Can't activate quick-play spell cards in response to NORMAL TRAPS?|

[󠀡]

This game is stupider every second. The rules are so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ convoluted that what you think you should be able to do you can't do because of no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ explained reason.

Event:

-My monster attacks his monster
-He activates Metal Morph
-I have a set Enemy Controller that has been set for 4 turns
-My monster dies, no option to activate enemy controller in response to metal morph and switch his card to defense position and allowing me to destroy both the monster and metal morph

Metal Morph is a normal trap and Enemy Controller is a Quick-play

I should be able to activate Enemy Controller in response to trap activation.

So why couldn't I this time?

Also, having the same problem with other quick-play spell cards like Twister.

[Mewtwo_soul]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Uncle Barry:

Początkowo opublikowane przez --------:

whoever said that e-con can't be activated in the battle phase is WRONG...i've suffered from cheesy e-con takes in the BATTLE phase so yeah...it should work offensively and defensively in the battle phase

They are talking about during the damage step. Which is retarded that some cards can be activated and some cards can't.. Quick-play spell cards should always be able to activate in response to a trap or spell card.

The reason it's done like this is to make sure defensive play has an advantage as well as offensive play. If offensive play (counter acting a trap) always has the advantage back row would be meaningless. More so than it is in the real TCG thanks to certain factors.

[mimizukari]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Uncle Barry:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Discord-chan:

How...... how do you not know what is essentially a basic rule after playing for 10 years?

It's not. There are so many rules that are not written in any rule book and the only way to find them is searching 3rd Party Wiki's for some invented rule.

they aren't invented rules. This is how the game is meant to be played. Judges have set the precedence, and they are set. The game wouldn't function right if you could do some stuff in damage step for instance.

[Aigle1705]

uncle barry, you missunderstand the meaning of dmg step itself.
in dmg step the attack already took place,
dmg step is only the calculation between both hitting statz ( atk or def ) n but their values can still bechanged in this phase

even if you could econ in that phase it wouldnt change anything, cause the battlepositions n belonging values are already locked for calculation.

bout to be fair yes these rules aint in the beginner guild, as you find them in structure decks.üähttp://www.yugioh-card.com/ygo_cms/ygo/all/uploads/EN-YS17-Beginner-Guide.pdf
the different battle steps aint even mentioned at all, neither the mainphase steps.

but to be honest, 10 years of TCG with out ever reading the actual rulebook? srsly?

[󠀡]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Aigle1705 GER:

uncle barry, you missunderstand the meaning of dmg step itself.
in dmg step the attack already took place,
dmg step is only the calculation between both hitting statz ( atk or def ) n but their values can still bechanged in this phase

even if you could econ in that phase it wouldnt change anything, cause the battlepositions n belonging values are already locked for calculation.

bout to be fair yes these rules aint in the beginner guild, as you find them in structure decks.üähttp://www.yugioh-card.com/ygo_cms/ygo/all/uploads/EN-YS17-Beginner-Guide.pdf
the different battle steps aint even mentioned at all, neither the mainphase steps.

but to be honest, 10 years of TCG with out ever reading the actual rulebook? srsly?

I`ve had many decks, packs, and boxes. Three different rule books and played 4 different video games.

Never have I played with this rule or many of the rules that are in this game. Never been challenged.

[Tim Timsen]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Uncle Barry:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Tim Timsen:

Sounds more like you haven't put any effort into understanding the game (and its rules) in those 10 years.
I mean, if you refuse to learn how to hit a nail with a hammer properly, and if you keep hitting your hand, then it's neither the hammer's nor the nail's fault.

Hitting a nail with a hammer is straight forward. Your analogy is terrible.

Just like your whining about a problem that you caused yourself.

[arandompersons]

if you are wondering what it would be like if every card could be activated during the damage step... just watch bakugan.

[DollSkin]

Necro...

[OG Formosity]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Uncle Barry:

Like I said, Convoluted and stupid. This is my MTG is the superior game.

LOL MTG sucks...esspecially the new game that I stopped playing in closed better after the first day. Yugioh>Legends>MTG>Hearthstone

[󠀡]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Nightcore-Live:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Uncle Barry:

Like I said, Convoluted and stupid. This is my MTG is the superior game.

LOL MTG sucks...esspecially the new game that I stopped playing in closed better after the first day. Yugioh>Legends>MTG>Hearthstone

But the rules are clear.

Phase->Step->Stack Resolutions

Spells can only be played during your turn during your main phase and cannot be activated if something else is on the stack.

Activated Abilities and Instants can be played anytime during the step in response to anything as long as there is no other card that says otherwise.

There is a clear and concise dictionary of terminology.

Nothing is left to interpretation and rulings aren't abstract non-sense such as in "Yu-Gi-Oh!".

[Chillum]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Uncle Barry:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Nightcore-Live:

LOL MTG sucks...esspecially the new game that I stopped playing in closed better after the first day. Yugioh>Legends>MTG>Hearthstone

But the rules are clear.

Phase->Step->Stack Resolutions

Spells can only be played during your turn during your main phase and cannot be activated if something else is on the stack.

Activated Abilities and Instants can be played anytime during the step in response to anything as long as there is no other card that says otherwise.

There is a clear and concise dictionary of terminology.

Nothing is left to interpretation and rulings aren't abstract non-sense such as in "Yu-Gi-Oh!".

Is that why magic's comprehensive rulebook is so large?

Also magic has THE EXACT SAME RULE. So, you did a great job knowing that TCG as well? The only difference being that yu gi oh will allow you to change the cards attack power or defense power during damage.

510.2. Second, all combat damage that’s been assigned is dealt simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. No player has the chance to cast spells or activate abilities between the time combat damage is assigned and the time it’s dealt.

[󠀡]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Chillum:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Uncle Barry:

But the rules are clear.

Phase->Step->Stack Resolutions

Spells can only be played during your turn during your main phase and cannot be activated if something else is on the stack.

Activated Abilities and Instants can be played anytime during the step in response to anything as long as there is no other card that says otherwise.

There is a clear and concise dictionary of terminology.

Nothing is left to interpretation and rulings aren't abstract non-sense such as in "Yu-Gi-Oh!".

Is that why magic's comprehensive rulebook is so large?

Also magic has THE EXACT SAME RULE. So, you did a great job knowing that TCG as well? The only difference being that yu gi oh will allow you to change the cards attack power or defense power during damage.

510.2. Second, all combat damage that’s been assigned is dealt simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. No player has the chance to cast spells or activate abilities between the time combat damage is assigned and the time it’s dealt.

Yeah. Exactly. That means any cards played CAN be countered BEFORE damage is dealt.

It DOESN'T mean that SOME CARDS are PROTECTED from being countered during a step because of some obscure ruling.

I've read the MTG rule book, the BASIC RULE BOOK that comes with the beginner pack and the WOTC MTG COMP RULE BOOK and both have enough of rules to understand the game.

The other one is for specific ruling about Terminology and how it interacts with the game.

But the basic rules apply to all the cards and can be easily understood and followed so you aren't suprised by additional rules that apply to "some cards" but not others especially when "those cards" do not have any special indicator or terminology.

If a card that changes Attack and Defense that can be activated and not countered like a normal trap/counter trap then it should be labeled as a special card with its own specific ruling.

The rule of "these but not those" makes the rule come off as an after-thought, which it is.

It also makes some "defensive" cards extremely overpowered as that they can literally not be countered. You can only pray to have enough mitigation ready to deal with the after effect.

In this quick-play format, mitigation to such a heavy (attack)defense is usually not possible.

The fact is, that the cards change attack power of attack position monsters who are on the defensive end of an attack. The attack power change cannot be countered and in this format, in itself, makes attack power changes of defending monsters over powered.

There is no second main phase so there is no chance to set a defense for yourself.

If the rule was that only changes to DEFENSE POSITION MONSTERS were allowed with this ruling: I am sure that would be ok and it would give you an opportunity to counter any future changes to the attack before an attack takes place.

[Chillum]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Uncle Barry:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Chillum:

Is that why magic's comprehensive rulebook is so large?

Also magic has THE EXACT SAME RULE. So, you did a great job knowing that TCG as well? The only difference being that yu gi oh will allow you to change the cards attack power or defense power during damage.

510.2. Second, all combat damage that’s been assigned is dealt simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. No player has the chance to cast spells or activate abilities between the time combat damage is assigned and the time it’s dealt.

snip

Correct, cards can be played BEFORE. Its just that this specific type of card that effects damage can happen during damage step. Its a yu gi oh loophole.

I was just pointing out that the MTG rule is almost the exact same, the only difference is that yu gi oh has this loophole. So I don't really see why you're confused with not being able to play spells during damage step.

Similiar to defusion allowing de targetting of monsters.

Yes, not having a mp2 does hinder quite a bit of gameplay and makes certain strategies extremely strong.

[󠀡]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Chillum:

Its a yu gi oh loophole.

I was just pointing out that the MTG rule is almost the exact same

Yes, not having a mp2 does hinder quite a bit of gameplay and makes certain strategies extremely strong.

Well, saying in your last post that it IS the exact same and saying in this one that they are ALMOST the exact same... is not the same.

My point is: This "loophole" shouldn't exist in the first place. It turns a defense into a overpowered offense. The point of counter cards is to make it that there is a defense to every offense and Counter Counter cards so there is a defense to offensive defenses and overpowered defenses.

This "loophole" is counter-intuitive to consistency. These "loophole" cards aren't specially marked and their ruling isn't in any basic ruleset that I have played with.



Even the official rules for the game 2002 English release state:

Battle Step: ... You and your opponent may both play Quick-Play Spell and/or Trap Cards.

Damage Step: Calculate the damage points of the designated Monsters. If a Monster has a Flip Effect : apply it immediately after damage calculation.

End Step: ... You and your opponent may both play Quick-Play Spell and/or Trap Cards.


Now, those are the rules I have ALWAYS played with. Nowhere does it say that trap cards can be activated during the Damage Step and applied before damage is calculated. That ruling is ridiculous and honestly stupid.

Source: YU-GI-OH! Prima's Official Yugioh Trading Card Game Rule Book

[Shan]

How is it counterintuitive? Honestly, the concept makes sense to me. You get a last minute powerboost on your monster as either a means of offense or defense, and anything that can't interrupt it immediately can't be activated since damage is already in the process of being calculated.

If anything, it opens up a whole bunch of Damage Step shenanigans where skillful play is being rewarded.

And the rule has been there since forever, just because you don't remember doesn't mean it shouldn't be a thing in the first place.

[󠀡]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Shan:

How is it counterintuitive? Honestly, the concept makes sense to me. You get a last minute powerboost on your monster as either a means of offense or defense, and anything that can't interrupt it immediately can't be activated since damage is already in the process of being calculated.

If anything, it opens up a whole bunch of Damage Step shenanigans where skillful play is being rewarded.

And the rule has been there since forever, just because you don't remember doesn't mean it shouldn't be a thing in the first place.

It's the opposite of skillful play. It puts in something that allows abuse of a mechanic and the mechanic itself is ♥♥♥♥.

"I can play this trap card during the damage step even though it's just a regular trap card and you can't counter it because I am activating it during the Damage Step so you technically have no counter."

"You under estimate me, Yugi! You activated 'F*ck this stupid ass game!' It allows me to just walk away and I just don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about dumb rules made up on the fly."