Invoked Engine should not be as efficient as it is

[Obsidian Dragoon]

Just need to draw any Aleistar and have 1 Invoked in your deck to just continually recycle the cards and easily keep pumping out fusions.

Love how Konami hesitates to actually hit problem cards in most decks.

Seriously, just put both Aleistar and Invocation at Limited 2.

Aleistar is easily searched with the right skill in the right deck. Invocation stays the 1 off card only to be played once you've drawn any of your Aleistar cards. And you only need one of each to run the combo anyway.

[[絶望] 𝔖𝔲𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞𝔩_ℑ𝔡𝔬𝔩]

never attempt to balance something in your life if you think this would be the right course of action

[Soda]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Busty Demoness:

Seriously, just put both Aleistar and Invocation at Limited 2.

Aleistar is easily searched with the right skill in the right deck. Invocation stays the 1 off card only to be played once you've drawn any of your Aleistar cards.

But..there's 1 aleister. How do you draw any of your aleister cards when there's 1?

[Obsidian Dragoon]

Początkowo opublikowane przez カクリヨノチザクラ:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Busty Demoness:

Seriously, just put both Aleistar and Invocation at Limited 2.

Aleistar is easily searched with the right skill in the right deck. Invocation stays the 1 off card only to be played once you've drawn any of your Aleistar cards.

But..there's 1 aleister. How do you draw any of your aleister cards when there's 1?

Never heard of Skills? You can use one to search out spellcasters.

[Obsidian Dragoon]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ||eXz|| .xAʟYssᴀ // 構文:

never attempt to balance something in your life if you think this would be the right course of action

Maybe instead of claiming I'm wrong, you put up some evidence that the engine should be so strong that it is not only splashed but easily carries the rest of the deck.

[[絶望] 𝔖𝔲𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞𝔩_ℑ𝔡𝔬𝔩]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Busty Demoness:

Początkowo opublikowane przez ||eXz|| .xAʟYssᴀ // 構文:

never attempt to balance something in your life if you think this would be the right course of action

Maybe instead of claiming I'm wrong, you put up some evidence that the engine should be so strong that it is not only splashed but easily carries the rest of the deck.

i did in the banlist post already, you kill the archetype with these changes and you boost every other deck that Invoked counters or soft counters passively by not touching them, i said multiple times i agree with the statement that Invoked shouldn't be in DL bc it's insanely broken in this format but w/o Invoked every deck that hasn't been hit gets boosted by an insane amount and i play much rather against Invoked than Blue Eyes with their stupid endless recycle of Alt Dragon or Shiranui and their Sunsaga Turn 1, bc 1 monster that can't be targeted is much easier than every single Blue Eyes card that can't be targeted etc.
Also i really don't understand how ppl still have problems with E-Saber/Invoked, there are so many techs against them that you can fit into basicly every single deck.

[[絶望] 𝔖𝔲𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞𝔩_ℑ𝔡𝔬𝔩]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Busty Demoness:

Never heard of Skills? You can use one to search out spellcasters.

the skill got nerfed and is now too slow in the current meta.

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Even the fights are boring, how lame

[[絶望] 𝔖𝔲𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞𝔩_ℑ𝔡𝔬𝔩]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Moo Neko:

Even the fights are boring, how lame

make something spicy then

[Obsidian Dragoon]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ||eXz|| .xAʟYssᴀ // 構文:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Busty Demoness:

Maybe instead of claiming I'm wrong, you put up some evidence that the engine should be so strong that it is not only splashed but easily carries the rest of the deck.

i did in the banlist post already, you kill the archetype with these changes and you boost every other deck that Invoked counters or soft counters passively by not touching them, i said multiple times i agree with the statement that Invoked shouldn't be in DL bc it's insanely broken in this format but w/o Invoked every deck that hasn't been hit gets boosted by an insane amount and i play much rather against Invoked than Blue Eyes with their stupid endless recycle of Alt Dragon or Shiranui and their Sunsaga Turn 1, bc 1 monster that can't be targeted is much easier then every single Blue Eyes card that can't be targeted etc.
Also i really don't understand how ppl still have problems with E-Saber/Invoked, there are so many techs against them that you can fit into basicly every single deck.

It's a splashed archetype in the first place. And a SPLASHED archetype has no business being so strong it carries the rest of the deck with ease. And if you've already admitted that Invoked has no business being in Duel Links, then why are you complaining about a change that severely limits its power by hitting the truly problematic cards?

Here's the criteria for why it should be hobbled as I described:

- Capable of carrying an entire deck with only 2 main deck cards.
- Easily splashed into other decks because of how few cards need to go into the main deck.
- Deck size is small enough that you don't need to run more than 2 Aleistar and 1 Invocation for the engine to be effective.
- Extra Deck does not need to be fully committed to Invoked fusions for Engine to be effective
- You can't just destroy the fusion targets either, since Invocation will always be used for an Invoked monster and that means the monsters will need to be bounced or banished to prevent use as a material.

And just so we're clear, you're a hypocrite if you think it's wrong to cripple a support archetype that's outright carrying decks that otherwise won't see any success when the success is solely based on the splashed support rather than the merits of the rest of the deck.

[Obsidian Dragoon]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ||eXz|| .xAʟYssᴀ // 構文:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Busty Demoness:

Never heard of Skills? You can use one to search out spellcasters.

the skill got nerfed and is now too slow in the current meta.

Still not as slow as other skills that are meta, such as Cyber Style or Grit.

[[絶望] 𝔖𝔲𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞𝔩_ℑ𝔡𝔬𝔩]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Busty Demoness:

It's a splashed archetype in the first place. And a SPLASHED archetype has no business being so strong it carries the rest of the deck with ease. And if you've already admitted that Invoked has no business being in Duel Links, then why are you complaining about a change that severely limits its power by hitting the truly problematic cards?

Here's the criteria for why it should be hobbled as I described:

- Capable of carrying an entire deck with only 2 main deck cards.
- Easily splashed into other decks because of how few cards need to go into the main deck.
- Deck size is small enough that you don't need to run more than 2 Aleistar and 1 Invocation for the engine to be effective.
- Extra Deck does not need to be fully committed to Invoked fusions for Engine to be effective
- You can't just destroy the fusion targets either, since Invocation will always be used for an Invoked monster and that means the monsters will need to be bounced or banished to prevent use as a material.

And just so we're clear, you're a hypocrite if you think it's wrong to cripple a support archetype that's outright carrying decks that otherwise won't see any success when the success is solely based on the splashed support rather than the merits of the rest of the deck.

bc i believe there is much worse to come and i believe that the complete destruction of an archetype is never the answer, Invoked is strong but at least in it's current state you can deal with it, unlike some of the other archetypes that might or might not come to DL in the future and if you have problems with strong engines then i really hope you're not planning on sticking around for XYZ bc this will prob be the worst experience for you all depending on what we end up getting but since one Mekk-Knight has been leaked already feel free to read up on them and ask yourself if Invoked is really that bad or read up on the other Orcust cards.

Regarding your criterias:
#1: they're not, you need Aleister at least as a x2 and 1x Invocation + the fusion monster and monster that hit the attribute requirements, so oyu need much more than just 2 cards.
#2: if you really believe this then ok but that instantly means rip so many other cards.
#3: most ppl run 3 and 2 but ok i let that one stand.
#4: true but that is mainly bc we don't even have the other 2 main Invokeds and the only Invoked monster that are worth being run are Cocytus and Purga, Caliga is a nice to have but far from necessary and Magellanica is just a beat stick that Purg does better in most cases.
#5: Not always + you can use stuff like Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell or Void Trap Hole or Forbidden Lance on Invoker to prevent that it can be targeted w/ Invocation, this is what i meant, there are soo many techs against E-Saber/Invoked or Invoked in general that i really don't know how ppl still struggle against them.

Why does that make me a hypocrite? That makes no sense.

[[絶望] 𝔖𝔲𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞𝔩_ℑ𝔡𝔬𝔩]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Busty Demoness:

Początkowo opublikowane przez ||eXz|| .xAʟYssᴀ // 構文:

the skill got nerfed and is now too slow in the current meta.

Still not as slow as other skills that are meta, such as Cyber Style or Grit.

Cyber Style is slow? Do we play the same game? 1 Cyclone and oyu're good to go, how the f*ck is that slow? and Grit is a passive skill, how is that slow? This is like saying LP Alpha is slow, that comment makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Obsidian Dragoon]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ||eXz|| .xAʟYssᴀ // 構文:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Busty Demoness:

It's a splashed archetype in the first place. And a SPLASHED archetype has no business being so strong it carries the rest of the deck with ease. And if you've already admitted that Invoked has no business being in Duel Links, then why are you complaining about a change that severely limits its power by hitting the truly problematic cards?

Here's the criteria for why it should be hobbled as I described:

- Capable of carrying an entire deck with only 2 main deck cards.
- Easily splashed into other decks because of how few cards need to go into the main deck.
- Deck size is small enough that you don't need to run more than 2 Aleistar and 1 Invocation for the engine to be effective.
- Extra Deck does not need to be fully committed to Invoked fusions for Engine to be effective
- You can't just destroy the fusion targets either, since Invocation will always be used for an Invoked monster and that means the monsters will need to be bounced or banished to prevent use as a material.

And just so we're clear, you're a hypocrite if you think it's wrong to cripple a support archetype that's outright carrying decks that otherwise won't see any success when the success is solely based on the splashed support rather than the merits of the rest of the deck.

bc i believe there is much worse to come and i believe that the complete destruction of an archetype is never the answer, Invoked is strong but at least in it's current state you can deal with it, unlike some of the other archetypes that might or might not come to DL in the future and if you have problems with strong engines then i really hope you're not planning on sticking around for XYZ bc this will prob be the worst experience for you all depending on what we end up getting but since one Mekk-Knight has been leaked already feel free to read up on them and ask yourself if Invoked is really that bad or read up on the other Orcust cards.

Regarding your criterias:
#1: they're not, you need Aleister at least as a x2 and 1x Invocation + the fusion monster and monster that hit the attribute requirements, so oyu need much more than just 2 cards.
#2: if you really believe this then ok but that instantly means rip so many other cards.
#3: most ppl run 3 and 2 but ok i let that one stand.
#4: true but that is mainly bc we don't even have the other 2 main Invokeds and the only Invoked monster that are worth being run are Cocytus and Purga, Caliga is a nice to have but far from necessary and Magellanica is just a beat stick that Purg does better in most cases.
#5: Not always + you can use stuff like Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell or Void Trap Hole or Forbidden Lance on Invoker to prevent that it can be targeted w/ Invocation, this is what i meant, there are soo many techs against E-Saber/Invoked or Invoked in general that i really don't know how ppl still struggle against them.

Why does that make me a hypocrite? That makes no sense.

1. The engine is 2 cards, the rest of the deck generally doesn't matter; it just has to be the right combination of attributes.
2. Neos Fusion, Kiteroid, Treacherous Trap Hole, and plenty of other cards were hit for the exact same reason. Neos Fusion is only a little less specific compared to Invoked.The other big difference is that one of the materials searches the fusion spell while Neos Fusion just uses materials from the deck.
3. No need to address this further, obviously
4. And the fusions themselves aren't the inherent problem. It's the engine itself. Konami's refusal to hit the actual problem is another issue entirely.
5. Cursed Seal is exceptionally inefficient as a counter trap and as a tech option only works against Invoked engine. What about the rest of the deck? Forbidden Lance might stop Aleistar from being used as material but that requires you have it on hand and otherwise isn't the best tech option either. Dedicate too much of your deck specifically to counter Invoked and you're gonna get wrecked by every other deck.

It makes you a hypocrite because you've already admitted that Invoked has no business being in Duel Links.

You say your belief is that an archetype shouldn't ever be killed. So I guess that means Cyber Angels, Amazoness and Six Samurai should lose their limits despite how oppressive they were in their relevant metas.

[Obsidian Dragoon]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ||eXz|| .xAʟYssᴀ // 構文:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Busty Demoness:

Still not as slow as other skills that are meta, such as Cyber Style or Grit.

Cyber Style is slow? Do we play the same game? 1 Cyclone and oyu're good to go, how the f*ck is that slow? and Grit is a passive skill, how is that slow? This is like saying LP Alpha is slow, that comment makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Cyber Style can be triggered on 1000 LP loss, but it's far from efficient until you're below 2000 and requires decision making since it's once per duel.

Grit forces a player to slow down, or at least chip an opponent before going all in.

I would consider them slow for that reason. Particularly since Cyber Style can potentially never see play in a duel depending on the cards drawn.

[[絶望] 𝔖𝔲𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞𝔩_ℑ𝔡𝔬𝔩]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Busty Demoness:

1. The engine is 2 cards, the rest of the deck generally doesn't matter; it just has to be the right combination of attributes.
2. Neos Fusion, Kiteroid, Treacherous Trap Hole, and plenty of other cards were hit for the exact same reason. Neos Fusion is only a little less specific compared to Invoked.The other big difference is that one of the materials searches the fusion spell while Neos Fusion just uses materials from the deck.
3. No need to address this further, obviously
4. And the fusions themselves aren't the inherent problem. It's the engine itself. Konami's refusal to hit the actual problem is another issue entirely.
5. Cursed Seal is exceptionally inefficient as a counter trap and as a tech option only works against Invoked engine. What about the rest of the deck? Forbidden Lance might stop Aleistar from being used as material but that requires you have it on hand and otherwise isn't the best tech option either. Dedicate too much of your deck specifically to counter Invoked and you're gonna get wrecked by every other deck.

It makes you a hypocrite because you've already admitted that Invoked has no business being in Duel Links.

You say your belief is that an archetype shouldn't ever be killed. So I guess that means Cyber Angels, Amazoness and Six Samurai should lose their limits despite how oppressive they were in their relevant metas.

1: i disagree but ok
2: This is by far the most unfair comparison ever, TTH, Kiteroid, E-Con were not just hit bc they got teched into everything but bc they were being run alongside each other, 3x Kiteroid + 2 TTH, that was the problem, or 3 Kite + 1 TTH + 1 E-Con, that was the problem and nothing else, the only fair comparison would be Neos Fusion so yea make Invocation a limit 2 but leave Aleister alone or do you see Keeper or Dragonmagic on that list? Bc i don't and that card is teched into absolutely every fusion deck as well.
4: I agree with that point overall, i was amongst the first ppl to aks for a Cyclone hit bc it is too easy to tech it into everything and trigger the LP requirements on skills that way, however a hit on Cyclone or better more cards on limit 3 wouldn't kill archetypes altogether, your "solution" would.
5: Cursed Seal also stops DM, just sayin, and Lance is prob one of the best tech options in the game right now bc it can be used on both your opp and yourself, so once again as means to counter DM, as means to counter CyDra, as means to counter TTH or E-Con etc. and Void Trap Hole is a really useful tech option as well that i run in almost all of my decks as of now, i'm not saying you need to dedicate specific counters for Invoked but those options aren't, they counter a multitude of decks in the current meta, that's why i brought them up in the first place, they're not super specific like De-Fusion would be f.e.

I disagree but i can see where you're coming from, let me clear this up, if i were in charge of deploying updates and deciding what cards make it into the game i would have been against the addition of Invoked but since i'm not i can still voice my opinion that it was a stupid call from Konami to add them but to still preserve them as a playable archetype, since they're now part of the game.

CAs yes 100%, i asked for unbans of their cards multiple times in the past as you can fact check, they're too slow to be a problem in the slightest and need Vrash and Natasha to come back as meta, i'm 100% ok w/ Amazoness minus Swordswoman and Six Sam have not been killed, they're just as playable as before they just got powercrept into oblivion thanks to Blackwings.
However this is prob not what you asked right? You wanted to know if i would have hit the cards back when they were top tier right?
Well CAs yes, bc unlike Invoked they were tier 0, you either played CAs to compete or you lost per default, would i have hit them as harshly as Konami did? Definitely not, hit on Petit was 100% uncalled for and i said that when they announced that hit, CA would have been playable still but would have lost it's tier 0 status.
Vamps, nope, never got the hit on them tbh, thought it was one of the stupidest decissions Konami ever made.
Amazoness nope and yes at the same time, Swordswoman 100% but only bc of burn strats, Princess kinda bc she was too easy to obtain at x3, Onslaught kinda, it shouldn't have been a R rarity card but since it was it was too accessible.
Six Sams, as said above their hits did close to nothing only prevented them from running other semi limits alongside in their deck, the only reason why they're not being played is bc of powercreep.