Traits

[Shinoskay]

So. im giving this game a real try.... noticed that traits arent really genetically inherited but some can get a higher probability by being taught down (like intelligent).

however, I cant find which traits can be passed like this (and the in game encyclopedia is dreadfully bad at explaining.

Anyone able to list which traits can be passed down?

[Conquistador_514]

Mystery....... some stuff even the devs don't know from what I've seen, there is a certain mythology involved in this game, that even RNG cannot explain.

[Mohawk_Solver]

Anything that is a specific probability should be in the tooltips.

Kids getting traits from their parents, that's part of the event system, which is quite heavily randomized and not really meant to be something you plan for. The game has in excess of 3500 events, so there are many things that happen via events, including things that cannot happen normally.

There are 46 events that can trigger for children to inherit a trait, but then those events don't necessarily grant the same trait either, they can grant the same trait or one of two others. So just through this event class, there are 138 possible outcomes but they are not guaranteed to occur at all, or they could be superseded by some other event happening to the kid.

[Shinoskay]

Originally posted by Mohawk_Solver:

Anything that is a specific probability should be in the tooltips.

Kids getting traits from their parents, that's part of the event system, which is quite heavily randomized and not really meant to be something you plan for. The game has in excess of 3500 events, so there are many things that happen via events, including things that cannot happen normally.

There are 46 events that can trigger for children to inherit a trait, but then those events don't necessarily grant the same trait either, they can grant the same trait or one of two others. So just through this event class, there are 138 possible outcomes but they are not guaranteed to occur at all, or they could be superseded by some other event happening to the kid.

I understand, but some events require specific triggers... I have a kid get intelligent SPECIFICALLY because their parent had intelligent. id like to know how many traots have triggers like that.... because the tool tips do not help me understand this any further.

[Mohawk_Solver]

Yes, so what happened there is that the event triggered off Intelligent, and then the kid also rolled Intelligent off it, which was a 1/3 probability for the event. There's 46 such events as I mentioned, so 46 different traits that can trigger an inheritance event. Generally, the traits that sound like personality traits (Intelligent, Affable, Cunning, Cruel, Loyal) can trigger such events, but not traits that sound like jobs or learned skills (Delver, Naturalist, Ranger).

[Shinoskay]

it would help if the tool tips (or the in game encyclopedia) explained that.

[Mohawk_Solver]

I understand what you mean but that's not a practical possibility. Those events aren't special in any way. There's the possibility of a Brave royal leading to a Brave child through events. But there's also an event where a Brave leader can become Foolish, an event where a Brave family head leads to the leader becoming Brave, and more. You get the idea.

If the encyclopedia showed the possible event consequences of traits, then some traits would end up with a list of a couple hundred items, which isn't readable and which would look a lot like "this can lead to just about anything".

The game's approach then is to always show any immediate effects, while we also say for concepts like traits that they can lead to many different situations via events.

[Shinoskay]

Originally posted by Mohawk_Solver:

I understand what you mean but that's not a practical possibility. Those events aren't special in any way. There's the possibility of a Brave royal leading to a Brave child through events. But there's also an event where a Brave leader can become Foolish, an event where a Brave family head leads to the leader becoming Brave, and more. You get the idea.

If the encyclopedia showed the possible event consequences of traits, then some traits would end up with a list of a couple hundred items, which isn't readable and which would look a lot like "this can lead to just about anything".

The game's approach then is to always show any immediate effects, while we also say for concepts like traits that they can lead to many different situations via events.

how is it not practical?

that right there is exactly why I was trying to check.
it may be logical to you, but to some a naturalist is a personality thing.

if the tool tip said what traits had the x% chance to generate on their own AND has x% chance to pass from parent then I could better decide what parents to prioritize in geneology like play style. ... id understand which traits have more event chances.... etc etc.

[Mohawk_Solver]

Sure, but that's not how the game's events work. You're thinking more like Crusader Kings mechanics, where a trait might have an x% chance to be inherited. Old World events don't work like that. The pool of eligible events constantly changes due to stuff happening in-game, the probability of most events is shifting.

When there's a fixed probability, the game will tell you. That's mainly for the choice of what your children study (the tooltips say which archetypes it can lead to), and for a few other events that will say things like "50% chance to become Cursed". Most of the time it's not as specific as that.

Trait inheritance events belong to that majority category of being hard to predict. What I think you imagine is a system where Intelligent has a 10% chance of being inherited. But there is no such single probability. Depending on what's happening in the game, it could be that the first child has X% to inherit Intelligent and the second child has Y%. It could be upset completely by something happening to the parent, maybe the parent goes to prison and that blocks the inheritance event. Any percentage chance we could calculate would be misleading because, even if perfectly calculated for the current turn, it would be changing the next turn.

I hope that explains the system a bit better.

[Shinoskay]

no, im not the one comparing events to ck events. I'm saying if theres a chance for one to gain a trait like intelligent naturally and then theres also a chance to gain it from a parent having it then you can calculate that if you know about it.

same with things like naturalist.

not all of them are going to make sense though, so the info in the tool tip would help one calculate probability.

[jotwebe]

Originally posted by Shinoskay:

no, im not the one comparing events to ck events. I'm saying if theres a chance for one to gain a trait like intelligent naturally and then theres also a chance to gain it from a parent having it then you can calculate that if you know about it.

What 76561199215865008 is saying is that no, you can't, because they don't know how likely each of those events are. IIRC the event where you get intelligent of your parent can only happen if both heir and parent are alive, and the number of turns that is the case depends on a lot of factors. At what age did the parent marry, are they a general in a war (and so more likely to die), are they going to get assassinated.

Those probabilities would depend on map size, map script, playstyle.

[Shinoskay]

Originally posted by jotwebe:

Originally posted by Shinoskay:

no, im not the one comparing events to ck events. I'm saying if theres a chance for one to gain a trait like intelligent naturally and then theres also a chance to gain it from a parent having it then you can calculate that if you know about it.

What 76561199215865008 is saying is that no, you can't, because they don't know how likely each of those events are. IIRC the event where you get intelligent of your parent can only happen if both heir and parent are alive, and the number of turns that is the case depends on a lot of factors. At what age did the parent marry, are they a general in a war (and so more likely to die), are they going to get assassinated.

Those probabilities would depend on map size, map script, playstyle.

the event said just one parent triggered it. all it needs is 'can be triggered by a parent'.
you guys are over-complicating it.

[Mohawk_Solver]

Suppose you have a child with your spouse, the spouse is only Intelligent, no other traits. In a vacuum now, the first year of the child's education has a 5% chance of inheritance being triggered from Intelligent, and thus a 1.6% chance of inheriting Intelligent (random roll between three traits).

But that doesn't mean there's a 1.6% chance of inheriting Intelligent. What if the spouse is Intelligent and Greedy? The chance of the "inherit from Intelligent" event is now ~4.87% instead of 5%, so getting Intelligent is slightly less likely. The spouse could also be sick, in which case the 5% chance decreases to 4%.

If you have a second child with the same spouse, the probabilities change again the moment that second child becomes a student.

Just with a couple variables like that, there's no number to show on the trait that would accurately convey the probability. The actual in-game situation always has more variables. Another nation could found a religion, which affects the probability of an event chain where your spouse leaves the nation, which affects the probability of inheritance events. For one character, like a royal child, the probability of a specific event is affected by up to a few hundred variables that change every turn.

[Shinoskay]

Originally posted by Mohawk_Solver:

Suppose you have a child with your spouse, the spouse is only Intelligent, no other traits. In a vacuum now, the first year of the child's education has a 5% chance of inheritance being triggered from Intelligent, and thus a 1.6% chance of inheriting Intelligent (random roll between three traits).

But that doesn't mean there's a 1.6% chance of inheriting Intelligent. What if the spouse is Intelligent and Greedy? The chance of the "inherit from Intelligent" event is now ~4.87% instead of 5%, so getting Intelligent is slightly less likely. The spouse could also be sick, in which case the 5% chance decreases to 4%.

If you have a second child with the same spouse, the probabilities change again the moment that second child becomes a student.

Just with a couple variables like that, there's no number to show on the trait that would accurately convey the probability. The actual in-game situation always has more variables. Another nation could found a religion, which affects the probability of an event chain where your spouse leaves the nation, which affects the probability of inheritance events. For one character, like a royal child, the probability of a specific event is affected by up to a few hundred variables that change every turn.

you are still over complicating it, all thats relevant is that there exists the inhereting roll.

in addition to the standard overall random chance to get the trait.

if I know traits can be 'inherited', such as greedy, I could pair intelligent with intelligent and avoid greedy.
Or I can decide theres enough intelligent people in my court that it will naturally populate amongs my courteirs and so instead I start prioritizing something else (say strong?) to slowly weed out bad traits and encourage choice traits.

the actual percentage doesnt matter.

Just which traits can be passed along like that.

[Mohawk_Solver]

What I don't understand is why those specific events would warrant specific treatment by explicitly showing they're possible. These events are not common enough that you'd ever be able to exert much control over your children's traits. In addition to these parent inheritance events, there are other traits they can acquire from studying in general, or from your courtiers.

This is why archetypes are separated from other traits. You can somewhat control what archetypes you get. Not regular traits. With those, the expectation is that they are outside your control and there's no planning you can do to significantly affect the probability of getting or avoiding some trait. The inheritance events aren't special, those traits aren't special either. Children will not acquire e.g. Naturalist through those events, but they're just as likely to acquire Naturalist through a different event as they are to acquire something from an inheritance event.

If you're metagaming with planning, there are specific events and choices that matter more anyway. For example "The Shoemaker" event is fairly common for a Philosophy student and gives a 25% chance at Righteous, If you want Righteous, you're more likely to get it by assigning Philosophy and hoping for Shoemaker than by trying to arrange inheritance.

[blackknight1112]

well not realy a problem with character traits though it could be a litle of both just in beging what a indvidual is born with also with what is though events and taught the main problem is always u will get a doom trait if your character isnt with any and there no heir by 30 something will instnalty a faimly member be with someone then the game itll just try koing u just to make sure theres heirs from younger how large your land is how many characters can be there also i havent plaeyd for along time snce back then you couldnt win withouth going agaisnt ally i think i came back to game it rnadomly gave achments i never got i never make other religons but Christianity and map size and tehre setting u can go though alot of game and there well u know and wish the thing that was aded found religon wtih the town would let u pick and bypass all the other stuff and able to have the religon you want i was able back then to u know have evyerone with it before well u know and had to restart alot to get it to have eveyroen go with well u know they say u can write your own story but its really not ha u know they should let u pick what religon u are to on make and then found it with i mean u know you shoudlnt want other stuff there i mean u want to spread the one u believe and waiting for them to u know before you can get everyone Christian is u know the game is pretty much limited to what u can do though they say u can write what happens i mean u know they also have things increasing stuff that actauly isnt what that is and it be opposite of what it is like you shoudl be able to pick your religon and a character trait starting the game and tryign to spread it they did mess up crusader kings alot but you could have religon you wanted by making it even though they had game start strangely and stuff hi all i hope everyoen in the world doing ok and everything had a good weekend and has a good week and everything God bless