Level scaling is somewhat a deal breaker to me

[HoboForEternity]

It's lazy and bad. Things like Oblivion is the worst. Regional level scaling is barely acceptable. RPG developers should follow piranha bytes and make the monster level are static and their strength depends on the species. Not lame ass bethesda game "level 1 wolf" then you fight "level 20 wolf" with same movesets, character model and everything, just amped up stats.

[JonWoo]

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

The same people who complain about level scaling seem to miss that you get harder enemies as you level in a lot of the best rpgs, meaning what really ends up happening is you get stuck fighting the same 4-5 endgame mobs instead of being able to explore the entire world and still be challenged.

I'd rather have level scaling then get stuck in a boring endgame.

I’d just like my +10 hellfire broadsword of slaying to not take 10 hits to kill the same goblin that took 10 hits to kill using my rusty iron broadsword 30 levels ago.

[￰]

It's kind of necessary for this game like Echo2Omega says, or else you either get forced into a linear route or get bored from not feeling much challenge after a few levels. The most important thing is that it's just implemented well.

[Flip_Light]

Originally posted by Jonwoo89:

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

The same people who complain about level scaling seem to miss that you get harder enemies as you level in a lot of the best rpgs, meaning what really ends up happening is you get stuck fighting the same 4-5 endgame mobs instead of being able to explore the entire world and still be challenged.

I'd rather have level scaling then get stuck in a boring endgame.

I’d just like my +10 hellfire broadsword of slaying to not take 10 hits to kill the same goblin that took 10 hits to kill using my rusty iron broadsword 30 levels ago.

Right but what you're complaining about is literally just an RPG thing. You either have level scaling where you actually get to keep fighting a diverse set of enemies, or you don't and you're stuck fighting the same 4-5 mobs for the rest of the game until you go through NG+ (because by the time you can one shot that goblin it's usually a waste of time to fight said goblin.)

You're also grossly misrepresenting level scaling. Level scaling when done right will still - usually - give the edge to the leveled player due to the tools they have available. You just still actually have to work for your kills, you can't just steam roll stuff.

[Shibby]

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

The same people who complain about level scaling seem to miss that you get harder enemies as you level in a lot of the best rpgs, meaning what really ends up happening is you get stuck fighting the same 4-5 endgame mobs instead of being able to explore the entire world and still be challenged.

I'd rather have level scaling then get stuck in a boring endgame.

The point is that you could just skip all the leveling and just make the game at a certain difficulty. Let's say it takes 10 shots to kill a level 1 common enemy and then 10 shots to kill a level 30 common enemy then what is the point of even having the levels? The leveling is meaningless is what we are talking about.

[JonWoo]

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

Originally posted by Jonwoo89:

I’d just like my +10 hellfire broadsword of slaying to not take 10 hits to kill the same goblin that took 10 hits to kill using my rusty iron broadsword 30 levels ago.

Right but what you're complaining about is literally just an RPG thing. You either have level scaling where you actually get to keep fighting a diverse set of enemies, or you don't and you're stuck fighting the same 4-5 mobs for the rest of the game until you go through NG+ (because by the time you can one shot that goblin it's usually a waste of time to fight said goblin.)

You're also grossly misrepresenting level scaling. Level scaling when done right will still - usually - give the edge to the leveled player due to the tools they have available. You just still actually have to work for your kills, you can't just steam roll stuff.

And as I’ve said, I prefer that to level scaling. And of course it was hyperbole for the most part. Most games aren’t that bad about it thankfully. Skyrim was a hell of an improvement over Oblivion and I enjoyed it for the most part but playing Ultimate Skyrim to me is just leaps and bounds better with its static levels

[Flip_Light]

Originally posted by Shibby:

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

The same people who complain about level scaling seem to miss that you get harder enemies as you level in a lot of the best rpgs, meaning what really ends up happening is you get stuck fighting the same 4-5 endgame mobs instead of being able to explore the entire world and still be challenged.

I'd rather have level scaling then get stuck in a boring endgame.

The point is that you could just skip all the leveling and just make the game at a certain difficulty. Let's say it takes 10 shots to kill a level 1 common enemy and then 10 shots to kill a level 30 common enemy then what is the point of even having the levels? The leveling is meaningless is what we are talking about.

No, it's not, because again leveling opens up new tools for you to use in combat. It's objectively incorrect to claim a level 1 player, even when leveling scaling is involved, has the same tools available to them as a level 30 player.

And again, in most cases when level scaling is done well this isn't a problem. Enemy variety is helped by keeping old enemies relevant in endgame while still giving you as a player more tools to handle those same old enemies. This in my eyes is 10x better then being stuck fighting the same 4-5 enemies for all of your endgame.

You also seem to be grossly misrepresenting leveling in rpgs. A level 30 enemy tends to take the same time to kill as the level 1 enemies did when you were playing at level 1.

The only difference w/o scaling is now those level 1 enemies (normally) are completely pointless to kill at level 30, but you can steam roll them for no reason.

That's not the case in biomutant from everything we've been told. Most enemies will stay relevant, they will have gear they can drop, etc.

[￰]

Originally posted by Shibby:

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

The same people who complain about level scaling seem to miss that you get harder enemies as you level in a lot of the best rpgs, meaning what really ends up happening is you get stuck fighting the same 4-5 endgame mobs instead of being able to explore the entire world and still be challenged.

I'd rather have level scaling then get stuck in a boring endgame.

The point is that you could just skip all the leveling and just make the game at a certain difficulty. Let's say it takes 10 shots to kill a level 1 common enemy and then 10 shots to kill a level 30 common enemy then what is the point of even having the levels? The leveling is meaningless is what we are talking about.

There's more to getting stronger in this game than just leveling up and improving your strength skill, there's also crafting weapons with different parts and unlocking different moves to use in combat. Likewise in Skyrim there's getting different weapons and armor and upgrading them with enchantments or more damage, and getting different perks or spells to use. I didn't mind the scaling at all in that game and it was a lot better than how it was in Oblivion. All these tools you're given to fight the scaling enemies is what makes the game more engaging, otherwise it would be kind of predictable. You might hit the same enemy for 10 hits in 29 levels, or you might hit it 5 times or 15 times or use some fun abilities instead of just hitting it.

[Sakiel]

wow did not know lvl scaling was in this game.... Bummer. Might not buy

[Shibby]

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

Originally posted by Shibby:

The point is that you could just skip all the leveling and just make the game at a certain difficulty. Let's say it takes 10 shots to kill a level 1 common enemy and then 10 shots to kill a level 30 common enemy then what is the point of even having the levels? The leveling is meaningless is what we are talking about.

No, it's not, because again leveling opens up new tools for you to use in combat. It's objectively incorrect to claim a level 1 player, even when leveling scaling is involved, has the same tools available to them as a level 30 player.

And again, in most cases when level scaling is done well this isn't a problem. Enemy variety is helped by keeping old enemies relevant in endgame while still giving you as a player more tools to handle those same old enemies. This in my eyes is 10x better then being stuck fighting the same 4-5 enemies for all of your endgame.

You also seem to be grossly misrepresenting leveling in rpgs. A level 30 enemy tends to take the same time to kill as the level 1 enemies did when you were playing at level 1.

The only difference w/o scaling is now those level 1 enemies (normally) are completely pointless to kill at level 30, but you can steam roll them for no reason.

That's not the case in biomutant from everything we've been told. Most enemies will stay relevant, they will have gear they can drop, etc.

You do realize that I am saying that they could just make the game at max level and just make that the default difficulty setting as you will never be more powerful because the enemies are always leveling up with you. Which makes leveling up pointless. In other words they should have just made a difficulty setting because you will never run into enemies that are too powerful or too weak with level scaling. They will always be the same difficulty.

[Flip_Light]

Originally posted by Shibby:

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

No, it's not, because again leveling opens up new tools for you to use in combat. It's objectively incorrect to claim a level 1 player, even when leveling scaling is involved, has the same tools available to them as a level 30 player.

And again, in most cases when level scaling is done well this isn't a problem. Enemy variety is helped by keeping old enemies relevant in endgame while still giving you as a player more tools to handle those same old enemies. This in my eyes is 10x better then being stuck fighting the same 4-5 enemies for all of your endgame.

You also seem to be grossly misrepresenting leveling in rpgs. A level 30 enemy tends to take the same time to kill as the level 1 enemies did when you were playing at level 1.

The only difference w/o scaling is now those level 1 enemies (normally) are completely pointless to kill at level 30, but you can steam roll them for no reason.

That's not the case in biomutant from everything we've been told. Most enemies will stay relevant, they will have gear they can drop, etc.

You do realize that I am saying that they could just make the game at max level and just make that the default difficulty setting as you will never be more powerful because the enemies are always leveling up with you. Which makes leveling up pointless. In other words they should have just made a difficulty setting because you will never run into enemies that are too powerful or too weak with level scaling. They will always be the same difficulty.

This isn't true because again, new abilities are locked behind levels and having the correct points to spend to unlock those abilities.

Abilities are not all flat % stat upgrades by themselves.

You are wrong.

Having access to other abilities may not be direct stat % upgrades, but they can still make dealing with certain enemies easier (or more fun.) This is why level scaling works in games that do it well. Because you have new tools or abilities to make dealing with old enemies easier. It isn't just about stat %'s lmfao.

Not to mention level is not GEAR scaling. GEAR in games that have level scaling tend to make huge differences, and you can get better GEAR by being a higher level.

[￰]

Originally posted by Shibby:

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

No, it's not, because again leveling opens up new tools for you to use in combat. It's objectively incorrect to claim a level 1 player, even when leveling scaling is involved, has the same tools available to them as a level 30 player.

And again, in most cases when level scaling is done well this isn't a problem. Enemy variety is helped by keeping old enemies relevant in endgame while still giving you as a player more tools to handle those same old enemies. This in my eyes is 10x better then being stuck fighting the same 4-5 enemies for all of your endgame.

You also seem to be grossly misrepresenting leveling in rpgs. A level 30 enemy tends to take the same time to kill as the level 1 enemies did when you were playing at level 1.

The only difference w/o scaling is now those level 1 enemies (normally) are completely pointless to kill at level 30, but you can steam roll them for no reason.

That's not the case in biomutant from everything we've been told. Most enemies will stay relevant, they will have gear they can drop, etc.

You do realize that I am saying that they could just make the game at max level and just make that the default difficulty setting as you will never be more powerful because the enemies are always leveling up with you. Which makes leveling up pointless. In other words they should have just made a difficulty setting because you will never run into enemies that are too powerful or too weak with level scaling. They will always be the same difficulty.

The leveling is to let you choose how you want to specialize. Do you want to be more charismatic than capable of combat? Or do you want to focus more on agility than vitality? Do you want to feel lucky? Use stronger magic or just hit things harder with a plank? The difficulty is variable because of this, you get to decide how you want it. And these attributes also change the way your character looks, at the start at least. For example I know I'm putting more into charisma because I want to try and work things out peacefully with the different factions, so I'll have a harder time fighting.

[Xsurfer]

Most games have the level scaling and difficulty slider.

You need to get levels to improve skills that make you able to kill creatures faster, and faster even though they are scaled to your level. Your skills and tools improve so you get better and feel more powerful.
With levels locked to you when you gain skills from gaining levels then you can find different ways to improve your playstyles, you can build melee characters that get better fighting skills or focus on distance weapon skills. Allowing the player the freedom to go anywhere and experience the world however they want to.
This also allows for larger tougher boss creatures that you will need to improve your skills and tools to even have a chance with.

Last thing even when games have level scaling they can still set an area to be a minimum level in most cases.

[Demonsouls1993]

Originally posted by galumn:

I didn't know that this game has level scaling. This is suck.
I hope there an option to turn it off or at least we could mod it.

Level scaling is one of reasons I couldn't finish AC:Odyssey. After awhile, the game would feel like a chore and not fun anymore. I get that devs want their game to always feel challenging, but level scaling make it tedious instead. 😩

LMFAO u can turn that off in odyssey u that lazy to look in the settings LMFAO

[galumn]

Originally posted by Demonsouls1993:

LMFAO u can turn that off in odyssey u that lazy to look in the settings LMFAO

Then show me where you can turn that off.

The last time I played it, there is no option to turn it off. Level scaling would change with difficulty settings, but can never be turned off.

[Commander Freedom]

Dude level scaling is the best to keep playing an RPG and keep it tough and interesting, I feel like you're very insecure IRL amirite? gotta be the toughest guy in a video game? lol
It's an RPG, not a boring FPS that you're done with after 10 hours.