Bugged cards: Celestia, Lightsworn Angel + Lightsworn Sabre

[Gronmor]

Hi there! I wanted to report what I think is a bug involving the two cards above. Now, before anyone says that Lightsworn decks are bad and not viable, etc., I've already read all that! I don't care: It's strong enough for me to handle most games, and most importantly I have fun with it! Anyway, now on to the bug at hand:

For those who don't know those cards, basically here what they do: Celestia, Lightsworn Angel, when I summon her, I get to send 4 cards from my deck to my graveyard and, in return, destroy 2 cards on my opponent's field (quite a life-saver more than once!). As for Lightsworn Sabre, it's just an Equip Spell that give a 700 attack boost to any Lightsworn monster BUT it also have the extra quirk that, if it were to be sent from my deck to my graveyard, I'm allowed to put it on one of my Lightsworn monster instead.

Now, normally, that means that if I were to use Celestia's ability and that the Sabre would get send into my graveyard because of it, I'd get to cast it, right? But instead, I get this: https://imgur.com/a/TZdf0Lz . And I have no idea why. I'm never asked if I want to activate my Sabre effect, as I would from any other Lightsworn creatures with similar ability, and the game do recognize that, technically, it should be doable. But I never can. And it's not like the ability doesn't work on Wulf, Lightsworn Beast (another card I can summon if sent directly from my deck to my graveyard). They are differences between those, sure; Wulf is a monster, and he's automatically summoned this way as long as there's room, while for the Sabre it's optional. Still, I don't see why I don't get to cast my Sabre in those circumstances. If anyone know how the rules differ for that card, feel free to share. Otherwise it's clearly a bug, I think...

[DUBINA]

all other lightsworn monsters are different from celestia.
celestia effect is to destroy 2 cards but the cost is to send 4 cards from the top of the deck, while other lightsworn monster's effect is to send cards from the top of the deck only. so we have here a cost that sends cards and the effect that sends cards. now sabre is an optional effect of "when" sent (the same moment it is sent) equips itself to LS monster. when it is sent by the cost it must wait for the effect to resolve thus misses the timing activation cause it didnt have the chance to activate "when" it was sent to graveyard. Wulf is different, its effect is mandatory and will activate even if there is no room on the field to summon itself, you have no control over it and it activates on its own, thats why it cannot miss the timing.

so no, its not a bug.

[Gronmor]

Originally posted by DUBINA:

all other lightsworn monsters are different from celestia.
celestia effect is to destroy 2 cards but the cost is to send 4 cards from the top of the deck, while other lightsworn monster's effect is to send cards from the top of the deck only. so we have here a cost that sends cards and the effect that sends cards. now sabre is an optional effect of "when" sent (the same moment it is sent) equips itself to LS monster. when it is sent by the cost it must wait for the effect to resolve thus misses the timing activation cause it didnt have the chance to activate "when" it was sent to graveyard. Wulf is different, its effect is mandatory and will activate even if there is no room on the field to summon itself, you have no control over it and it activates on its own, thats why it cannot miss the timing.

so no, its not a bug.

But shouldn't the effects chain at least, then? Since the text says "send the top 4 cards of your Deck to the Graveyard, THEN target up to 2 cards your opponent controls; destroy those targets". The word "then" suggest that it happens after you sent 4 cards to the Graveyard, but the effect of Lightsworn Sabre happens when it's sent to the Graveyard. So technically shouldn't it happen in-between the milling and Celestia's second part of her effect?

[DUBINA]

Originally posted by Gronmor:

Originally posted by DUBINA:

all other lightsworn monsters are different from celestia.
celestia effect is to destroy 2 cards but the cost is to send 4 cards from the top of the deck, while other lightsworn monster's effect is to send cards from the top of the deck only. so we have here a cost that sends cards and the effect that sends cards. now sabre is an optional effect of "when" sent (the same moment it is sent) equips itself to LS monster. when it is sent by the cost it must wait for the effect to resolve thus misses the timing activation cause it didnt have the chance to activate "when" it was sent to graveyard. Wulf is different, its effect is mandatory and will activate even if there is no room on the field to summon itself, you have no control over it and it activates on its own, thats why it cannot miss the timing.

so no, its not a bug.

But shouldn't the effects chain at least, then? Since the text says "send the top 4 cards of your Deck to the Graveyard, THEN target up to 2 cards your opponent controls; destroy those targets". The word "then" suggest that it happens after you sent 4 cards to the Graveyard, but the effect of Lightsworn Sabre happens when it's sent to the Graveyard. So technically shouldn't it happen in-between the milling and Celestia's second part of her effect?

again i say, milling the cards is a cost, destroying cards is effect. you cannot activate cards in response to paying a cost to activate an effect.

https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Missing_the_timing
https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Lightsworn_Sabre

[Gronmor]

Well, I guess I can get the whole "Missing the Timing" part. But I still maintain something is fishy here. The Lightsworn Sabre specifically states "When this card is sent from your Deck to the Graveyard", that's it. It doesn't say "When this card is sent from your Deck to the Graveyard unless it is to a cost to activate an effect". Such a ruling should have been on the card...

[DUBINA]

read about timing in the link there, it should open up your mind to how game is working.

[Sparse Dunes]

It has to say if for it to not miss timing.

Because when is a specific instance. In sabers case the milling of it is the last thing to occur. If anything happens in between it misses it's timing.

If is an unspecified point in time.
So a card with an if clause doesn't have timing it just needs to meet a requirement to occur.