What is your favorite leader for Hatti? (spoilers)

[tiamats4esgares]

Unlike some of the other nations, none of the leaders for Hatti actually stand out as super fun and exciting. But what's your favorite? Maybe I'm missing something.

Spoilers will follow for playing with them, of course. I don't mind if you add more spoilers, but try to make them minor if possible.

I'll list from favorite to least favorite.

Suppiluliuma II starts at age 24 with OK stats (2 wisdom and 2 discipline). He starts with a 22 year old wife with good stats (6 charisma and -1 discipline) who can be a governor. He also starts with a 3 year old daughter and 2 year old son. He has a 46 year old mother that can be a governor. Having decent stats of his own and starting with a wife with good stats and 2 heirs that you can train to your liking once they hit 10 years old, he's my favorite I think. But his ability isn't super exciting...all it does is give all units 5 EXP per year if he's the leader, and himself 10 EXP per year.

Hattusili starts with at age 46 with OK stats (2 charisma and 2 discipline). His wife, 43, has medicore stats (4 wisdom and -1 courage) and a bad relationship. He has a 6 year old grandson heir that ends up being pretty good. But that said, he doesn't seem to be set up as well as Suppiluliuma II, and no ability. He also starts with two sons and a daughter that are all excluded from succession and hate him. One of the sons and the daughter can be governors.

I've never played as Pudehepa. Her ability lets her start with Divination and looks like she can do projects in town to give them half an order per turn and boost opinion of Paganism. (Sounds lame.) She starts with mediocre stats (3 charisma) at age 26. She has a 40 year old sickly husband with decent stats (1 charisma, 2 courage, 2 discipline) that can be a general. She also has a 2 year old son. And...another 3 year old boy?

Hantili starts at age 35 with mediocre stats (4 wisdom and -1 courage). He starts with a wife, 32, with also bad stats (3 wisdom) who can be a governor. He starts with two kids, age 18 and 12. So one of them can't be trained at all, and the other can only be trained twice because he starts too old to get a 3rd training in. His daughter can be a general. Her stats are OK, at 1 wisdom and 4 courage, but if you'd trained her yourself they'd be better, so she'll end up worse than Suppiluliuma II's or Hattusili's heirs. Furthermore, she's already married, and and her husband's stats are terrible (-1 wisdom, 4 courage, -2 discipline). I haven't played him all that long. Game wasn't going well so just started a new one. The king's ability is that all towns start with a wall. Woohoo. Not impressed.

Mursili II starts at age 19 with mediocre stats (3 wisdom) and -20 legitimacy. He starts with a 26 year old Court Soldier with +80 relationship that has 3 courage and 2 discipline that can be a governor or general. He also starts with a 23 year old brother that is NOT an heir that can be a general, and a 42 year old exiled mother that hates him. He gets to chose an ambition from the beginning of the game that leads to more ambitions. They seem....quite ambitious, eventually wanting you to take a lot of land and kill a lot of people. I'm not sure if they prevent you from getting other ambitions or are alongside normal ones. Either way, this is my least favorite of the ones I've tried.

So I guess my go-to will just be Suppiluliuma. Am I missing out on something else with another one of the options? Let me know!

[Siontific]

Hattusili and Hantili.

Warlike judge is just a solid setup, hold court will ensure you get all 4 laws online likely before the old goat dies which sets you up for a solid midgame push and his heir is going to be young, you'll get solid family opinion from a burst of early marriages in the dynasty as well.

A judge governor in a traders seat? You have an elder specialist inside of 15 turns Assuming there's any culture resources around. Divination into aristocracy combined with hold court and you have Centralization pretty quickly too for a swift 8 science in the capital combined with the elder. You can fully stock the cap with more specialists before Hattusili kicks it too.

Lastly, warlike has a special event when clearing tribal sites that can spawn a free settler. Not a guarantee but feels great when you get it.


For hantili; the schemer start is simply one of the strongest starting archetypes in the entire game. You have the highest base science and can scout the majority of any medium sized map in 30 turns or less with the spare scout from a riders seat. This will skyrocket your early legitimacy and net you all manner of events and perks from ruins, as well. At higher difficulties where you can rely on foreign nations to have good science, a quick detour to portcullis, of which your heavy chariot bonus card is along the way and it sets you up with an early onager anyway will have these two starting Scouts landing inside the capital of your highest developed opponents and ready to start siphoning science from them for the rest of the game as early as turn 50.

For pudehepa - starting with the addition of divination is an amazing game boost to the hittites since this allows you access to science specialists without determining away from something like a navigation or chariot beeline. Pretty solid here, too.

Suppi II is probably my lowest rated pick. For the most part I just play hattusili since a judge opener is great for early development and getting laws online.

It's less about actively being able to acquire all 4 laws in Hattusilis lifetime but rather that he'll likely leave you with the stockpile of civics to adopt them later. Certainly enough to get close.

[tiamats4esgares]

Originally posted by Feigro:

Hattusili and Hantili.

Warlike judge is just a solid setup, hold court will ensure you get all 4 laws online likely before the old goat dies which sets you up for a solid midgame push and his heir is going to be young, you'll get solid family opinion from a burst of early marriages in the dynasty as well.

A judge governor in a traders seat? You have an elder specialist inside of 15 turns Assuming there's any culture resources around. Divination into aristocracy combined with hold court and you have Centralization pretty quickly too for a swift 8 science in the capital combined with the elder. You can fully stock the cap with more specialists before Hattusili kicks it too.

Lastly, warlike has a special event when clearing tribal sites that can spawn a free settler. Not a guarantee but feels great when you get it.


For hantili; the schemer start is simply one of the strongest starting archetypes in the entire game. You have the highest base science and can scout the majority of any medium sized map in 30 turns or less with the spare scout from a riders seat. This will skyrocket your early legitimacy and net you all manner of events and perks from ruins, as well. At higher difficulties where you can rely on foreign nations to have good science, a quick detour to portcullis, of which your heavy chariot bonus card is along the way and it sets you up with an early onager anyway will have these two starting Scouts landing inside the capital of your highest developed opponents and ready to start siphoning science from them for the rest of the game as early as turn 50.

For pudehepa - starting with the addition of divination is an amazing game boost to the hittites since this allows you access to science specialists without determining away from something like a navigation or chariot beeline. Pretty solid here, too.

Suppi II is probably my lowest rated pick. For the most part I just play hattusili since a judge opener is great for early development and getting laws online.

It's less about actively being able to acquire all 4 laws in Hattusilis lifetime but rather that he'll likely leave you with the stockpile of civics to adopt them later. Certainly enough to get close.

Sorry to ask a dumb question, what do you mean "all 4 laws" that you keep saying?

[jotwebe]

4 laws will let you buy the second tier of fortress (the one after garrison) which in turn will let you recruit your unique units. As discussed elsewhere, unique units early in the game are very powerful.

[tiamats4esgares]

Originally posted by jotwebe:

4 laws will let you buy the second tier of fortress (the one after garrison) which in turn will let you recruit your unique units. As discussed elsewhere, unique units early in the game are very powerful.

Ah, thanks for that info.

[Siontific]

Your first tier of unique unit is unlocked with 4 laws, developing culture and Stronghold in a city. Hitting this threshold early will allow you access to unique strength 6 early, independent of any other military research. So something like labor force, navigation, aristocrac, and Rhetoric would allow you to build Heavy chariots (in the case of the hittites)

Or you could grab labor force and then beeline sovereignty for 3 laws and the civics boost, allowing you to do the same.

If you consider those technologies and their locations, this means the only other unit you could build wht that setup would be a strength 4 warrior off of ironworking.

So you have access 6th strength units before you even have access to to the usual roster of strength 5 units (axes, spears, archers).

This doesn't mean ignore them, or not grab military drill. Buts a way to develop yourself a strong bedrock of laws (something like serfdom, freedom, centralization, and exploration form a solid foundation to enhance your empire) while still being able to field a powerful military unit.

Civics is usually the biggest bottleneck for these plays, which is why the boost off of sovereignty is so strong. But what a judge allows you to do is increase your early civics generation by quite bit. Which means you'll be able to enact laws faster.

The next upgrade of unique units comes online with 7 laws, a strong cultured city, with a citadel. This is also typically achievable on a faster timescale than regular strength 8 units. So getting a head start on the adoption of laws can lead to big power spikes.