Was Vergil really evil

[Yoticos]

What do you think?

[ikegami178]

Wow, this topic has taken some wild turns

My opinion on the matter is that vergil is simply an "anti-villiain". On previous games he was just an ass that literally didnt care how many people were caught in his quest for power. On this game, we are shown two sides of the character. The "bad" one is willing to activelly kill a whole city worth of people for the sake of power, but at the same time his "good" side was horrified by the lines crossed

For me, that just makes Vergil a bad person, but one who is not a complete monster. Urizen represents that he is willing to inflict much misery, but V also shows he have lines he wont cross. The kind of guy who wont(directly) kill anyone, but also wont particulary care about any misery he indirectly spreads. The kind of guy who thinks the natural order of things is everyone looking after him/herself(and that line of tought is also the point behind his quest for power: Nobody will come to help him just as he wont help anyone, so he collects power so he wont ever need anybody)

There are good things to say about him compared to average villiains. He dont think hes entitled to anything. He treats others in the same manner he expects to be treated. He thinks demons are superior to humans but on a personal level he dont seem to place himself higher than others

Still dont make him a nice person. But then, the game acknowledges this. He gets his karmic retribution on the way he never have a happy ending, even on this game, his "happy" ending is just not being manhandled by Mundus again, but he is still stuck on a world where everyone but one person will kill him on sight, Dante and Vergil try to make light of the situation, but they ARE stuck on a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ predictment

[Supada]

Originally posted by ikegami178:

Dante and Vergil try to make light of the situation, but they ARE stuck on a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ predictment

but pal what w/ yamato they can leave underworld imo.... idk now lol

[PetroSeraph]

Originally posted by Supada:

Originally posted by ikegami178:

Dante and Vergil try to make light of the situation, but they ARE stuck on a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ predictment

but pal what w/ yamato they can leave underworld imo.... idk now lol

I agree, they can, rather they just want to spend some time together. For Vergil it sounds like a death sentence

[Supada]

Originally posted by PetroSeraph:

Originally posted by Supada:

but pal what w/ yamato they can leave underworld imo.... idk now lol

I agree, they can, rather they just want to spend some time together. For Vergil it sounds like a death sentence

lmfao ty

[ice]

no

vergil was as likely to save the world from mundus as dante because sparda prepared them both for it

circumstances are the only reason it was dante and not vergil

[⛧Jᴀᴄᴏʙ⛧]

"That day, if our positions were switched... Would our fates be different?"

[N00B]

DMC 5 already makes Vergil responsible for the deaths of hundreds thousands of people.
You're literally walking through the game seeing roots in the shape of the people who's blood they drained.

MF commited an entire genocide so he could get power and an apple, and that's only in DmC 5.

[PetroSeraph]

Not really, Virgil didn't kill people with his own hands... his demon half did btw Alright, move on

[MaiiyourCat]

Originally posted by PetroSeraph:

Not really, Virgil didn't kill people with his own hands... his demon half did btw :lgdPalm: Alright, move on

Leave the Dante fanboys alone, no matter what you say, they will always see Vergil as a threat to themselves.

[N00B]

Originally posted by PetroSeraph:

Not really, Virgil didn't kill people with his own hands... his demon half did btw :lgdPalm: Alright, move on

Mf.
We literally spend the entire game learning that its the demon half and human half that make Vergil. 50% guilty for genocide is still guilty for genocide.

[PetroSeraph]

Originally posted by MaiiyourCat:

Originally posted by PetroSeraph:

Not really, Virgil didn't kill people with his own hands... his demon half did btw Alright, move on

Leave the Dante fanboys alone, no matter what you say, they will always see Vergil as a threat to themselves.

I did. I already noticed because of the "mf" text that it's not worth commenting. Dictionary, little childrens. I don't blame Dante's fans because I like him too, but a lot of them seem to be

[Mindéi]

No, he isn't pure evil. I don't know what they expect from Virgil, he just accepted his humanity and I bet he will struggle with it

[N00B]

Originally posted by WhiteAngel7:

It depends on how you perceive Vergil. Devil May Cry series isn’t black-and-white and obviously everyone has a different perspective. I will elaborate a bit.
I see it this way; It can be recognized that Vergil's alignment is/was Lawful Evil, in short, he generally does what he wants to achieve his goals, whether it's good or bad, based on his own code or believes. I also think that Vergil's reason wasn't just to seek power to defeat Dante, because it's quite shallow for such a character. I think that Vergil (just like Dante) probably resents their father that there was no one to protect them when the demons attacked their family when they were little. Their mother hid Dante and ran to look for him and she got killed. In these times Vergil had to save himself alone and couldn’t warn his family on time, so after that I think Vergil was convinced that no one would help him anyway, the only one who can protect him is he himself, hence his desire for power, just like he said "…without strength, you cannot protect anything.” Seeing how traumatized Vergil was (with Dante as well), he wanted to build "a shell" around himself.

Vergil abandoned his human heritage and only accepted his demonic, where Dante was the opposite. I think that rejection of humanity could make an influence on Vergil too, because of the fact that demons have an evil nature themselves (with exceptions like Sparda). Before the events in DMC3, I believe that Vergil had moments of some normality with Nero’s mother. Maybe there would be a chance in this woman to get Vergil to sort himself out, but his searching for more power just consumed him totally. I can't tell.

In DMC5, his human half V realized how many bad things he did as Vergil and what atrocities his demon half is doing now, so it started to make me wonder that maybe Vergil didn't have much control over himself earlier, because as I mentioned, he rejected his human side, so this "V” couldn't talk some sense into him. On the other hand, maybe he knew what he was doing, but then why only V, who could look at everything clearly, understood it later.

There are also a few questions. Did Vergil want to save himself, so he separated his human and demon halves and thought that his demon half would be alone strong enough to defeat Dante? Did he know what Urizen would do to gain more power? Everyone can only speculate.
However, let's make one thing clear: Vergil had no intention of killing people in the first place. It wasn't his goal. He was indifferent to their existence, although V saved the mother and child himself and it was selfless (Visions of V~ manga).
Finally, Vergil accepted his human heritage and along with Dante no longer intended to kill each other. Instead of that they make a sparring in Hell while talking like siblings again.

To sum up, is he evil or isn’t he? I would say maybe lost. Vergil is the most misunderstood character in the entire series, but these are my conclusions, everyone can have a different opinion and think the opposite. For me Vergil isn’t a vilian, but he is an anti-hero. Although it doesn't mean that Nero and Dante are completely good and pure characters. They may have good hearts, but they also have their own issues.

See, I really like this analysis. However, evil isn't necessarily just wanting bad things to happen. Even in older representations of the concept in media, their actions are usually fueled by common, human emotions that everyone can relate to, with their subsequent actions being the deciding factor. Evil characters often have goals that in their eyes are moral or just. Its that twisted belief system that leads them to do evil things. Vergil is no exception.

As you pointed out, Vergil inevitably did have a period in his life where he was more "safe" and "normal", interacting with Nero's mother prior to the events of DMC3. This kinda breaks the idea of him simply being indiffirent. Nero's very existence is proof that he was in fact at a point in his life where he overcame his childhood trauma, at least to the point where he could feel safe enough to share his affection with another. Sex may be seen as only for pleasure but there's more to it than just that, especially with someone as clearly prudish as Vergil. Its a situation where both parties are completely open to eachother, both for good and bad. An interaction which only works if they feel "safe" with eachother. Utmost and voluntary vulnerability, understanding and empathy is required and displayed for it to work. Vergil knew what laid on the other side of his lineage. He saw what life could bring him if he accepted his human half and chose to focus not on gaining power to protect people but on gaining power solely to protect himself. (That, or he sexually assaulted Nero's mother which would certainly add to the "evil" pile.)

Him abandoning her and continuing with his actions in DMC3 sets a president that Vergil did in fact choose this life. He chose to follow a path in which people he once could feel safe around and who's affection could grant him the power of human heart, to instead knowingly commit actions that will result in countless deaths, seeking the power of demonic motivation.

Claiming that he, at least prior to the end of DMC5 wasn't evil, completely alleviates him from the responsibility for his direct actions.

He has started to redeem himself, but he was very much still evil. As evil as every insecure and scared individual, lashing out at the world before it can lash out at them.

[aka]

Originally posted by NOOB:

Originally posted by WhiteAngel7:

It depends on how you perceive Vergil. Devil May Cry series isn’t black-and-white and obviously everyone has a different perspective. I will elaborate a bit.
I see it this way; It can be recognized that Vergil's alignment is/was Lawful Evil, in short, he generally does what he wants to achieve his goals, whether it's good or bad, based on his own code or believes. I also think that Vergil's reason wasn't just to seek power to defeat Dante, because it's quite shallow for such a character. I think that Vergil (just like Dante) probably resents their father that there was no one to protect them when the demons attacked their family when they were little. Their mother hid Dante and ran to look for him and she got killed. In these times Vergil had to save himself alone and couldn’t warn his family on time, so after that I think Vergil was convinced that no one would help him anyway, the only one who can protect him is he himself, hence his desire for power, just like he said "…without strength, you cannot protect anything.” Seeing how traumatized Vergil was (with Dante as well), he wanted to build "a shell" around himself.

Vergil abandoned his human heritage and only accepted his demonic, where Dante was the opposite. I think that rejection of humanity could make an influence on Vergil too, because of the fact that demons have an evil nature themselves (with exceptions like Sparda). Before the events in DMC3, I believe that Vergil had moments of some normality with Nero’s mother. Maybe there would be a chance in this woman to get Vergil to sort himself out, but his searching for more power just consumed him totally. I can't tell.

In DMC5, his human half V realized how many bad things he did as Vergil and what atrocities his demon half is doing now, so it started to make me wonder that maybe Vergil didn't have much control over himself earlier, because as I mentioned, he rejected his human side, so this "V” couldn't talk some sense into him. On the other hand, maybe he knew what he was doing, but then why only V, who could look at everything clearly, understood it later.

There are also a few questions. Did Vergil want to save himself, so he separated his human and demon halves and thought that his demon half would be alone strong enough to defeat Dante? Did he know what Urizen would do to gain more power? Everyone can only speculate.
However, let's make one thing clear: Vergil had no intention of killing people in the first place. It wasn't his goal. He was indifferent to their existence, although V saved the mother and child himself and it was selfless (Visions of V~ manga).
Finally, Vergil accepted his human heritage and along with Dante no longer intended to kill each other. Instead of that they make a sparring in Hell while talking like siblings again.

To sum up, is he evil or isn’t he? I would say maybe lost. Vergil is the most misunderstood character in the entire series, but these are my conclusions, everyone can have a different opinion and think the opposite. For me Vergil isn’t a vilian, but he is an anti-hero. Although it doesn't mean that Nero and Dante are completely good and pure characters. They may have good hearts, but they also have their own issues.

As you pointed out, Vergil inevitably did have a period in his life where he was more "safe" and "normal", interacting with Nero's mother prior to the events of DMC3. This kinda breaks the idea of him simply being indiffirent. Nero's very existence is proof that he was in fact at a point in his life where he overcame his childhood trauma, at least to the point where he could feel safe enough to share his affection with another. Sex may be seen as only for pleasure but there's more to it than just that, especially with someone as clearly prudish as Vergil. Its a situation where both parties are completely open to eachother, both for good and bad. An interaction which only works if they feel "safe" with eachother. Utmost and voluntary vulnerability, understanding and empathy is required and displayed for it to work. Vergil knew what laid on the other side of his lineage. He saw what life could bring him if he accepted his human half and chose to focus not on gaining power to protect people but on gaining power solely to protect himself. (That, or he sexually assaulted Nero's mother which would certainly add to the "evil" pile.)

Daaaamnn, @WhiteAngel7, how about now, cutie? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
What's the line?
-Sex?
Nero: Male.
Vergil: Yes.
Dante: What is this?
I had to, no regrets. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[N00B]

Originally posted by aka:

Originally posted by NOOB:

As you pointed out, Vergil inevitably did have a period in his life where he was more "safe" and "normal", interacting with Nero's mother prior to the events of DMC3. This kinda breaks the idea of him simply being indiffirent. Nero's very existence is proof that he was in fact at a point in his life where he overcame his childhood trauma, at least to the point where he could feel safe enough to share his affection with another. Sex may be seen as only for pleasure but there's more to it than just that, especially with someone as clearly prudish as Vergil. Its a situation where both parties are completely open to eachother, both for good and bad. An interaction which only works if they feel "safe" with eachother. Utmost and voluntary vulnerability, understanding and empathy is required and displayed for it to work. Vergil knew what laid on the other side of his lineage. He saw what life could bring him if he accepted his human half and chose to focus not on gaining power to protect people but on gaining power solely to protect himself. (That, or he sexually assaulted Nero's mother which would certainly add to the "evil" pile.)

Daaaamnn, @WhiteAngel7, how about now, cutie? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
What's the line?
-Sex?
Nero: Male.
Vergil: Yes.
Dante: What is this?
I had to, no regrets. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

-_-