field. Cards like Sorcerer are not immune to effects of traps they just cancel the card and destroy it

[⛤ .katia ˚⊹]

Originally posted by Spooky Fur Missile:

Originally posted by UltimateSWX:

So would Floodgate trap hole work on it?

... It wouldn't activate that's what I am saying, you layed it on the field I pop Jinzo you can no longer activate a single trap that is on that field

u can active all traps which was set in the same time when jinzo was summoned and u can negate jinzo summon

[DUBINA]

Originally posted by UltimateSWX:

Is this ruling only affect card's that say "immune to card effects" or does it apply to cards that are specifically immune to traps like Jinzo?

you need to fix this post, we cant go guessing what you are talking about unless you explain exactly which cards were involved.

[⛤ .katia ˚⊹]

Card that negate his summon such as Pollinosis, Solemn Warning and Solemn Judgment can still be used on Jinzo because "negate the summon" means that Jinzo is technically not on the field yet, meaning its effect isn't in place.

In duel links u can use almost all traps on jinzo.

[EternalPeace]

Jinzo has a continuous effect that states all Trap cards cannot be activated. The only trap card that could respond to the summon of Jinzo would be a counter trap that stops summons as counter traps that stop summons prevent them from officially being on the field. Traps like floodgate do not negate the summon and therefore are helpless before Jinzo.

Sorcerer of Dark Magic is Spell Speed 2 which allows him to chain his effect to the activation of Floodgate Trap Hole (another SS2 card). Sorcerer of Dark Magic could not chain to a counter trap card as counter trap cards are Spell Speed 3.

[Chaos Epoch]

Floodgate traphole does not target any monsters. It's effect states that it works whenever a monster is summoned.

[Soda]

Originally posted by UltimateSWX:

Edited for clarity:

Floodgate Trap Hole affects cards like Red Eyes Slash Dragon and Blue Eyes Chaos Max Dragon that are immune to targeting of card effects from spell/traps and monster effects. It however doesn't work on cards like Jinzo that prevent trap cards from activating or Sorcerer of Dark Magic that negates trap card effects. It feels like the ruling for this card is inconsistent. Is it the same in TCG or is Duel Links' programming just a bit wonky?

Hi, Official TCG Judge here:

Floodgate Trap Hole is a Non-Targeting Summon interference trap card. The reason it works on cards that cannot be targeted (Red-Eyes Slash is NOT immune by the way) is because it does not use the word "target", rather it states "that monster".

The reason it works on Jinzo, Sorcerer, and similar cards is because Trap Hole triggers DURING the summon. Meaning that the card it's affecting in question is not technically on the field yet for its effect to come into effect. All monster effects that just declare the monster can do things are treated as activating (or non-activating if there's no ":" like Jinzo) continuous effects. Since they're continuous, the same ruling applies as if they were continuous spells or traps. If they weren't able to resolve their summon (or activation), then the effect is nulled.

tl;dr - It works because the monster is technically not on the field yet to prevent the effect.

Hope this helped, happy dueling!
- Your one and only local TCG Judge.

[EternalPeace]

Originally posted by Discord-chan:

Originally posted by UltimateSWX:

Edited for clarity:

Floodgate Trap Hole affects cards like Red Eyes Slash Dragon and Blue Eyes Chaos Max Dragon that are immune to targeting of card effects from spell/traps and monster effects. It however doesn't work on cards like Jinzo that prevent trap cards from activating or Sorcerer of Dark Magic that negates trap card effects. It feels like the ruling for this card is inconsistent. Is it the same in TCG or is Duel Links' programming just a bit wonky?

Hi, Official TCG Judge here:

Floodgate Trap Hole is a Non-Targeting Summon interference trap card. The reason it works on cards that cannot be targeted (Red-Eyes Slash is NOT immune by the way) is because it does not use the word "target", rather it states "that monster".

The reason it works on Jinzo, Sorcerer, and similar cards is because Trap Hole triggers DURING the summon. Meaning that the card it's affecting in question is not technically on the field yet for its effect to come into effect. All monster effects that just declare the monster can do things are treated as activating (or non-activating if there's no ":" like Jinzo) continuous effects. Since they're continuous, the same ruling applies as if they were continuous spells or traps. If they weren't able to resolve their summon (or activation), then the effect is nulled.

tl;dr - It works because the monster is technically not on the field yet to prevent the effect.

Hope this helped, happy dueling!
- Your one and only local TCG Judge.

You can't activate Floodgate when Jinzo is summoned. Sorcerer would be able to negate too. Floodgate does not negate the summon of the monster and they are able to hit the board. Floodgate cannot activate due to Jinzo's continuous effect and Sorcerer can negate Floodgate as they are face up on the field. Jinzo and Sorcerer are considered on the field when played if no counter traps or Quick Effects have responded to have prevented their summon. Floodgate does not interrupt their summon. Their summon is the condition for Floodgate Trap Hole's activation. Floodgate triggers AFTER the successful summon.

Now if the opposing player had used a Spell Speed 3 card to stop their summon, they could do that as those cards (counter traps) prevent the monster from being on the field in the first place.

[Chaos Epoch]

Originally posted by Grilled Chicken Bowl:

Originally posted by Discord-chan:

Hi, Official TCG Judge here:

Floodgate Trap Hole is a Non-Targeting Summon interference trap card. The reason it works on cards that cannot be targeted (Red-Eyes Slash is NOT immune by the way) is because it does not use the word "target", rather it states "that monster".

The reason it works on Jinzo, Sorcerer, and similar cards is because Trap Hole triggers DURING the summon. Meaning that the card it's affecting in question is not technically on the field yet for its effect to come into effect. All monster effects that just declare the monster can do things are treated as activating (or non-activating if there's no ":" like Jinzo) continuous effects. Since they're continuous, the same ruling applies as if they were continuous spells or traps. If they weren't able to resolve their summon (or activation), then the effect is nulled.

tl;dr - It works because the monster is technically not on the field yet to prevent the effect.

Hope this helped, happy dueling!
- Your one and only local TCG Judge.

You can't activate Floodgate when Jinzo is summoned. Sorcerer would be able to negate too. Floodgate does not negate the summon of the monster and they are able to hit the board. Floodgate cannot activate due to Jinzo's continuous effect and Sorcerer can negate Floodgate as they are face up on the field. Jinzo and Sorcerer are considered on the field when played if no counter traps or Quick Effects have responded to have prevented their summon. Floodgate does not interrupt their summon. Their summon is the condition for Floodgate Trap Hole's activation. Floodgate triggers AFTER the successful summon.

Now if the opposing player had used a Spell Speed 3 card to stop their summon, they could do that as those cards (counter traps) prevent the monster from being on the field in the first place.

The wording of the activation condition for Floodgate is "When your opponent Summons a monster(s): Change that monster... etc etc etc." It does not negate or interfere with the summon in anyway, nor does it activate *after* the summon has been completed successfully, as you suggest. It activates as the monster is being summoned or attempted to be summoned, therefore the effects of the monster(s) getting hit with the effect of floodgate will never get a chance to counteract the traps activation or effect.

The only thing I can think of that would work in this context here would be monster cards that specifically say something along the lines of "Card effects cannot be triggered in response to this card being summoned" such as from Obelisk, or whatever it says.

[EternalPeace]

Originally posted by Chaos Epoch:

Originally posted by Grilled Chicken Bowl:

You can't activate Floodgate when Jinzo is summoned. Sorcerer would be able to negate too. Floodgate does not negate the summon of the monster and they are able to hit the board. Floodgate cannot activate due to Jinzo's continuous effect and Sorcerer can negate Floodgate as they are face up on the field. Jinzo and Sorcerer are considered on the field when played if no counter traps or Quick Effects have responded to have prevented their summon. Floodgate does not interrupt their summon. Their summon is the condition for Floodgate Trap Hole's activation. Floodgate triggers AFTER the successful summon.

Now if the opposing player had used a Spell Speed 3 card to stop their summon, they could do that as those cards (counter traps) prevent the monster from being on the field in the first place.

The wording of the activation condition for Floodgate is "When your opponent Summons a monster(s): Change that monster... etc etc etc." It does not negate or interfere with the summon in anyway, nor does it activate *after* the summon has been completed successfully, as you suggest. It activates as the monster is being summoned or attempted to be summoned, therefore the effects of the monster(s) getting hit with the effect of floodgate will never get a chance to counteract the traps activation or effect.

The only thing I can think of that would work in this context here would be monster cards that specifically say something along the lines of "Card effects cannot be triggered in response to this card being summoned" such as from Obelisk, or whatever it says.

https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Jinzo_Vs_Trap_Hole

"Trap Hole" activates after the Summon has been completed. "Jinzo" has been Summoned, so he is face-up on the field, so his effect is applied. Thus, you cannot activate "Trap Hole".

Trap Hole has the same condition.

For trap hole's timing, the monster summon must have been successful.

You simply can't activate Floodgate because by the time Floodgate would be able to activate, Jinzo is "on the field".