Tutorial giving advantages

[Marginal0]

I kept the tutorial up just in case I missed anything, but I notice the player gains an unfair advantage from not having to pay to install a first governor, for instance, or an ambassador. Kind of feels off, no?

[kory]

Its a small benefit, but a real one. Is there a problem with the tutorial game being a bit easier for the player?

[Siontific]

It's training wheels mode, so of course it has "unfair" advantages. Same as the lowest difficulties of the game giving "unfair" advantages to the player.

It's not unfair, it's in the ruleset - if you're in learning mode, you get learning stuff. When you stop playing in learning mode, you stop getting learning stuff.

The game can be hard to get into, I don't think there's anything wrong with helping players by giving them a boost.

[Dale Kent]

There's a few ways used in the game to help new players learn the ropes:

1. Hand-held: the scripted Learn To Play tutorials.
2. Guided: the Learning By Playing tutorials start with a curated save file with tutorial events and explanations, in increasing difficulty to help the player up the first few rungs of the ladder.
3. Reminder: with "tutorials events" turned on, the game will remind the player of different mechanics at relevant times of the game. For instance when you first unlock the Ambassador, the game will remind you with an Ambassador event.

When you're ready, turn off the "tutorial events" in options to play unassisted.

[Marginal0]

Originally posted by kory:

Its a small benefit, but a real one. Is there a problem with the tutorial game being a bit easier for the player?

Of course not, but I was just looking for the assistance minus the boost. It's hard to try and figure out where you're helped through advantage or where it just helps with a decision and gives notifications.

[easytarget]

The only impression I'm left with from this thread is you don't have the slightest grasp on what a tutorial is.

[Elegant Caveman]

Originally posted by Marginal0:

Originally posted by kory:

Its a small benefit, but a real one. Is there a problem with the tutorial game being a bit easier for the player?

Of course not, but I was just looking for the assistance minus the boost. It's hard to try and figure out where you're helped through advantage or where it just helps with a decision and gives notifications.

From what I've seen (both in this game and others; tutorials in general), when you get something extra due to a tutorial, it's usually mentioned.

Something along the lines of "We've given you extra [resources/units/whatever] for the tutorial". Was this not the case here?

Did the game tell you that you didn't have to pay for the governor and that you normally would, or did it make it look like it was a normal thing and you just figured out it was the tutorial changing things some other way?

[Marginal0]

Originally posted by easytarget:

The only impression I'm left with from this thread is you don't have the slightest grasp on what a tutorial is.

A tutorial is designed to "tutor" you. To learn you the game and instruct you in its mechanics and core features. Very interested to know what fantasy definion you are giving it, but I'll tell you right now that its purpose is not to help you beat the AI. That's what "easy mode" is for. A tutorial isn't for people who have difficulties applying the mechanics and "suck" at the game. Well... it could be, but for that you need advanced tutorials which - also - shouldn't just spawn resources out of nowhere. And very few games provide these.

It does a good job here, but they were better off giving you 1000 civics first instead of gradually giving you free stuff. It does mention it's "free", but it doesn't help players. Worse: it might give them the idea that they suck on their own, but in reality they are doing an ok job but lack the extra civics that you get. The practical problem is that - if the player spends all of the civics - you can't show him, so I get why.

The game is quite complex. My sole purpose with this thread is that there should just be "reminders" on its own. The way it is now it's tutoring combined with scaffolding, and the latter should remain bound to the difficulty level.

But I probably make a bigger issue of it than it is. Just a minor gripe, really. After my third game, I want to turn it off now, but I'm sure I'll completely forget some mechanics in the next game, which is fine, but a pity. Leaving it on feels like cheating.

[Siontific]

I think the issue is if you get a prompt to assign a governor, for example, you go "Oh right, I forgot about that. Oh crap, I don't have the orders yet, next turn... Oh wait, I won't have the orders for 4 turns. Okay I'll do it then"

Then you immediately forget and 12 turns later you enter the same cycle again because you go "♥♥♥♥, I forgot to assign a governor still" and yet last turn you adopted your first law so you have no civics again.

I think the prompts and the assist are mostly there to get you thinking about things consistently until the training wheels come off. Just like how some board game tutorials have a dry run laid out in their manual where they'll even deal out specific cards or pieces to players as part of a "first game setup" - so you can get your bearings. That doesn't mean you're going to start every game with X, Y, or Z -- but you get it in the tutorial to familiarize yourself with the concepts without anything preventing you from engaging with them.

[Dale Kent]

Originally posted by Marginal0:

The game is quite complex. My sole purpose with this thread is that there should just be "reminders" on its own. The way it is now it's tutoring combined with scaffolding, and the latter should remain bound to the difficulty level.

As it is, there is between 10-20 events in total that are tutorial events (or mechanics reminders), that give you something for "free".

There are now a total of 5049 events in the game. 10-20 "freebies" doesn't really seem a lot to me.

Edit to add: that total of 5049 doesn't include the Greek and Egypt campaigns, Learn to Play, Learning by Playing, nor the Barbarian Horde events. That's just base game events.

[Marginal0]

Originally posted by Feigro:

until the training wheels come off.

Yes, but that is precisely my point: training wheels aren't a tutorial. It's scaffolding. The equivalent of a tutorial for "biking" would be someone coaching you from a short distance.

10-20 events is probably correct, but that makes about 1500 civics, which seems like a big deal to me. You will definitely feel that when you turn the mode off the first time.

[Lucky_Star_Fan]

The player is able to set many things before starting the game, including difficulty level. It's up to the player to set the difficulty they prefer, so this is a non-issue.