The game is ruined

[AILAD]

So I was playing DMC V for a couple of hours and really enjoying it. Nero is a cool and fun character, I look forward to learning his whole moveset.

But then, the game wants me to play as a freakin summoner... when I have to mash buttons to control a bird and an annoying tiger that doesn't do anything most of the time.

V ruined the game.

[bullerbuller7]

Origineel geplaatst door JackieTheDemon:

Origineel geplaatst door Forgot7en:

Long post

I aint readin' that, good luck though, DMC5 best.

There are so many good reasons to think DMC5 is the best in the series.
But any of the arguements you decided to use are just bad.

[AILAD]

Origineel geplaatst door Forgot7en:

Origineel geplaatst door JackieTheDemon:

3 was so confusing and boring (story-wise) that I couldn't finish it.

lol you actually think DMC3's story is confusing? I mean, it is the best written story in the entire franchise, but confusing? Really? Are you one of those people who need to have endless exposition to fully understand what's going on?

I do enjoy all the dialogue for V that I get, it helped me figure out who the character really was the first time playing.

I guess you really are. 90% of V's dialog is pure exposition, all he does is explain to the other characters, up until the point he finally reconnects with Urizen.

DMC3's story is artful, sentimental, and even though it retconned Dante's backstory by making Vergil still alive and human as a teenager, it was ultimately for the sake of good storytelling. If you're so confused by the story, let me explain it to you.


Vergil is 19 years old. He's at a library, doing some kind of research when Arkham shows up and starts talking about Sparda. It's easy to infer that he wants to look into the origins of Sparda, and since we know from later in the story that Vergil's goal is precisely to find Sparda's power, forms a partnership with him. Together, they uncover the demonic tower Temen-ni-gru underground and raise it, as it is the primary hell gate that Sparda sealed.

However, in order to break the seal, Vergil needs the amulet Sparda used, which is split into two halves; Vergil has one, Dante has the other. While Vergil is busy reactivating the demon tower, Arkham goes to Dante, presenting him with an "invitation" on Vergil's behalf. Demons begin invading the city, and the tower emerges. Dante recognizes his brother at the top and it's clear that it's Dante's responsibility to stop him, though at this early in the story, he sees it mainly as a source of personal entertainment.

Along the way, Dante has multiple encounters with a mysterious girl with various guns on a motorcycle, Mary, whom Dante nicknames 'Lady' because she claims to have no name. We find out through dialog with Arkham that they are father and daughter, and she's there to kill him.

Once Dante finally reaches Vergil for the first time, and despite sharing some kind of sense of humor in their dialog, they fight and Dante loses. Vergil is irritated by his callousness and unwillingness to pursue Sparda's power, their father, their legacy. Vergil takes Dante's half of the amulet by force, slicing his hand as he falls over backward. Vergil walks away and as Dante's just about to get up again, he takes his sword and impales him to the ground as the final strike. Before he's able to leave however, Dante suddenly gets back up, fuelled with demonic power, and somewhat disoriented. Arkham emerges and urges Vergil to leave, as they have what they needed. Dante's Devil Trigger is awakened (hence the subtitle Dante's Awakening) and he passes out from the intensity of that moment.

Here, due to Vergil saying "I see a devil inside you has awakened as well." we can infer that he also has a devil form, and that it had already awakened in him at some point in the past, by his sword either coming into contact with his blood, or by him actually being impaled by it. The manga illustrates this moment when Vergil was at a graveyard as a child when demons attacked and he was left for dead, killed with his own katana, but that's not really important, nor necessary to understand how and why he has demonic powers and is therefore stronger than Dante in their first encounter in the story.

As Vergil and Arkham make their way deeper into the tower, to the room where the seal is, Vergil accuses Arkham of being too weak for not killing his own daughter, as he believes she's only interfering, and attempts to kill him, leaving him for dead.

Since Arkham is more resilient than Vergil could've known, he moves to a different location to later be found by his daughter and Dante. She says she was there to kill him because he'd sacrificed her mother to become a demon. Unable to go any further, she stays behind while Dante moves on ahead.

This is when Arkham "wakes up" and we get to find out that he wasn't killed by Vergil, and that he's a deceitful manipulator. With a completely different tone of voice, he convinces Mary that HE was "being manipulated by a devil named Vergil" before pretending to die in her arms. She then goes after him right behind Dante and arrives just as they were in the middle of a second fight. Mary attempts to kill Vergil, and accuses him that he forced her father into all this, to which he responds with "Is that what you think? Foolish girl." As the twins continue to fight, Lady is left uncertain of what's happening, questioning the situation, when Jester appears.

Jester had been a kind of guide for Dante up til this point, but seeing as he hadn't been in any way a threat, just little more than an irritating imp, Dante thought nothing of him. However, due to several closeup shots of Arkham and Mary's eyes, it's pretty clear that Jester is connected to them somehow, as they all have heterochromia; a blue eye and a red eye.

This is point when Jester reveals that he and Arkham were the same creature, and they had been manipulating the twins and Mary to gather them precisely there, the hell gate seal. Prior to the twins' second fight, Vergil had already attempted to open the seal. He used the completed amulet and his own blood, as required. How he knows this is easy to understand, getting here was an effort made with Arkham, whose goal was to come here and go into the demon world himself.

All three characters are too weak to stop Jester Arkham, who reveals that Mary's blood was also necessary to open the seal, as she is the descendant of the human priestess Sparda had sacrificed to make the seal in the first place. Her blood is added to the seal, and soon after, the tower is activated a second time and begins to rise even higher than before. Arkham easily overpowers the three and kicks them off the rising platform, and once the tower reaches its peak height, the portal to hell is finally opened in the sky.

Vergil was knocked out and fell through cracks in the floor.

Dante and Mary have one more bit of dialog here, when she shows her maturity by saying "I'm responsible for all this mess." This is when Dante begins to realize that Vergil, his family, and his heritage, are all big responsibilities of his that he'd been rejecting and ignoring for a long time.

By the time Dante finally arrives in the demon world, Arkham's already taken possession of Sparda's sword, the Force Edge, in which he'd locked away all of his demon power. When they finally meet again, Arkham's taken Sparda's power and his image. As they fight, Dante begins to realize it's too much for him to handle on his own, when Vergil reappears. For the moment, they fight alongside each other to defeat Arkham, and once that's done, they go right back to being on opposite sides, because Vergil still wants Sparda's power for himself, and Dante has to stop him.

In the end, Vergil loses and drops Sparda's sword but is still able to retrieve his own half of the amulet. Showing possessiveness for it, he begins backing away toward the edge of the cliff. Vergil expresses reverence for his father, for the demon world, for it had been their father's home, and decides he wants to stay. As he falls backward, he slices through Dante's hand again as he tries to grab ahold of him.

Despite everything, Dante still feels an emotional attachment with his brother. It's clear that he never wanted any of this to happen, just as it's clear that Vergil's too far gone -- too obsessed with the loss of his family, and overcome with the desire to become a powerful demon just as their father had been -- to be saved, to change his mind. Vergil would rather stay in Hell than to admit defeat.

Dante takes up Sparda's sword with him and returns to the human world. He cries for the loss of his brother, and Mary says "Even a devil may cry when he loses a loved one." With one final wave of demons to deal with, he and Mary team up until the end and go their separate ways.

Dante finally opens up shop, naming it "Devil May Cry." The end.

So what does the plot say about these characters?

For one, it tells the story of how Dante was a callous, arrogant, and irresponsible person, with heavy baggage that he refused to deal with until he had no choice but to face it head on. For the longest time, he hated his heritage, hated his own father, hated demons, for they had taken his home and his mother away. But by the end, and with with some unintended "guidance" from his dialog with Mary, he's become fully aware of the weight on his shoulders, and takes up the responsibility of following in his father's footsteps, armed with the sword he had left behind.

Secondly, it tells the story of how Vergil has become consumed by the pursuit of demonic power. Their father Sparda had been the most powerful demon that had ever existed, defeating and sealing away his own kind to save the human race. But Vergil didn't care about humanity, his own or anyone else's. Since the loss of his mother, all he could ever want was to gain absolute power, absolute control, to the point of stopping at nothing to achieve his goal, even going so far as to open a hell gate, fill a city with demons, at the cost of many people's lives. In his mind, once he'd taken Sparda's place as the most powerful demon ever, he would finally be at peace, and have full control of his life, so that he could never lose anything ever again.

And finally, we have the human side of it all. It's the story of how a man had been so obsessed with becoming a powerful demon that he sacrificed his own wife, for the sake of taking Sparda's power for himself. And while he had a daughter, he surely only had her so that he could later use her to break the demonic seal later on. Unlike Vergil, whose pursuit of power is driven by loss and the sense of powerlessness he still felt from having been separated from his family, and the death his mother, Arkham's pursuit of power is driven by complete selfishness and greed. He manipulated everyone in his life, right up until the end, after being defeated by Dante and Vergil, trying to justify his actions by saying "I wished to be a god! And I sacrificed one miserable human being for that reason. That is all! Was that really so awful?" to his own daughter. Even after putting her through complete misery, killing her mother, manipulating her, and attempting to steal Sparda's power for himself, and after falling so hard he can't even walk anymore, he is still trying to manipulate Mary into helping him. She rejects her real name right there and then and takes up the moniker Lady as her own name, before finally killing her father. After putting on a brave face the whole time, and demonstrating relentless strength and responsibility for her own father's actions, she finally breaks down and begins to cry. Just like Dante still cared about Vergil, Lady still cared about her father. Definitely not like a caring love, but a deep regret and guilt for having been powerless to stop him for so long.

What's done is done, and despite humans being physically weaker than demons, they have something demon's don't. And that's the human spirit. The heart. And that is the true source of Dante's strength, how he's still able to go on living and overcoming all obstacles in his way. He clings to his humanity, and he cares about doing the right thing. But that was a development he needed to have. He needed someone like Lady to bring him into the real world, to awake his sense of responsibility,

In the end, it was a story about responsibility, about family, about caring about others, about doing the right thing.

Meanwhile DMC5 ruined all of this beautiful and practically poetic writing for the sake of dumb, brainless fan service. Vergil is back! How? Why? Doesn't matter! He ripped off Nero's arm, which contained the Yamato, and he used it to separate from his own humanity, creating 'V'. How? Why? How the ♥♥♥♥ can Yamato do this? No idea! It just does, alright? Shut up. Anyway, Vergil's demon side gets nicknamed Urizen by V, and he pops out a demon tree out of nowhere that starts consuming all humans to create the ultimate source of power: A DANKY APPLE!

Meanwhile V has malformed versions of 1 normal enemy and 2 bosses from the first game because, how? Shut up, he just does! They live on his body like tribal tattoos and he can just summon them at will! How? Shut up, he just does, okay? Same with his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cane that he has to use to kill demons, no explanation given. Also, his version of the bird boss Griffon has zero to do with the original Griffon in terms of personality and character. Griffon had been a no-nonsense demon that was loyal to his own kind and was committed to killing Dante, but V's Griffon is a smug, sarcastic piece of ♥♥♥♥ that never shuts up. Why is he so far removed from the original character? Shut up I say, he just is, alright? Isn't he funny when you double jump and he's like "You're so high maintenance!" like V's so heavy right? Ha ha ha ha funny bird go brrr.

Meanwhile V also has the expository purpose of ruining everything about Devil May Cry as a storyline, his most grievous crime ruining Vergil's entire character. The whole point of Vergil, his existence, his personality, his reason for being, and his motivations, went from being a complex narrative that blurred the line of good and evil, self-preservation and thirst for power, to "he just wants to beat Dante lol." Suck my ♥♥♥♥.

The story in this game is complete garbage and not only does it ruin Vergil's character completely, it ruins all other established characters as well. The story literally starts with a refarded Nero, who lets his guard so far down that even a crippled Vergil can throw him across the room and rip his arm off in one go. Nero had become incredibly powerful by the end of the last game, but at the start of this one, he loses his arm to a useless, broken Vergil. Trish and Lady are rendered completely worthless, serving only to be transformed into two bosses without any sense, and Dante? Dante's given up. His story starts with him being alone, completely in the dark, having given up so hard that he can't even pay his power and water bills anymore. Dante's become so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid and empty-brained that he can't even recognize that the book V's carrying around is his own twin brother's diary. And, in the last game, despite being able to sense Vergil's essence inside Nero, he is completely incapable of sensing anything of Vergil at all in V, nor can he even sense the essences of Shadow, Nightmare, and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Griffon, who, in the first game, he had even shown sympathy for when he defeated him, and he got ultimately destroyed by his own master for failing to kill Dante. The writing in this game is so bad and so insulting that it even managed to ♥♥♥♥ on what little, yet substantially special characterization DMC1's story had.

DMC5 is a fine game, but the story is complete horse crap, it's a deep-cutting slap in the face to any real fan of the series, and it saddens me how much praise the game gets as a whole, when it's blatantly clear to me how infuriatingly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ the writing is. And the soundtrack is garbage, too, except for Your Legacy (the most DMC-like song in the entire game) and Bury The Light (which still doesn't fit into the rest of the series, but is still a damn good song in its own right).

Thanks for the insight. I remember playing DMC 3 back in the day but don't remember much except for the fact that the game was great.

[OddDo]

Tldr

[AILAD]

Wait, did you actually just write that whole summary of DMC 3 of the top of your head? At first I thought you copied it from a wiki or something.

[IIEaZyII]

i don´t have that problem. i only play with vergil haha

[Forgot7en]

Origineel geplaatst door RevelationSpace:

Wait, did you actually just write that whole summary of DMC 3 of the top of your head? At first I thought you copied it from a wiki or something.

Yes, I did. The DMC wiki is actually full of misinformation and fan theories passed off as facts, it's completely worthless.

[Walter C. Dornez]

Origineel geplaatst door Forgot7en:

Origineel geplaatst door RevelationSpace:

Wait, did you actually just write that whole summary of DMC 3 of the top of your head? At first I thought you copied it from a wiki or something.

Yes, I did. The DMC wiki is actually full of misinformation and fan theories passed off as facts, it's completely worthless.

To be honest, many of V's stuff is being explained on Visions of V, i know, it should be in the game to begin with, but at least we have answers now. Though some of them are in the game too, like why Shadow and the others are there to begin with? That's because Vergil separated the nightmares he had, the memories of being together with those servants of Mundus, then V made a contract with them to have their help and become one with his demonic side again.

Yamato's power to separate man from devil came out of nowhere, but i didn't find it that bad, especially since i personally think Yamato, Rebellion and Sparda were once one sword, only because it really looks like the twin's swords have some of Sparda's power too, and it was made by him to begin with, so maybe the true power of the dark knight will only be revealed once all three of them are combined, who knows. But it makes sense how Yamato and Rebellion work, with Dante's sword forcing his demonic side with his human side, the sword itself shows that with it's design, so it's not that crazy to think that Yamato would do just the opposite of that.

Now a crippled Vergil being able to defeat Nero was really.... Meh, but he was caught off guard, and Vergil still had some strength left, it was just his body that couldn't keep itself together anymore. I also don't think he died in DMC 1, maybe he just went to hell after being defeated, but his body got completely destroyed in the process. Then again, we don't have a official answer. but i like to think that way.

(Couldn't quote your first post for some reason, steam kept giving me a error.)

[JackieTheDemon]

Origineel geplaatst door IIEaZyII:

i don´t have that problem. i only play with vergil haha

A man of culture

[ModernSamurai]

They need to add Lady and Trish. It's not too late. They added Vergil nearly 2 years after the original release. They will do it someday.

[Forgot7en]

Origineel geplaatst door Walter C. Dornez:

Yes, I did. The DMC wiki is actually full of misinformation and fan theories passed off as facts, it's completely worthless.

To be honest, many of V's stuff is being explained on Visions of V, i know, it should be in the game to begin with, but at least we have answers now. Though some of them are in the game too, like why Shadow and the others are there to begin with? That's because Vergil separated the nightmares he had, the memories of being together with those servants of Mundus, then V made a contract with them to have their help and become one with his demonic side again.[/quote]
That makes no sense because V emerges from Vergil already with the tattoos on. It also doesn't explain why a single Shadow would choose to tag along with him, and doesn't explain why Griffon is completely out of character, and doesn't explain why Nightmare is now a generic brute instead of the doom train it used to be.

Yamato's power to separate man from devil came out of nowhere, but i didn't find it that bad, especially since i personally think Yamato, Rebellion and Sparda were once one sword, only because it really looks like the twin's swords have some of Sparda's power too, and it was made by him to begin with, so maybe the true power of the dark knight will only be revealed once all three of them are combined, who knows.

Sparda separating his power into three swords is complete bs that was introduced in this game. It was never a thing. Prior to this game, the canon was that Sparda locked away his power inside Force Edge, the ONE sword with his power, which is then unlocked with the perfect Amulet.

Should also be noted that Rebellion came from DMC2 and in that game, it was just a normal sword. DMC3 retconned this and called it a memento of Dante's father. It and Yamato are the twin's swords because they act as lock & key to their demonic powers, which are awakened after coming into contact either with their blood or their body in a drastic way. However, it should be noted that Yamato made its first appearance in DMC1 as an unlockable weapon that came with the Legendary Dark Knight costume. The item description essentially says it's capable of "slicing through the darkness" and that's it. In-game, it transforms into the Sparda sword when DT'd, indicating that this might've been the original sword Sparda used when he became human, or perhaps it was his sword from the beginning, but either way it doesn't matter because it's just a non-canonical costume with a bonus weapon in that game.
However, DMC4 retconned Yamato as ALSO being able to open the Hell gate in Fortuna and activate the Savior (combined with Sparda's blood), and this again indicates that the sword must've been Sparda's primary weapon while he was living in the human world, since he left his powers locked away in the Force Edge in the demon world. I didn't really like tacking on another ability on the Yamato just to turn it into a plot device, but at the very least the Sparda connection is there, and it doubles as a connection to the LDK costume in DMC1, so it's acceptable.
DMC5 is the first time in the series that was like "oh by the way all three swords have Sparda's power." It makes absolutely no sense, and tacking another ability on Yamato to allow Vergil the ability to separate from his humanity is just stupid, but not as stupid as changing his entire persona to "he just wants to beat Dante lol."

But it makes sense how Yamato and Rebellion work, with Dante's sword forcing his demonic side with his human side, the sword itself shows that with it's design, so it's not that crazy to think that Yamato would do just the opposite of that.

I say it's an immense leap in logic. Like I said, they were previously functioning as lock & key to their respective Devil Triggers. Being ALSO able to rip the humanity out of their bodies is going too far into fanfic territory, causing far too many and too drastic retcons to established lore. Just like giving Rebellion the ability to merge with Sparda when it's most convenient to the plot.

I also don't think he died in DMC 1, maybe he just went to hell after being defeated, but his body got completely destroyed in the process. Then again, we don't have a official answer. but i like to think that way.

There is in an official answer. Well, a partial one. In the DMC4 History of DMC, it's explained that Nelo Angelo was an armor inhabited by Vergil's soul, which means Mundus had separated it from his body. This means that after Dante destroyed the armor, the soul returned to Vergil's body. Whatever happened between then and DMC5's plot in the timeline is left to the imagination however, but it's safe to say that Vergil must've been stuck in Hell, weakened and corrupted for a long time, and who knows how he was even able to get out.

[Walter C. Dornez]

Origineel geplaatst door Forgot7en:

Origineel geplaatst door Walter C. Dornez:

Yes, I did. The DMC wiki is actually full of misinformation and fan theories passed off as facts, it's completely worthless.

To be honest, many of V's stuff is being explained on Visions of V, i know, it should be in the game to begin with, but at least we have answers now. Though some of them are in the game too, like why Shadow and the others are there to begin with? That's because Vergil separated the nightmares he had, the memories of being together with those servants of Mundus, then V made a contract with them to have their help and become one with his demonic side again.

That makes no sense because V emerges from Vergil already with the tattoos on. It also doesn't explain why a single Shadow would choose to tag along with him, and doesn't explain why Griffon is completely out of character, and doesn't explain why Nightmare is now a generic brute instead of the doom train it used to be.

He only emerges like that, because they didn't put the entire story about what happened that night in the game, it was just a brief cutscene.. It's explained in visions of v that before Urizen could kill V, Griffon carried him out of the house, in to a dumpster, soon after making a contract with him, because he doesn't want to die, he's just a memory after all, he's not the real Griffon, maybe that's why it's so different. Shadow and Nightmare were already out of there by the time V and Griffon escaped too.

Sparda separating his power into three swords is complete bs that was introduced in this game. It was never a thing. Prior to this game, the canon was that Sparda locked away his power inside Force Edge, the ONE sword with his power, which is then unlocked with the perfect Amulet.

Yeah, i know that the " real " power of Sparda was inside the Force Edge, before the last DMC, but i always thought it was really weird how Sparda, a demon that lived for so long, did such incredible things, and after the first game, Dante surpassed him, with everyone calling him the Legendary Dark Knight. There is so much that we don't know about Sparda, which was expanded in novels, manga and now the last game. He made Rebellion and Yamato, so it's not a complete BS that he could have separated his power equally, between his three swords.

But Yamato didn't make much sense that it has this power to separate man from devil, but look at Rebellion. It's design from the start said something about Dante, the skulls on the sword are different from each other, like one side is the human one, and the other his demonic heritage. This is not something people were thinking now, it was a long time ago, don't know if you heard it before, and Rebelion forced Dante to activate his demonic powers, while Vergil... We don't know really how he did it, or when. Maybe it was explained in the manga or something, i don't remember.

The point is, Yamato being the opposite is not that weird, just like the twins are not the same. I do agree is weird how Vergil just wants to beat Dante now BUT do remember that they always loved fighting each other. They didn't talk out their differences, both in DMC 3, the manga that is before the third game, and so on.

It would be worse if none of this made sense, but it does! It was never estabilished in previous games, but then again, Dante never had the Rebellion in the first game, he didn't have none of his styles powers from DMC 3. In the manga he used Desperate Devil Trigger (The secret one in DMC 2) that is his real form, but how could he use that so young, as he didn't even had a devil trigger yet, compared to his older self. Now it makes sense, Rebellion had this power all the time, and it protected him just like the Sparda would, just how Yamato protected Nero in a way, in DMC 4.

As long the things they put in the next game make sense, i won't mind it that much.

[bullerbuller7]

Is it explained how Urizen is actually that strong?
He's a part of Vergil, and he has the Qliphoth to strengthen him.
But that strong? Why is he even stronger than Vergil to begin with?
He split his soul in 2 and one of the parts become stronger than the full soul, then merge both parts and they become one soul again which is even stronger. How does it make sense?

[JackieTheDemon]

Origineel geplaatst door bullerbuller7:

Is it explained how Urizen is actually that strong?
He's a part of Vergil, and he has the Qliphoth to strengthen him.
But that strong? Why is he even stronger than Vergil to begin with?
He split his soul in 2 and one of the parts become stronger than the full soul, then merge both parts and they become one soul again which is even stronger. How does it make sense?

If you haven't noticed, he's been consuming human blood for a while, and he eats the apple, the same apple mundus ate to become to king of hell. The characters literally tell you the whole thing.

[Forgot7en]

Origineel geplaatst door Walter C. Dornez:

before Urizen could kill V, Griffon carried him out of the house, in to a dumpster, soon after making a contract with him, because he doesn't want to die, he's just a memory after all, he's not the real Griffon, maybe that's why it's so different.

Fine, it's a memory of Vergil's, but that still doesn't explain ANYTHING. They're different because they're memories? Nothing adds up. Did Vergil remember them wrong? Because he's got brain damage?

Yeah, i know that the " real " power of Sparda was inside the Force Edge, before the last DMC, but i always thought it was really weird how Sparda, a demon that lived for so long, did such incredible things, and after the first game, Dante surpassed him, with everyone calling him the Legendary Dark Knight. There is so much that we don't know about Sparda, which was expanded in novels, manga and now the last game. He made Rebellion and Yamato, so it's not a complete BS that he could have separated his power equally, between his three swords.

a) We actually have no idea how old Sparda was when he defeated the demons and sealed the demon world. Because he left his powers on the other side, he lived as a human for 2,000 years before having twins with Eva (and whether or not she also lived that long depends on whether or not you accept Bayonetta's canon as canoical with DMC, which I don't).

b) The only "incredible things" we know for sure Sparda did were:
1- Defeated Mundus
2- Sealed the demon world/hell
3- Established the castletown of Fortuna

That's it. We know nothing else. Even with all the garbage BS DMC5 pulls, it still told absolutely nothing about Sparda besides the refarded retcons.

c) Only Trish ever called him the Legendary Dark Knight Dante, nobody else, and only at the end of the first game.

d) Nothing about Sparda was explained in novels, nor the DMC3 manga. I don't know about Visions of V because I refuse to shovel anymore trash writing into my brain, but all the first novel says about Sparda is that he "betrayed and fled the demon world" and "took his superior swordsmanship with him, passing on that deadly legacy to his son" (Dante). In the second novel, Sparda is really only name-dropped in reference to his "legends" about saving humankind; though there's more about Sparda in the second half of the book, it's taking place in an alternate reality that doesn't matter to the original Sparda canon.

e) It was never established that Sparda made Rebellion and Yamato, only that he passed them down to Dante and Vergil, nothing more. For all we know, the next game might even say it was Eva who made the swords, who knows what they'll pull out of their asses next?

But Yamato didn't make much sense that it has this power to separate man from devil, but look at Rebellion. It's design from the start said something about Dante, the skulls on the sword are different from each other, like one side is the human one, and the other his demonic heritage. This is not something people were thinking now, it was a long time ago, don't know if you heard it before, and Rebelion forced Dante to activate his demonic powers, while Vergil... We don't know really how he did it, or when. Maybe it was explained in the manga or something, i don't remember.

From "the start" you'd have to go back to DMC2, where it was just a regular sword, like I mentioned earlier. But if we're going with the DMC3 as the "start" the skulls really aren't any different, only one has horns and the other doesn't. That's all. Also before it was awakened, the horned skull's mouth was closed.

As for how Vergil did it, it's shown in the manga, which you may or may not take as canon, and I did mention it earlier. He was at the graveyard visiting Sparda's grave when demons attacked and he got impaled with Yamato.

The point is, Yamato being the opposite is not that weird, just like the twins are not the same. I do agree is weird how Vergil just wants to beat Dante now BUT do remember that they always loved fighting each other. They didn't talk out their differences, both in DMC 3, the manga that is before the third game, and so on.

It's definitely not weird that Yamato has different properties and abilities from Rebellion, but I wouldn't call it the "opposite." Opposite of what? They were never established as opposites just because Dante and Vergil derive some twisted pleasure from their brotherly fighting. Even their personalities aren't absolute opposites, they still share some similarities if you bothered to analyse them in the first four games (while DMC5 ruined both almost completely).

Changing Vergil's motivation to something as petty as "he just wants to beat Dante" is tucking stupid and ruins the whole development he had in DMC3. He was so much more complex than that, and there's no excuse for this garbage writing in this game to mess up his character so spectacularly just for the sake of moronic fanservice. It's like they were thinking "Everyone loves Vergil right? Well here his! Fighting with Dante again! Brrrrr" Tuck that.

It would be worse if none of this made sense, but it does!

No, it does not.

then again, Dante never had the Rebellion in the first game, he didn't have none of his styles powers from DMC 3.

Gameplay is not canonical, and he wasn't using Rebellion because he took up the Force Edge to symbolize his respect for Sparda (and Vergil), if you want to come up with a retroactive reason for that.

In the manga he used Desperate Devil Trigger (The secret one in DMC 2)

No he didn't. It was a completely different demon form.

that is his real form,

No, it isn't. His "real form" is whatever form he changes to, which always changes from game to game.

but how could he use that so young, as he didn't even had a devil trigger yet, compared to his older self.

Because the manga also has ♥♥♥♥ writing and makes no sense.

Now it makes sense, Rebellion had this power all the time, and it protected him just like the Sparda would,

The Sparda sword never showed any ability to "protect" him, and there was nothing in the manga that indicated that it was Rebellion doing that. Dante transformed there and then for reasons convenient to the plot, because the guy writing the manga was not part of the DMC3 dev team, nor did he work with the original writer; he was just pulling stuff out of his ass. And then he quit the project before finishing volume 3. And good riddance.

just how Yamato protected Nero in a way, in DMC 4.

That's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION. DMC4 features several hints that Nero is related to Vergil, with Sanctus saying three times that he has Sparda's blood. Yamato likely reacted to Nero's blood when it was shed in its vicinity. In the novel, it's explained that in this moment, Nero blacked out and had a vision of Vergil speaking to him in his mind, meaning that a part of Vergil is in Yamato itself. The only reason Yamato "protected" Nero is because he's literally Vergil's son. Nothing more, nothing less.

As long the things they put in the next game make sense, i won't mind it that much.

I couldn't agree more, but absolutely nothing in this one makes sense, and it seems like you don't know enough about the series canon to fully comprehend that.

Origineel geplaatst door bullerbuller7:

Is it explained how Urizen is actually that strong?
He's a part of Vergil, and he has the Qliphoth to strengthen him.
But that strong? Why is he even stronger than Vergil to begin with?
He split his soul in 2 and one of the parts become stronger than the full soul, then merge both parts and they become one soul again which is even stronger. How does it make sense?

The implication is that Vergil's demonic side is no longer being "held back" by his human side. Just like with everything else in this game that makes no sense, it's just fanfic levels of ♥♥♥♥ writing.

Origineel geplaatst door JackieTheDemon:

If you haven't noticed, he's been consuming human blood for a while, and he eats the apple, the same apple mundus ate to become to king of hell. The characters literally tell you the whole thing.

Still doesn't explain how his demonic form was suddenly super strong to begin with to kickstart the whole Qliphoth thing. It doesn't explain how he even planted the thing, how he even knew about it, and retroactively tacking on a "btw Mundus did the same thing lel" explanation is freaking hilariously bad writing.

Mundus was the king of hell, period. The guy even looked like God literally. Now this game is saying that coincidentally he just happened to also become the king because he ate a fruit? Bull. Shiz.

Also, since he was defeated, how come not a single being, human or otherwise, never thought to get that same fruit? Everyone's always been obsessed with Sparda, Sparda was the strongest, the most powerful, Sparda is the ultimate power, but all of a sudden, no wait, we forgot about an autistic apple that changes everything! QUICK SOMEBODY TELL VERGIL SO HE CAN FINALLY DEFEAT DANTE
Weak and lame writing. I absolutely hate it when writers pull complete nonsense out of their ass like this. They ruined the characters in the process and couldn't even tell a decent story with a lick of sense. DMC2 is a far worse game, but it has an infinitely superior story.

[bullerbuller7]

Origineel geplaatst door JackieTheDemon:

Origineel geplaatst door bullerbuller7:

Is it explained how Urizen is actually that strong?
He's a part of Vergil, and he has the Qliphoth to strengthen him.
But that strong? Why is he even stronger than Vergil to begin with?
He split his soul in 2 and one of the parts become stronger than the full soul, then merge both parts and they become one soul again which is even stronger. How does it make sense?

If you haven't noticed, he's been consuming human blood for a while, and he eats the apple, the same apple mundus ate to become to king of hell. The characters literally tell you the whole thing.

Just stop.
I literally mentioned in my post that i took the Qliphoth into consideration...
It just doesn't make sense for Urizen to be that strong.


@ Forgot7en
I can only make sense out of it by thinking that the splitting did in fact just strengthen his demonic side, and the merge would weaken him again.
But the human side, V, had been on a journey that strengthened his human side, which somehow makes the demon/human side merge better?

It's like a dbz powerlevel fanfic.

It feels like they wanted to make an epic finish to the story and tie up all loose ends.