Is Magician's Navigation, a Snapshot of everything wrong with Modern Yu-Gi-Oh?

[Sov]

Magician's Navigation is a trap card (which some people argue is a weakness in the real game because the game has become so laden with power creep that most duels are a coin-flip, over on turn one and traps require one turn to set up. So people in the real game consider traps "slow", so much that Konami had to create traps that arn't really traps and can be used from the hand "Evenly Matched etc"), which is an example of everything wrong with modern yugioh.

The effect of the card really is not the issue, the issue is the complete lack of cost to summon a 2500 beatstick that can be used easily as a combo piece. The same problem exists with Blue-Eyes Alternative Dragon (which in my opinion has the most hilarious lack of cost I've ever seen in the game - Show your opponent one normal blue eyes).

Are these cards too toxic for Duel Links as they exist in a modern point of the real TCG where power creep has become such an issue, summoning a 3000 Atk monster on the first turn is considered no real deal?

Add to that, the pure pay to win nature of the Dark Magician and Blue Eyes Decks, as well as the addition of several "modern" archtypes which are also overladen with effects, compensation effects for when you lose and even more simple summoning conditions (Elementsabers etc) and it has created the same toxic environment for Duel Links where everyone plays the same deck and there is a total lack of variation.

It just creates a state of "have" vs "have not" and makes the game almost impossible to actually enjoy.

Do people feel that having to buy the same and play the same as everyone else to actually win is ultimately self-defeating?

Should Konami institute some kind of ranked queue that bans current existing meta decks, similar to how Smogon does tier based tournaments in the Pokemon scene? So that everyone can enjoy the game without having to play against the same deck over and over again? Everyone wins that way since the hardcore "meta" players can have their queue and people who want to play more casually or with more interesting decks can still remain competetive?

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

So you want to make bad players feel good instead of getting good?

Adorable, and I didn't thought you could get lower than you already did so far....

Where do I need to place the expectation bar for you people to no longer manage to reach underneath it? At the bottom of the Mariana Trench?

Also, I know this will trigger you, but modern Yu-Gi-Oh has the highest amount of skill expression the game ever had, sure, that's less accentuated in DL because we don't have as many good cards as we need right now, but that's the truth. Whoever thinks that Caveman Yu-Gi-Oh had more skill expression is just deluding themselves, then again, can't stop those with delusions of grandeur.

And while yes, I agree that the meta needs a small shift, it should be done by giving us better cards like Ash.

Traps are slow, because you start with one less card. Here's 2 examples from the TCG to properly explain it: Book of Moon and Upstart Goblin. Book of Moon is a quick-play spell that puts a monster on the field in facedown, it's limited, because it's too good, while Paleozoic Canadia, the trap equivalent of Book of Moon is barely played, mostly (if at all) used in Frog decks. Upstart Gobling is a Draw 1 spell card that gives your opponent 1000 LP as well, it's limited, while Jar of Greed, it's trap equivalent never sees play.

Traps are slow because you start with 1 less card in your hand, as you can't use them, so they either need overpowered effects or be handtraps.

[MancakeBR]

Originally posted by I:P マスカレーナ:

So you want to make bad players feel good instead of getting good?

Adorable, and I didn't thought you could get lower than you already did so far....

Where do I need to place the expectation bar for you people to no longer manage to reach underneath it? At the bottom of the Mariana Trench?

Also, I know this will trigger you, but modern Yu-Gi-Oh has the highest amount of skill expression the game ever had, sure, that's less accentuated in DL because we don't have as many good cards as we need right now, but that's the truth. Whoever thinks that Caveman Yu-Gi-Oh had more skill expression is just deluding themselves, then again, can't stop those with delusions of grandeur.

And while yes, I agree that the meta needs a small shift, it should be done by giving us better cards like Ash.

Traps are slow, because you start with one less card. Here's 2 examples from the TCG to properly explain it: Book of Moon and Upstart Goblin. Book of Moon is a quick-play spell that puts a monster on the field in facedown, it's limited, because it's too good, while Paleozoic Canadia, the trap equivalent of Book of Moon is barely played, mostly (if at all) used in Frog decks. Upstart Gobling is a Draw 1 spell card that gives your opponent 1000 LP as well, it's limited, while Jar of Greed, it's trap equivalent never sees play.

Traps are slow because you start with 1 less card in your hand, as you can't use them, so they either need overpowered effects or be handtraps.

I don't believe Duel Links as of right now is ready for Ash Blossom, since a lot of decks are still heavily reliant on their search cards to even play sometimes. Effect Veiler or Ghost Ogre, sure, but not Ash Blossom.

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Remember when Ultimate Offering was a thing

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by WM1Pyro:

I don't believe Duel Links as of right now is ready for Ash Blossom, since a lot of decks are still heavily reliant on their search cards to even play sometimes. Effect Veiler or Ghost Ogre, sure, but not Ash Blossom.

No, we need Ash.

Veiler is nice, Ghost Ogre is ok, but we need Ash.

Almost all searches bar Magician's Rod are done by spell cards. Veiler does nothing against spells, and Ogre is also useless against them, because the spell card needs to be already on the field when the effect is used, so chaining it to the activation does nothing.

[1WingedAngel]

Navigation is a great trap, but it's not 'toxic'. Summoning a 2500atk monster is fine, but not hugely threatening. As a boss monster DM has pretty weak stats, which is why it needs the army of support cards it currently has to make the deck work. Navigation had very little impact when it came into the game (although special summoning from the deck and having a spell/trap negate are great effects). DM Circle is what makes the trap so effective, but even then the deck is weak to bricking and any form of spell/trap removal.

As to BE alternative dragon, yes it's a very easy special summon but the card isn't really in the game, it's locked behind a character skill, and even then can only be summoned onto the field. Yes the opponent can return it to the hand, or you can add it back from the GY to your hand with an effect, but the fact that it takes that much work to get it back to your hand for the easy summon means it's not really toxic/problematic IMO.

It's true that dueling the same small pool of P2W decks can become dull, but that hasn't really been my experience recently due to the variety of rouge decks. I think the game is pretty F2P friendly, except at the most competitive level (the next stage of the KC for example). One of the most powerful and commonly played decks currently in the game (Shiranui) is very F2P.

I'd love to see changes to the ranked system as you suggest. Basically ANYTHING other than the stale tedious mess we have atm. If you hit KOG one month you start the next month at Plat 6, so after a few duels you're just back to sweaty Legends again, which makes it difficult to test out new or experimental decks, and then once you hit KOG there's basically nothing to do.

[kawhi]

It's funny before circle no one complained about navigation since DM was such a bad deck it couldn't compete with anything. People been using navi and dm for a loooonnnggg time, but as soon as it becomes viable now it's suddenly a problem lol

[Soda]

Originally posted by kawhi:

It's funny before circle no one complained about navigation since DM was such a bad deck it couldn't compete with anything. People been using navi and dm for a loooonnnggg time, but as soon as it becomes viable now it's suddenly a problem lol

It's almost as if Navigation *isn't* the problem card.

[Impetus]

Magician Navigation and Cybernetic Overflow are both obviously OP trap cards that don't let your opponent play. with Overflow, just pop their entire field turn 2, and with Navigation, negate any defense they have left turn 3 after banishing with Circle. they should've gotten a semi-limit to 2 before the KC Cup

[MancakeBR]

Originally posted by Impetus:

Magician Navigation and Cybernetic Overflow are both obviously OP trap cards that don't let your opponent play. with Overflow, just pop their entire field turn 2, and with Navigation, negate any defense they have left turn 3 after banishing with Circle. they should've gotten a semi-limit to 2 before the KC Cup

Treacherous Trap Hole is better than Cybernetic Overflow (in my opinion) as it requires 0 set up.

[Soda]

Originally posted by WM1Pyro:

Originally posted by Impetus:

Magician Navigation and Cybernetic Overflow are both obviously OP trap cards that don't let your opponent play. with Overflow, just pop their entire field turn 2, and with Navigation, negate any defense they have left turn 3 after banishing with Circle. they should've gotten a semi-limit to 2 before the KC Cup

Treacherous Trap Hole is better than Cybernetic Overflow (in my opinion) as it requires 0 set up.

TTH is also generic and doesn't require a specific archetype.

[MancakeBR]

Originally posted by メイドの召喚獣ーレイ:

Originally posted by WM1Pyro:

Treacherous Trap Hole is better than Cybernetic Overflow (in my opinion) as it requires 0 set up.

TTH is also generic and doesn't require a specific archetype.

Just more reasons why its a lot better than Overflow.

[Sov]

Originally posted by WM1Pyro:

Originally posted by メイドの召喚獣ーレイ:

TTH is also generic and doesn't require a specific archetype.

Just more reasons why its a lot better than Overflow.

But its much slower and can be negated. Nav's graveyard effect cannot be (believe me, I've tried with counter-traps) so essentially, its uncounterable and thats the issue I have with it. Plus its overloaded.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Greyfell:

Originally posted by WM1Pyro:

Just more reasons why its a lot better than Overflow.

But its much slower and can be negated. Nav's graveyard effect cannot be (believe me, I've tried with counter-traps) so essentially, its uncounterable and thats the issue I have with it. Plus its overloaded.

Chaos Hunter? A F2P card.

As long as she's on the field, the opponent can't banish cards, if they can't banish Navigation, they can't use the negation effect, and since they can't banish, they can't use Circle on her either.

[1WingedAngel]

Originally posted by WM1Pyro:

Originally posted by メイドの召喚獣ーレイ:

TTH is also generic and doesn't require a specific archetype.

Just more reasons why its a lot better than Overflow.

It's true TTH can be used in any deck as not tied to an archetype which makes it a great staple for Duel Links, but in my opinion/experience, Overflow is a MUCH better card.

Treacherous - it targets, can't be searched, semi-limited, only targets monsters, usually can't be used more than once per duel (unless you have means to remove the first copy from your GY, or you activate the first copy in response to Cosmic etc. but very unusual to use more than once per duel)

Cybernetic - non-targeting destruction making it difficult to respond to, can be easily searched with Core, destroys monsters and spell/traps, not limited and no restrictions so pretty easy to pull off 3 times in a duel. As a bonus you get a deck search if it's destroyed (whereas if treach is destroyed you now have a trap in the GY, making your 2nd copy a dead card)

As you say it requires a little set up, yet remains a very common early game play for CD players, especially since they can use materials from field, hand and GY (plus the variety of monsters treated as CD, and the skill that spawns them).

Also banishing the materials is hardly a cost as the quickplay fusion spell uses banished materials, a common play being to activate it in the end phase of the turn they use Overflow to wipe out any backrow you may have remaining with Rampage dragon.

So while it's archetype specific, Overflow is just way more powerful.

[MancakeBR]

Originally posted by Greyfell:

Originally posted by WM1Pyro:

Just more reasons why its a lot better than Overflow.

But its much slower and can be negated. Nav's graveyard effect cannot be (believe me, I've tried with counter-traps) so essentially, its uncounterable and thats the issue I have with it. Plus its overloaded.

Its not overloaded O-o, its Cybernetic Overflow m8 I play Cyber Dragons I should know lol