"20 Cards Is Ideal"

[Rezilia]

I feel bad for anyone who actually falls for that. Good luck getting in any viable combo or even surviving when someone insta-drains your 20 card deck. A well-built 30 card deck is the ideal, never a 20 card deck (unless you have a graveyard restoring deck or can banish/restore, but not everyone does).

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Do you play on phone?

[[絶望] 𝔖𝔲𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞𝔩_ℑ𝔡𝔬𝔩]

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Originally posted by ||eXz|| _sNTx // スカー藩主:

That is a mediocre face palm

[Rezilia]

Yes, I play on phone. Unfortunately there's no forum for the phone versions D:

But seriously, when ever would someone think using 20 cards is best when you can legit make a 30 card deck with so many combos that, when designed well, would make ANY hand useful? Sure it takes time to make such a deck but that's half of the point of the game.

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Originally posted by Rezilia:

Yes, I play on phone. Unfortunately there's no forum for the phone versions D:

But seriously, when ever would someone think using 20 cards is best when you can legit make a 30 card deck with so many combos that, when designed well, would make ANY hand useful? Sure it takes time to make such a deck but that's half of the point of the game.

The problem is consistency not combos, that is why the only usable decks at 30 cards is Grass which even then aren't much of use

[Orochi Samurai]

Originally posted by Rezilia:

Yes, I play on phone. Unfortunately there's no forum for the phone versions D:

But seriously, when ever would someone think using 20 cards is best when you can legit make a 30 card deck with so many combos that, when designed well, would make ANY hand useful? Sure it takes time to make such a deck but that's half of the point of the game.

You're trolling right? Please... tell me you are trolling, I honestly don't think I could handle this level of genuine arrogance and stupidity....

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

I always find it funny how I am the only one who treats these with... I guess care for a lack of word

[Rezilia]

Consistency isn't a good thing when you're relying on a single trick. I understand that there are some meta decks that are right out of the box that don't even have upwards to 30 cards, but you can't tell me that a deck designed around high utility for balance with over 10 different combos depending on the hand is worse than a deck designed around maybe 3 combos that requires a 20 card deck.

It's the difference between someone who just copies a premade deck (out of the box or someone else's), and someone who actually takes the time to build their own custom deck. The custom decks will always use the highest number possible because of maximizing the number of combos. Consistency is easily countered; the more combos you have, the more versatility and the greater the chance of being able to use a combo for a particular situation.

Otherwise just drain someone's deck and banish their cards and you win because they were dumb enough to have 20 cards and let you get rid of 1 or 2 of their combos within 5 turns.

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Originally posted by Rezilia:

Consistency isn't a good thing when you're relying on a single trick. I understand that there are some meta decks that are right out of the box that don't even have upwards to 30 cards, but you can't tell me that a deck designed around high utility for balance with over 10 different combos depending on the hand is worse than a deck designed around maybe 3 combos that requires a 20 card deck.

It's the difference between someone who just copies a premade deck (out of the box or someone else's), and someone who actually takes the time to build their own custom deck. The custom decks will always use the highest number possible because of maximizing the number of combos. Consistency is easily countered; the more combos you have, the more versatility and the greater the chance of being able to use a combo for a particular situation.

Otherwise just drain someone's deck and banish their cards and you win because they were dumb enough to have 20 cards and let you get rid of 1 or 2 of their combos within 5 turns.

It's a fast format though, why take the slowest route? The best decks have always been in 20 card formats or slightly above, because you really only need that many in a quick format. It only takes 1 combo to change the duel entirely or 1 card to change the duel entirely, but if you can't seem to get those combos or get that 1 card then why use the 30 card format

[Rezilia]

The point I'm making is that a properly designed deck will be able to use such combos regardless of deck count, and with a properly designed custom deck someone can get more possible combos with a higher number of cards. What matters is deck balance, not deck count. With that in mind, why risk deck outs or combo destruction due to deck drain when you could have enough cards that such a thing will never be a problem?

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Originally posted by Rezilia:

The point I'm making is that a properly designed deck will be able to use such combos regardless of deck count, and with a properly designed custom deck someone can get more possible combos with a higher number of cards. What matters is deck balance, not deck count. With that in mind, why risk deck outs or combo destruction due to deck drain when you could have enough cards that such a thing will never be a problem?

You don't even need to worry about deck outs period. Not many people use mill decks and generally people have enough removal cards to stop stall decks. Like I said it only takes 1 move to change the game, and if you can get that move quicker then there is no point in the slow route because you just won the fastest way. Also this format isn't about multiple combos it's about gimmicks like BW gimmick of multiple synchros by turn 1 or Invoked getting out a Invoked Fusion or Triamids trying to deny you at all times

[Rezilia]

Originally posted by Christmas Future: Yubel:

Also this format isn't about multiple combos it's about gimmicks like BW gimmick of multiple synchros by turn 1 or Invoked getting out a Invoked Fusion or Triamids trying to deny you at all times

And once one of those has been done, then what? Is it game over? No recourse because your one trick pony deck didn't work out before their one trick pony deck? This is why versatility matters more than consistency - you can make a deck designed around getting out that one sweet combo but if your opponent gets theirs out first you're done for because all you had was that one combo.

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Originally posted by Rezilia:

Originally posted by Christmas Future: Yubel:

Also this format isn't about multiple combos it's about gimmicks like BW gimmick of multiple synchros by turn 1 or Invoked getting out a Invoked Fusion or Triamids trying to deny you at all times

And once one of those has been done, then what? Is it game over? No recourse because your one trick pony deck didn't work out before their one trick pony deck? This is why versatility matters more than consistency - you can make a deck designed around getting out that one sweet combo but if your opponent gets theirs out first you're done for because all you had was that one combo.

Actually it does work out as a win. Let me use an example, say I summoned Triamid Cruiser then Master and set 2 cards while gaining 500 LP then discarding a Dancer, your move. You use a Shiranui deck, so you get your 2 cards to synchro that 2100 ATK synchro, however on that same move I activate my Master's effect, trade in Cruiser for Kingolem then Cruiser will activate it's effect before Shiranui can so now I can use a face down, well since every Triamid deck has Pulse let's say Pulse is the face down, I activate it send in 2 cards to destroy your synchro and I get a monster because of Cruiser's effect and still have 1 face down. It's game set match unless you have a disruption card which most Shiranui decks don't unless it's a specific tie in to the deck which against Triamid is just as good as surrendering.

If people really cared about versatility then you would be seeing 30 card decks used by everybody not 20 card decks, instead it is tied to Grass and only Grass

The fast format makes 30 card decks much more difficult since you have to take into consideration who goes first and what cards you drew, plus very few people run mill decks so decking out from 20 card deck format is basically unrealistic unless you self milled for a benefit which very few decks do

[Orochi Samurai]

Originally posted by Rezilia:

Originally posted by Christmas Future: Yubel:

Also this format isn't about multiple combos it's about gimmicks like BW gimmick of multiple synchros by turn 1 or Invoked getting out a Invoked Fusion or Triamids trying to deny you at all times

And once one of those has been done, then what? Is it game over? No recourse because your one trick pony deck didn't work out before their one trick pony deck? This is why versatility matters more than consistency - you can make a deck designed around getting out that one sweet combo but if your opponent gets theirs out first you're done for because all you had was that one combo.

This is 100% false...

[Ashen]

It's just math. You have a higher chance to draw what you need the less cards you use. With a 30-card deck, you will almost never draw more than half your deck. You could have the best cards/combos in the world, they're useless if you don't draw them. Of course, there are exceptions like That Grass Looks Greener decks (which are not viable in general) or other specific archetypes that requires you to run more cards like Triamids/Crystrons for example.