Is Testudo Worthless?

[omnius]

I'm playing Rome for the first time and it looks like the two Roman special units aren't so good since I don't see any good use for the Testudo special ability. It only protects against ranged attacks so is worthless against melee attacks. If I fortify a unit it can't also do the Testudo ability. I've opted for using fortify instead of testudo as that seems to be the best option overall. So from now on I won't waste time or resources on building Hastatus or Legionnaires. It looks like Swordsmen are the better option. A pity.

I wish the Testudo formation were like a promotion like Shieldbearer with say a 10 to 15% boost to defense against ranged attacks but active all the time like promotions are. When building them they'd automatically receive the testudo promotion or it should always be available to select when promoting them.

[Siontific]

The power of the second tier unique units is in their timing. Comparing a roman UU to a swordsmen doesn't really work because you can get a roman UU online a good 40 turns before a swordsmen, easily. This is what makes the Unique units strong; they're effectively "endgame" units that you can bring online in the mid-game.

Naturally, many of them are outclassed by actual endgame units. The cataphract, for example, is a whopping 10 strength unit - making it the most powerful mounted unit in the game. That doesn't mean all of the mounted UUs are worthless because you can bring every one of them online and into a fight some 40 turns before the world will ever see it's first Cataphract.

That said, testuodo isn't worthless;

- it's a massive amount more defensive bonus than fortify, against range.
- you only need 3 turns to reach your counter attack instead of 5 - the counter attack is melee only so while the defense is weaker than fortify - you'll be able to counter more often which is very powerful.

Situational, perhaps, but not useless. Some Empires are very slinger or archer heavy, in which case rome will do very well here.

[IceMatrix]

Originally posted by Feigro:

The power of the second tier unique units is in their timing. Comparing a roman UU to a swordsmen doesn't really work because you can get a roman UU online a good 40 turns before a swordsmen, easily. This is what makes the Unique units strong; they're effectively "endgame" units that you can bring online in the mid-game.

Naturally, many of them are outclassed by actual endgame units. The cataphract, for example, is a whopping 10 strength unit - making it the most powerful mounted unit in the game. That doesn't mean all of the mounted UUs are worthless because you can bring every one of them online and into a fight some 40 turns before the world will ever see it's first Cataphract.

That said, testuodo isn't worthless;

- it's a massive amount more defensive bonus than fortify, against range.
- you only need 3 turns to reach your counter attack instead of 5 - the counter attack is melee only so while the defense is weaker than fortify - you'll be able to counter more often which is very powerful.

Situational, perhaps, but not useless. Some Empires are very slinger or archer heavy, in which case rome will do very well here.

Excellent breakdown. I confess that I likely rarely get max value out of uu's

[Siontific]

For the military minded, I would say Leveraging a UU power spike is perhaps one of the most valuable skills to develop in this game. A swift 4 laws will get you a 6 strength unit that will be better than almost everything else in the era of axes, chariots, and archers, and it will have staying power as stronger units come online since Onagers, Ballista, Horsemen and Macemen are all also strength 6.

Then, as you leverage the 8 strength unit, it's very doable to reach this power spike even on highest difficulties before a nearby opponent is fielding any strength 8's of their own. They'll typically hit longbows or Pikes first. Pikes can ruin the day of a mounted nation, but you can usually find at least one nearby target that is still fielding armies of mostly strength 5 or 6s and you can go smash them since your regular forces will be backed by 8 strength units.

Utilizing the timing of these units, just a handful of them 4-8 units at the back of a traditional army of the era will do a lot of work. Ultimately, as the game progresses you will indeed reach a later era where you find yourself moving toward cohorts, barding, or windlass to get the endgame powerhouse units.

The era of the 8 strength unique unit comes before these powerful units hit the scene, and understanding that is the key to making them do the most work for your empire. Since, as the OP has correctly noticed; the Legions don't really offer much to an empire that can field swords. The Three man chariot will be usurped by the Cataphract, etc. Some UUs have better staying power than others - the Siege Tower is essentially always useful, for example.

But that's also, technically, a timing thing - The Polybolo is a 10 strength siege unit that is on one of the most expensive technologies in the game - I find it hard to even leverage this unit in a game with Assyria because I've already conquered stuff and won the game with siege towers before I'm even close to this technology.

Even so, once swordsmen hit the scene, it's better to have an army of a dozen well promoted Legionaires to field along side freshly built or upgraded Swords than having none at all. They'll still do lots of damage to targets like longbows or pikes. The mobility of the Egyptian mounter lancer will give you an 8 strength archer unit that can blitz into territory and strike targets with ease; this is useful even in the endgame - but the real power of these units is that you can get them early.