Wonders

[Johnny 5]

When playing as Greece, is it viable to get wonders? It seems the AI is able to pump out wonders, I never have anywhere near enough stone until way into the game....

[Outis]

You get the Wonders by taking the AI city with the Wonders ;-)

[Siontific]

Greece starts with stonecutting so just build a bunch of quarries

[Johnny 5]

Originally posted by Feigro:

Greece starts with stonecutting so just build a bunch of quarries

Yeah but some civs have wonders by turn like 20, if a quarry is producing 6-8 even with thats still at least 50 odd turns before you get eenough taking into account build times etc

[tiamats4esgares]

Originally posted by Johnny 5:

Originally posted by Feigro:

Greece starts with stonecutting so just build a bunch of quarries

Yeah but some civs have wonders by turn like 20, if a quarry is producing 6-8 even with thats still at least 50 odd turns before you get eenough taking into account build times etc

Depending on difficulty, AI civs start with quite a bit more than human players do.

Egypt starts with a ton of stone AND builds wonders faster.

[Johnny 5]

Yes I was aware that Egypt and Kush start with this and the advantage, I play with the difficulty and rules that there is no advantage difficulty wise. so I am always surprised to see people like Rome or Hittites rush wonders

[Johnny 5]

Also my maps always start stupid, like I'm surrounded by 4 salt deposits or 6 deer or something stupid.

[Ax4711]

Hit ESC and start over with a new map until you like it. And you definitely need a lot of quarries, or conquer those wonders later.

[mk11]

Depends a lot on luck and priorities. Get some marble and not only do you get stone you can also get more civics from the stonemason. Marble next to mountains and you will be rolling in stone. Also can get stone from goody huts,

You don't mention the difficulty you are playing at. If the AI is on an easier one that is not only more starting resources but more orders to explore with/build improvements.

Keep in mind the different families. Some give the civics you need or allow faster rural specialists.

Early game stone is quite cheap to buy so having money can replace the stone. Someone like Carthage has advantages in getting money.

Unless playing Egypt, I wouldn't expect to get Weak wonders, may have a chance at developing ones and expect to get strong and legendary ones.

[tiamats4esgares]

Hittites can sell wood to buy stone for wonders.

[mk11]

Originally posted by tiamats4esgares:

Hittites can sell wood to buy stone for wonders.

Never quite worked out the numbers but I think early game Hittites using orders to collect wood to sell is not cost-effective. The resale value of the orders is more than the value of the wood. Collecting wood to avoid buying wood though is worth it.

Also, Hittites can collect the wood they need so rarely buy it. Other nations have wood shortages so need to buy it. It is to the Hittites advantage for the wood price to rise, so selling has disadvantages.

[tiamats4esgares]

Originally posted by mk11:

Originally posted by tiamats4esgares:

Hittites can sell wood to buy stone for wonders.

Never quite worked out the numbers but I think early game Hittites using orders to collect wood to sell is not cost-effective. The resale value of the orders is more than the value of the wood. Collecting wood to avoid buying wood though is worth it.

Also, Hittites can collect the wood they need so rarely buy it. Other nations have wood shortages so need to buy it. It is to the Hittites advantage for the wood price to rise, so selling has disadvantages.

Usually the WORST you can do is 2 orders to get 20 wood, sometimes even 40 wood for 3 orders depending on how greedy you are (or at least more than 30 wood for 3 orders) and quite often even 15+ wood for 1 order. Orders sell for 10 gold each but for 10 or 20 or 30 gold you can get wood enough to sell for 30 or 40 or 80 gold which slowly diminishes if you sell a lot. Obviously, don't sell more than you need to, but you have wood on demand. It's pretty nifty.

And I don't care how much other civs have to pay for wood. This barely diminishes the price anyway. Who cares?

As long as you only sell wood when you need the gold (and why/when else would you?), the price won't diminish all that much.

There's no reason to let my orders turn to gold when I can be making a profit by turning them to wood.

And I don't usually build wonders, so I'm not out here using this gold for hundreds of stone but my point was that you CAN, if you want, and maybe the AI does and maybe that's why the AI Hittites can build wonders fast.

[Johnny 5]

Originally posted by Ax4711:

Hit ESC and start over with a new map until you like it. And you definitely need a lot of quarries, or conquer those wonders later.

Lol tell me about it. I usually reload maps at least 20 times. I like to start with a money resouce/food resource and some prospects for future in the beginning city space

[Siontific]

Originally posted by Johnny 5:

Yes I was aware that Egypt and Kush start with this and the advantage, I play with the difficulty and rules that there is no advantage difficulty wise. so I am always surprised to see people like Rome or Hittites rush wonders

So I just dropped to this difficulty and started the Pyramids on turn 11.

Don't forget that Greece starts with stone boost in their deck so you can get an extra 200 stone in the first 20 turns.

Since you also start with 100 of every resource, and a decent order economy, you should have no trouble getting a wonder out in 15 turns or so if you prioritize it.

- I build 2 quarries to start
- harvested a bunch of money resources while exploring
- got stone boost
- sold 260 wood
- built the pyramids

Looks like I was the first person in this game to do it, too. With 450 civics in the bank, I just keep spamming quarries, chopping the woods around me, and I began the Necropolis on turn 23.

If I kept going I'm sure I'd get like 3 or 4 more.

I was assuming you were asking how to get wonders; not how to get EVERY wonder; the computer will beat you to a couple of them but the answer is to spam quarries and purchase stone. You can increase your income and purchasing power by harvesting and chopping wood. But of course plenty of events will also dump gold and resources on you.

I suppose one tip if you're really hankering for a wonder specifically; purchase stone every single turn.

Since the computer will make it's own purchases and sales on its turn and stone is typically a hot commodity, your current turn will usually always be the cheapest it will be in any given moment.

Buying every turn converts gold to stone at the best rate, and has the added benefit of raising the price for the computer.

[krabdr]

Originally posted by Ax4711:

Hit ESC and start over with a new map until you like it. And you definitely need a lot of quarries, or conquer those wonders later.

This. You have to have a map with good stone, preferably marble or good mountain hexes, but at least 5-8 good hexes available for quarries including those in your 2nd city. Don't build any other structures unless you have to build a shrine to get to more stone. Use your scout to find huts. A few of these can give stone rewards which allow you a more rapid wonder development.

Some cultures you will not beat. Egypt for weak cultures and Greece for developing cultures.

Best map starts have good hexes for quarries and good resources for rapid growth (wheat, fish, sorgum, deer).

Having the "Landowners" archetype helps a lot, too.

[Johnny 5]

All good advice. I managed to do a few starts and get some developing era wonders without crashing my economy so bad. That said I'm not entirely sure they are worth it early game, a lot of the bonuses are civics, which as Pericles you don't really need and victory points which I would prefer to worry about later than putting a target on my back from day one.

The oracle for example. An extra card in the draw for techs? A bit situational no. ?