Limit Special Summons, Solve Power Creep

[Sov]

Seriously, this game had the chance to ignore the years and years and years of power creep that has existed in this game. Why is Konami so greedy that they cannot be bothered to actually balance this game so that the same problems that happened to the real TCG doesn't happen here.

This is why Yu-Gi-Oh has been a laughing stock for years, the constant power creep and selling of power at the actual cost of player skill (because all you need to do to win this game is copy a deckbuild from an asian meta player on the internet).

Its really sad that Konami are like this. In my opinion, limiting special summons to 1 per turn could solve a lot of the problems that Konami implemented with the TCG and make ALL duel links decks competitive, not just the ones that spam out the most effects and monsters.

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Zoltrixer:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Burning Victory:

Lol no it won't, the game is fine as it is your definition of healthy is what is more questionable and any form of limitation just makes the game much more slow than it should

Nonsense. You're not even trying to put forth a decent argument. It is a fact that having limited resources and options makes the game healthier as the player has to think of how to use those resources instead of just hoping to draw the winning hand once the deck has been set up and that the opponent won't draw it. Limitations would reduce the impact of luck on the game, and the side consequence of the duels taking more turns would do so, as well. Moreover, it is clear that the game taking more turns, even if it's the same length in total, feels better for the player who doesn't want to spend ten minutes doing nothing or just reacting instead of acting, and it makes the turns mechanic that the game has actually visible. Now, off to more serious posts.

Opprinnelig skrevet av BostonGroundz.FiFi:

That does not make sense and it would cripple the Syncrho and XYZ decks.. Imagine normal summoning a monster, special summoning another, only for you to stop there because you already used your once per turn special summoning.. So, now you have to wait til your next turn to Synchro or XYZ summon? Really? We'll be stuck with old school 1monster+1equip spell, Fusion summon and Burn Decks if that ever happens which is not healthy at all for the game..
I think, the most important question of all is "What deck are you playing" that forced you to make a post like this??? What bracket are you on, Rookie or KOG or in between?? Are you new to Duel Links???

I also do not think that there should be a hard cap on all special summoning. Things like fusion or synchro summoning should have some exceptions because doing them takes more effort and precision (though that is also kind of dropping with some of the newer cards allowing players to summon whatever they want using whatever they want). Furthermore, some decks that would otherwise be unable to function with these sort of limitations could also have a "this special summon effect does not count towards the limit", "these multiple special summons count as one towards the limit" or something similar in its card text to help them out. Obviously, some decks that would stick out as too powerful could get handled the usual way, through the ban and limitation list, or through some other creative way. In fact, the ban and limitation list in Duel Links are a great example of how adding in limitations helps the game's health, as it is clearly superior to how it's done in the TCG, allowing for more different cards to be played.

Limited resources is what the Forbidden/Limited list is all about, we are talking about a mechanic, and once again answer what the definition of healthy is instead of completely avoiding it. All you are basically doing is skipping around and using vague definitions. The game so far has been healthy for months, no real powercreep and plenty of options for viable decks that can match at a decent level. Also limitations won't reduce luck it would only increase luck, Yugioh started on nothing but luck so they added in the most broken cards imaginable 1 of them being the most simple card to use, now you actually have to set up in order to get somewhere which requires a good hand which requires luck and consistency

[Zoltrixer]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Burning Victory:

Limited resources is what the Forbidden/Limited list is all about, we are talking about a mechanic, and once again answer what the definition of healthy is instead of completely avoiding it. All you are basically doing is skipping around and using vague definitions. The game so far has been healthy for months, no real powercreep and plenty of options for viable decks that can match at a decent level. Also limitations won't reduce luck it would only increase luck, Yugioh started on nothing but luck so they added in the most broken cards imaginable 1 of them being the most simple card to use, now you actually have to set up in order to get somewhere which requires a good hand which requires luck and consistency

I'm not your parent. Go consult them or a dictionary if you need an explanation of some words. "Also limitations won't reduce luck it would only increase luck" - you're spouting nonsense again, I'll just not write anything else and ignore you this time. I've already said my piece. If you're unable to comprehend that, either, that's your problem.

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Zoltrixer:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Burning Victory:

Limited resources is what the Forbidden/Limited list is all about, we are talking about a mechanic, and once again answer what the definition of healthy is instead of completely avoiding it. All you are basically doing is skipping around and using vague definitions. The game so far has been healthy for months, no real powercreep and plenty of options for viable decks that can match at a decent level. Also limitations won't reduce luck it would only increase luck, Yugioh started on nothing but luck so they added in the most broken cards imaginable 1 of them being the most simple card to use, now you actually have to set up in order to get somewhere which requires a good hand which requires luck and consistency

I'm not your parent. Go consult them or a dictionary if you need an explanation of some words. "Also limitations won't reduce luck it would only increase luck" - you're spouting nonsense again, I'll just not write anything else and ignore you this time. I've already said my piece. If you're unable to comprehend that, either, that's your problem.

Lol you are the one saying game health and limited resources as though it means something, either define the terms you keep using or stop using them period. The one who always shouts at those to make proper responses only rebuts with "a bunch of nonsense", summary of your entire existence in this thread so far

[Kero Kero]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Burning Victory:

How is limiting Special Summoning to 1 per turn any different than normal summoning? The entire point of Special Summoning was to be a completely different alternative to normal summoning, all you are doing with this new rule is just making Special Summoning the same as Normal Summoning, like why not just ban Special Summoning and allow players to Normal Summon twice per turn no matter what, it's the same thing. Oh and will this Special Summon rule apply to any ED means, cause those are special summoning as well

Also if Yugioh is a laughing stock why do you care about it, also what player skill? Original Yugioh had no skill just luck, now of days you money luck and a brain

Well if you used your head a little you'd know removing special summons isn't the same as just normal summoning twice because Fusions, and Rituals and Synchros and all the rest of those extra summoning mechanics all count as specials too. 1 Special per turn is still an Extra summon you wouldn't otherwise have with the 1 normal a turn limit.

Seriously, Think, THEN speak. It works better that way

[Kero Kero]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Burning Victory:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Diamond #NCLHC:

you just wanted Gen 1 Yugioh where people did nothing but rely on luck and the same copy pasted deck with the same broken cards,

Isn't .... that what the game is now ? :P

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Keero Kamiya:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Burning Victory:

How is limiting Special Summoning to 1 per turn any different than normal summoning? The entire point of Special Summoning was to be a completely different alternative to normal summoning, all you are doing with this new rule is just making Special Summoning the same as Normal Summoning, like why not just ban Special Summoning and allow players to Normal Summon twice per turn no matter what, it's the same thing. Oh and will this Special Summon rule apply to any ED means, cause those are special summoning as well

Also if Yugioh is a laughing stock why do you care about it, also what player skill? Original Yugioh had no skill just luck, now of days you money luck and a brain

Well if you used your head a little you'd know removing special summons isn't the same as just normal summoning twice because Fusions, and Rituals and Synchros and all the rest of those extra summoning mechanics all count as specials too. 1 Special per turn is still an Extra summon you wouldn't otherwise have with the 1 normal a turn limit.

Seriously, Think, THEN speak. It works better that way

Derp Derp

Why do you think I asked several times for them to clarify? I know Ritual Fusion Synchro Xyz is special summoning ya derp, but do they know it is? If so then what they said is even dumber cause basically no ED summoning til your next turn, also it still is the same as normal summoning twice all you have to do is list anything ED related as a normal summon

Don't tell others to think before speaking when you have never once done that

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Keero Kamiya:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Burning Victory:

Isn't .... that what the game is now ? :P

That's what the game is except this time you have way more variety instead of the exact same cards in every single deck with maybe some variations, meta will always happen but this time you have meta choices, or you can play stall or rogue decks, back then everybody was using the same cards in the same deck

Also game barely relies on luck, if you have consistency then luck shouldn't be an issue

[Kero Kero]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Obsidian Dragoon:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Shark:

Even if I compared it to poker, as I explained above it still wouldn't accurately reflect the state of the TCG. I used the term "game health" for a reason. It doesn't just reflect on the balance of the game, but the longevity and how it can easily be disrupted. Pendulums were, in a large way, proof of how far the power creep is going. Konami literally had to introduce more mechanics to keep the game interesting, something that will eventually occur again when people are sick of Link monsters. The relaxation of restrictions towards extra deck monsters simply reduces the reliance on Links, yet it doesn't change how Links modified how the game is played.

Okay so explain "Rush duels" where they simplified everything ? How's that "advancing the mechanics" ?

[Kero Kero]

You know what I'd do to fix the special summon spamming is just make it have a generic cost. 1 For every 1 special summon lose 1 chance to attack that turn, at least then if you DO fill your board with monsters you can't just blow past your opponent's LP and insta win you have to wait a bit but you Still maintain the deck's ability to do what it does see ?

So it becomes a balance of "Okay if I special this many times this turn, I can only attack this many times. Do I want more summons or more attacking ?" 5 monster zones max, so 5 attacks max per turn save for cards that can attack multiple times a round. That can easily be fixed by adjusting the rules so multi hit cards are the only cards that can attack.

so 3 special summons limits your opening play to 2 attacks. Can you still WIN on that turn ? Sure with enough ATK but is it AS easy to do so ? Maybe maybe not. But it's better than what we have now.

[Shark]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Keero Kamiya:

You know what I'd do to fix the special summon spamming is just make it have a generic cost. 1 For every 1 special summon lose 1 chance to attack that turn, at least then if you DO fill your board with monsters you can't just blow past your opponent's LP and insta win you have to wait a bit but you Still maintain the deck's ability to do what it does see ?

So it becomes a balance of "Okay if I special this many times this turn, I can only attack this many times. Do I want more summons or more attacking ?" 5 monster zones max, so 5 attacks max per turn save for cards that can attack multiple times a round. That can easily be fixed by adjusting the rules so multi hit cards are the only cards that can attack.

so 3 special summons limits your opening play to 2 attacks. Can you still WIN on that turn ? Sure with enough ATK but is it AS easy to do so ? Maybe maybe not. But it's better than what we have now.

So basically backrow and cards like kiteroid become more effective due to restricted attacks and Mayakashi would again take the L because they might be about special summoning but not about swarming the field with strong monsters. Yep definitely better

[EXO]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Keero Kamiya:

You know what I'd do to fix the special summon spamming is just make it have a generic cost. 1 For every 1 special summon lose 1 chance to attack that turn, at least then if you DO fill your board with monsters you can't just blow past your opponent's LP and insta win you have to wait a bit but you Still maintain the deck's ability to do what it does see ?

So it becomes a balance of "Okay if I special this many times this turn, I can only attack this many times. Do I want more summons or more attacking ?" 5 monster zones max, so 5 attacks max per turn save for cards that can attack multiple times a round. That can easily be fixed by adjusting the rules so multi hit cards are the only cards that can attack.

so 3 special summons limits your opening play to 2 attacks. Can you still WIN on that turn ? Sure with enough ATK but is it AS easy to do so ? Maybe maybe not. But it's better than what we have now.

2 reasons why this is stupid:
1- Huge benefit if you go 1st with a deck that can spam special summons and control the board with monsters and backrow, for example Karakuri (not the best example because of the next banlist, but the point is the same)
2- OTK decks would dissapear because they use multiple special summons to win in one turn for example Onomat, Heros, Dragunity, Infernity etc...

[Zoltrixer]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Burning Victory:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Zoltrixer:

I'm not your parent. Go consult them or a dictionary if you need an explanation of some words. "Also limitations won't reduce luck it would only increase luck" - you're spouting nonsense again, I'll just not write anything else and ignore you this time. I've already said my piece. If you're unable to comprehend that, either, that's your problem.

Lol you are the one saying game health and limited resources as though it means something, either define the terms you keep using or stop using them period. The one who always shouts at those to make proper responses only rebuts with "a bunch of nonsense", summary of your entire existence in this thread so far :cleanseal:

I gave you a non-answer to your non-answer. I already said what I had to say and you had no argument against it, so you can re-read it if you're interested and also consult your parents and the dictionary if you're confused about some words or sentences instead of trying to get back at me with more nonsense. No, I don't need to define every word I use in a forum so that a random teenager who didn't read enough books can understand it.

Opprinnelig skrevet av Keero Kamiya:

You know what I'd do to fix the special summon spamming is just make it have a generic cost. 1 For every 1 special summon lose 1 chance to attack that turn, at least then if you DO fill your board with monsters you can't just blow past your opponent's LP and insta win you have to wait a bit but you Still maintain the deck's ability to do what it does see ?

So it becomes a balance of "Okay if I special this many times this turn, I can only attack this many times. Do I want more summons or more attacking ?" 5 monster zones max, so 5 attacks max per turn save for cards that can attack multiple times a round. That can easily be fixed by adjusting the rules so multi hit cards are the only cards that can attack.

so 3 special summons limits your opening play to 2 attacks. Can you still WIN on that turn ? Sure with enough ATK but is it AS easy to do so ? Maybe maybe not. But it's better than what we have now.

I don't think number of attacks as a cost is a great idea, because there's already quite some protection from attacks and the current limit seems fine. The only thing that would be useful would be more "this card cannot attack/use its effect the turn it is summoned" on the powerful monsters to slow decks from using a hundred effects per turn or reducing the LP to 0 in a single turn, though I also think there are better solutions to the effect part which I won't put in this thread because it'd be off-topic.

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Zoltrixer:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Burning Victory:

Lol you are the one saying game health and limited resources as though it means something, either define the terms you keep using or stop using them period. The one who always shouts at those to make proper responses only rebuts with "a bunch of nonsense", summary of your entire existence in this thread so far

I gave you a non-answer to your non-answer. I already said what I had to say and you had no argument against it, so you can re-read it if you're interested and also consult your parents and the dictionary if you're confused about some words or sentences instead of trying to get back at me with more nonsense. No, I don't need to define every word I use in a forum so that a random teenager who didn't read enough books can understand it.

Opprinnelig skrevet av Keero Kamiya:

You know what I'd do to fix the special summon spamming is just make it have a generic cost. 1 For every 1 special summon lose 1 chance to attack that turn, at least then if you DO fill your board with monsters you can't just blow past your opponent's LP and insta win you have to wait a bit but you Still maintain the deck's ability to do what it does see ?

So it becomes a balance of "Okay if I special this many times this turn, I can only attack this many times. Do I want more summons or more attacking ?" 5 monster zones max, so 5 attacks max per turn save for cards that can attack multiple times a round. That can easily be fixed by adjusting the rules so multi hit cards are the only cards that can attack.

so 3 special summons limits your opening play to 2 attacks. Can you still WIN on that turn ? Sure with enough ATK but is it AS easy to do so ? Maybe maybe not. But it's better than what we have now.

I don't think number of attacks as a cost is a great idea, because there's already quite some protection from attacks and the current limit seems fine. The only thing that would be useful would be more "this card cannot attack/use its effect the turn it is summoned" on the powerful monsters to slow decks from using a hundred effects per turn or reducing the LP to 0 in a single turn, though I also think there are better solutions to the effect part which I won't put in this thread because it'd be off-topic.

Lol you at this point refuse to read anything, answer my questions what do you mean by your definition of game health and limited resources and yes you do need to define words you use in a forum cause you clearly don't know what those words mean if you can't even use them properly. Limited resources is forbidden/limited list so define what you mean by limited resources otherwise your entire argument is not only wrong but also irrelevant to the topic

[Soda]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Burning Victory:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Zoltrixer:

I gave you a non-answer to your non-answer. I already said what I had to say and you had no argument against it, so you can re-read it if you're interested and also consult your parents and the dictionary if you're confused about some words or sentences instead of trying to get back at me with more nonsense. No, I don't need to define every word I use in a forum so that a random teenager who didn't read enough books can understand it.



I don't think number of attacks as a cost is a great idea, because there's already quite some protection from attacks and the current limit seems fine. The only thing that would be useful would be more "this card cannot attack/use its effect the turn it is summoned" on the powerful monsters to slow decks from using a hundred effects per turn or reducing the LP to 0 in a single turn, though I also think there are better solutions to the effect part which I won't put in this thread because it'd be off-topic.

Lol you at this point refuse to read anything, answer my questions what do you mean by your definition of game health and limited resources and yes you do need to define words you use in a forum cause you clearly don't know what those words mean if you can't even use them properly. Limited resources is forbidden/limited list so define what you mean by limited resources otherwise your entire argument is not only wrong but also irrelevant to the topic

this ^

This isn't magic or hearthstone with a mana system. This is a game where if you can play it, you can play it. I like yugioh for that exact reason. OP, if you don't like it, don't play.

[Zoltrixer]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Burning Victory:

Lol you at this point refuse to read anything, answer my questions what do you mean by your definition of game health and limited resources and yes you do need to define words you use in a forum cause you clearly don't know what those words mean if you can't even use them properly. Limited resources is forbidden/limited list so define what you mean by limited resources otherwise your entire argument is not only wrong but also irrelevant to the topic

At this point, just like before, I refuse to act as your parent and explain you what words mean. I've said this multiple times, but it seems you are unable to understand this, as well, sadly. The forbidden/limited list is one way of limiting the resources in this game, but it is not the only way present or possible. "I don't understand words/phrases that you use therefore your argument is wrong and irrelevant" - this is ridiculous, I haven't read or heard something this asinine in a very long time. For an explanation of this, you can read up about the personal incredulity fallacy that you are making with what you've said.

Opprinnelig skrevet av メイドの召喚獣ーレイ:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Burning Victory:

Lol you at this point refuse to read anything, answer my questions what do you mean by your definition of game health and limited resources and yes you do need to define words you use in a forum cause you clearly don't know what those words mean if you can't even use them properly. Limited resources is forbidden/limited list so define what you mean by limited resources otherwise your entire argument is not only wrong but also irrelevant to the topic

this ^

This isn't magic or hearthstone with a mana system. This is a game where if you can play it, you can play it. I like yugioh for that exact reason. OP, if you don't like it, don't play.

The opening poster never even said that they don't like playing this game. Instead, he/she made a suggestion on how he/she thinks that it could be improved, quite possibly because they like it and want it to be even better.

As for taking things from other games or even just taking them as an example, there's really nothing wrong with that as long as it's not too unoriginal and contradictory to the game's core identity. You could argue something similar to claim the opposite, too. "This isn't a random mobile game where there's constant power creep and not much care about game balance or health" - something like that, for example.