Tall vs Wide

[arjensmit79]

In civ, at least the latest versions of it, it was quite viable to go "tall" meaning, just 5 cities or so.

Now i'm sure people can beat this game while limiting themselves to a low number of cities, but in game it doesn't seem viable in the way that this is competitive with getting as many cities as you can ?

I just tried one of the practice games with just 3 cities and trying to grow them big and fast, but it seems i'm rather limited by civics. Looking at where those come from, the base 8 per city seems and the bonus from the governor's charisma seems like the most important sources.

Am i right i should just try and grab as many cities as i can ?
Do you build extra scouts just to claim spots before the AI claims them with a unit ?

[dshorwich]

What difficulty level are you playing at? That makes a big difference in how quickly you can safely expand. On higher difficulty levels, if you overexpand early you won't have enough military to defend your holdings when tribal raids start.

[Bishi]

You can also overdevelop cities with specialists, improvements, and culture too fast if you don't have the economy to support it as well. Everything is really interconnected in this game and it's hard to say which of the 4 main stats are worth min-maxing, they all are important. You have to pace yourself and think things through. As long as you have a unit safely sitting on a site, you don't need to necessarily settle it asap.

As for getting civics you should look early also for shrines that might produce them and look carefully at event rewards. A lot of them give the option of 10+ months of civics vs 2 months of science, and depending on the situation; i.e, needing to handle your court/families, build an early wonder, or enact a law, civics can be the stronger reward.

Also, most importantly, if you are running city projects or are producing specialists, all of a city's civics go to that while they produce them.

Edit: forgot a word

[arjensmit79]

Thanx, im just starting out and trying to understand the game and its economy on the easy learning map. I am sure i would beat it if i tried till the end, but i am in the process or learning everything i can, not so much beating the game at this point. I do understand things are different at higher difficulty levels. Its just that my first game got kinda boring to micro manage 7 cities, so after abandoning that, i figured i'd do a 3 city game with the intention of building as many wonders as i can and winning by making these 3 cities the greatest marvels of science and culture. It didn't feel right though. Lots of workers, lots of specialists, oh and surely lots of science and culture, but not enough civics to enact any laws.

[Bishi]

Well, I'll say it again in case you missed it. Producing specialists sucks up all of the city's civic production while it is making them. Wonders also have a civic fee. Intercessions and foreign diplomacy can also cost civics.

Without knowing what families you have access to, it's hard to give advice for your tall empire. I would think at the very least you should choose Statesmen if you have access to them and/or try to get to courthouses in the tech tree.

[yuzhonglu]

Most of civics come from legal code law which provides +10 civics per law.

[Rastapopoulos]

If you really pref to play Tall, you can reduce city density site in game option. But assuming you are on standard setting, my best advice is to rush colony OR have owner family as capital OR play with a new babylonian leader who can buy tiles with military point (it works amazing). The strat is to circle city site by buying all adjacencies tiles, which is very easy in standard settings. So you deny city site for your opponent, you take 1 VP, and have a massive border expansion, in place of a new city, a "minor city" will emerge, which consists of a tier3 hamlet that gives +40 gold and 1 discontent. As a player, you never want to forget VP, so if you dont have many city, you need a really strong culture to spam legendary I, II, III etc.. Greece is really good for that. About your civics point issue, you should play with high charisma leader / civics gifted nation (like Carthago or Hatti), Statesman familiy is a must too. But my favorite choice to play tall is to go for Ptolemee with greece, very nice for it.

Another advantage to play tall that families are more more more easiest to content, while your few cities will arrive much more quickly in positive happiness and that means more science and gold, and almost no rebellion (your luxuries ressources will be less spreaded in your realm like when playing wide, same for your chancellor actions).
To conclude, playing TALL is more about the scientific/culture victory on CIV. Since you will spam legendary and will be able to produce massivce science income too, which mean VP ultimately (when you reach the end of the tech tree). That said, last time I played TALL with Rome in a more military based plan, and that was awesome too with Marius (-30% cost for infantery with a new project), Rome start with hamlet turn1 so it can both help to scrounge tiles till the next city site and increase your gold income too buy more tiles.

note; im only playing in "The Great" difficulty with hard settings (strong tribal power, developped IA etc..) Sometimes im losing (IA is really good) but I have good results so I can say playing TALL is definitely VIABLE. Ofc playing wide can be strong too!

[Salty Biscuit]

One exception to Specialists/Projects using all the city's Civics is the Council project, which produces some civics, training and money, and only takes one turn. It's useful for those periodic shortages, or when you just want to wait a turn or two for a Citizen to be available for a much-needed Specialist, rather than wait 5 turns to finish a Project or Military unit.

[arjensmit79]

Thanx all. Interesting info here that i will have to study deeper.

[mk11]

I'ld recommend playing a one-city-challenge with a builder leader at 1 or 2 difficulties lower than your norm. This was eye-opening to me in understanding how playing tall works.

[Rastapopoulos]

erratum: a minor city gives 25 gold + 25 potential if connected to your trade network. And Its +2 discontent and 2 VP!