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You saying that Jason Yes-men (if any even exist) are sadistic (takes pleasure from others pain) somehow?
I could at least sort of understand if you were going for masochistic(takes pleasure from your own pain) lovers instead. Was that what you were going for?
"Sadist updates"
"Sadistic lovers who follow him"
tbh unless we have community support/contributions, since its open source and that, we cant expect jason to make a perfect game obv without trial and error.
not saying i defend jason 100%, some designs ideas i think are really obviously bad, but hey were not in control.
imo, instead of saying hey i want x to be in game, maybe code it yourself and show jason. if itll cost jason no money and time wise he'd be a lot more lenient to adding it.
even if jason ignores all our contributions but we have a team of atelast 3 people or more, could easily progress potentially faster and in a better direction to release a similar style game. *cough*
instead of winging about what we could have, spend that time on creating them.
The game is open source and many players have already made different versions of the game, and some of which are more popular than the native client. For years people have supplied Jason with great ideas that would make the game more fun and popular, but he's made it clear many times that he doesn't think his fans are intelligent enough to know what's best for his game.
He doesn't want to make a fun game, he wants to make a work of art, and that's the fundamental problem. Gamers don't care to spend $20 for a work of art, they want a fun game.
Been there, done that. Look at the modded versions that have a zoom function, something that should be a no brainer. The clunky native UI needs the ability to zoom out, the modded versions easily do this, but Jason refuses to implement it. He's not going to use an obviously simple and greatly needed idea.
I defended Jason at first until he started communicating with his fans. I've never met such an unprofessional developer before (although I have met ones just as stubborn when it comes to accepting outside ideas). The problems with the development of this game go far beyond just game related.
We've done that, and in fact I started development of my own game because I got tired of trying to convince Jason to make the changes we wanted (btw it's expected to drop on Steam this summer, and already has a ton more features than OHOL, different game style though but similar foundation). You could show Jason the greatest idea ever and he likely won't code it into his game unless he's convinced he came up with the idea first.
That's my current plan. I really dislike the idea of advertising it here but if you're curious, toss me a friend request and I'll link you to the steam store page.
That's our only option at this point, and so now it's going to be a reality. I've only been working on it in my free time the past 8 months, but it's already ahead of OHOL in terms of everything except item counts (It already has AI NPC villagers that can build a village from scratch automatically, it has a combat system with stats and health, a birthing system where you get pregnant first, no weird graphical glitches every few seconds that makes the screen shake, ability to host multiplayer from the client, etc). Oh I'm also only charging $5 for it, so pretty soon OHOL will likely fade away. I gave Jason 6 months to show that he would work with his fans, but unfortunately this had to happen. Development of my game will also be fan driven, as I'll be making online polls to help drive the direction of development post-release.
I’m all for modded clients. I’ve used one exclusively this past year, but if you’re gonna make a claim like “some are even more popular than the native client” you better bring evidence. I saw a thread a while back providing stats for how many use modded clients and the default clients. While modded clients were certainly popular, they didn’t beat the default client in terms of use.
Also I’ve played your game, and I would advise you to stop bragging about how much better it is than Ohol until you have results to show for it. As it stands it can barely be called a tech demo. The art needs to be completely overhauled, because it just looks it was made using MS Paint. The UI is worse than Ohol, and because of the bad art it’s incredibly difficult what object is what. It will need a bunch of work done if it’s to be completed in the Summer of this year.
Don’t like me criticizing your unfinished game? Then stop bragging about how good it is on the forums, until you get results to back it up.
You can compare the Steamcharts stats to the server stats and see that there are times when more than 50% of the users aren't using Steam. Now that could mean that they're also using a non-steam version of the native client, but if you ask anyone who's used the native client vs any modded client, almost nobody prefers the native client (I've never met a single person that prefers it).
I'd bet my life that if you took an online poll asking players that have tried both versions which they prefer, it would be overwhelmingly on the side of the modded clients. I mean they're basically the same clients only with more features, so it's just better, period.
When did you last play it? I gave you a CD Key about 6 months ago and a LOT has changed since then (It really was just a tech demo at that point). At that time, pretty much all you could do is walk around and pick up rocks. It actually has more functionality and polish than OHOL in it's current state, and the only thing it lacks by comparison is the amount of items (which is the easy part to add later on).
The art imo is better looking than OHOL already, but a complete art overhaul is intended after release. There are also plenty of games with pixel-style art so if it's an issue for you, it won't be for many others. Look at games like Forager, StarDew Valley, etc. All have lower quality graphics and are doing just fine.
Absolutely not lol. I'd take an online poll for that as well. The UI has an informational panel, it has the ability to increase the screen size (so that you can see more tiles), it has non-stretched images that don't look pixelated, the entire bottom of the screen isn't taken up by an unnecessarily large food bar, there are popup screens activated via hotkeys such as a character menu, a town menu, etc. You're just straight up wrong on this one.
There will be indicators that tell you exactly what item you're holding, standing on, etc, and it's already on par with OHOL (being able to figure out what a gooseberry seed is, let alone visibly seeing it is a great example). The graphics are fine, and the other players I have testing the game have no issue with it.
I'm all for critique and encourage it, but you're just wrong on this and most would agree with me. The game in it's current state has a fleshed out combat system (where held items effect damage, there's a health pool so you don't die in one hit, etc), there's a birthing system (where you get to choose whether or not you give birth to a player instead of having some troll appear), You can host your own multiplayer games from the client (instead of being forced to change file settings or use the official servers), you can play single player and have AI NPC players work the village with you, etc. Not to mention it's still in development, and will be expanded upon even after release (I have things such as magic portals to alternate dimensions planned post-release). So any existing problems today, will likely be worked out not long from now.
So far the only legitimate complaint you have is that the graphics aren't AAA level, and it doesn't even matter considering they're still better looking in execution than OHOL's graphics (and there will be a full art overhaul someday).
Btw also releasing the game for $5, not $20.
I agree that modded clients are just straight up better than the regular clients since it gives more info. But better functionality doesn't equal better popularity, and you've still failed to bring up anything concrete to back up your claim. You say that the Steam charts prove it and then contradict yourself in the next sentence saying that it doesn't account for mod users using the default client off Steam. Also there's a way to track Steam stats for Ohol, so not all people in the Steam charts necessarily use the default client. The Steam charts prove nothing when it comes to mod users.
Here I'll give you actual stats on this. Check this thread out.
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8213
76 % unique players use the regular client. Sounds like a minority.
I've tried it today and it looks exactly the same as when I first tried it when you gave me the key. Only difference I can tell is a few more objects littered around you can interact with.
Are you high?
Anyone who thinks this (this pic was taken when I wrote this reply btw):
https://imgur.com/GrHSp7T
Looks better than this:
https://imgur.com/lgissG1
Need to get their eyes checked. You mention Forager and Stardew Valley, but the difference is that they have actual decent looking pixel-art. Your art-style looks like it was thrown together in MS Paint.
I can ask people on the official forums if they think your game's art is better than Ohol since you are so confident.
I've seen none of the features you've advertised here. If they're there they are incredibly hard to miss.
Yea you should work on that I agree.
Not seen any of these features in-game (saw NPC's on a ss in community hub), since I can't seem to connect to the main server (if anyone is even playing regularly). And how do you get NPC's to spawn, none of this is explained in-game.
And it's true that your art isnt AAA level, heck it's not even indie level, it's MS Paint level. I was fine with before btw, because I knew it was placeholder art, but you bragging about how the current art is better than Ohol is just not true.
Good
How can you say better functionality doesn't equal better popularity? Do you have any examples of this in reality? Every product on the market I'm aware of that gains value in it's functionality gets more popular than it was before, and obviously, it's better than it was before.
I never said it proves anything, but given the fact that a ton of players complain about the native UI, and everyone I've known who's tried a modded client prefers it, and it straight up is the same thing with more features, any reasonable person could easily assume that the modded version would be more popular. If every player had the option when launching the game to choose between two versions of the game, I'd wager virtually nobody would play the native client. And why would they?
Yeah I'm not able to "prove" anything, but it's evidence that supports my theory. And if you were a betting man, you'd be on my side of this argument. You'd be crazy to assume more people that have tried the modded client prefer the native client.
And of those players, how many are even aware that a modded client exists? I didn't know about one until months into the game, and then just recently learned there's more than one (Haven't even tried hetuw yet). The fact that only 76% of players were using the native client when modded clients aren't advertised in the main game is astounding. That shows that 24% of those players took the time to find and install a modded client just to play this game. That's not a red flag to you that the native client has flaws?
Right, because there's no tutorial and you don't know how to use any of the functionality. If for example you were to type the message "Abra Village", a village of people will start spawning and build the village for you. If you press C or V or P it would open up menus to check stats, make decisions, etc. If you were to say "Abra Duel" it would create two people that start fighting each other. There are dozens of things in the game that you wouldn't know about because it's still in development. There's animals in the game that you probably didn't notice (you can build squirrel traps and capture squirrels), you probably didn't realize that farming was a thing (you can build baskets to move around dirt, create farms and plant seeds that grow), you also probably didn't realize that there are different biomes (desert and snow biomes), you probably didn't realize that you can get pregnant and give birth to NPCs (Abra Baby if you wanna try, and then "I name you ___" to give birth). You probably didn't realize that during the night cycles, your village gets attacked by rats. I could go on and on. The game itself is still in development and so hitting "Singleplayer" doesn't automatically make the game fun yet.
Turning the game on, looking around for a few seconds and closing it doesn't tell me that you've actually tried the game.
It looks better to me and the people I've asked to make comparisons, albeit not anything much better. They're both low quality graphics with low quality style images. The only major differences are that I don't use NEARLY as many black lines all over my assets. Jason went to town with the ball-point pen it seems. It feels like everything is bleeding into everything else, which is why no other games use that style.
On top of that, all art is getting overhauled. I'm not an artist and these are just placeholder graphics for now.
https://images.gog-statics.com/b60e930d668bd4ef9926a8aa79fb2b1ab1619681da6e573ccb1631aa6d8c0f12_product_card_v2_mobile_slider_639.jpg
Compare the character in that image to the one in mine or OHOL. It's way inferior in terms of detail and even feel. It's completely pixelated. Now at the same time, these assets aren't placeholders and so you'll see more effort into the extras (for example you can see individual leaves in the trees, whereas I've just made a green blob to save time as the art is getting replaced anyway). The style itself however (pixel art) isn't a problem.
Challenge accepted. I'd be more than happy to start a poll.
Because the game is in development. I test one thing at a time and avoid having the other stuff clutter things up. In order to access the different features from the singleplayer mode atm, you need to know how to activate them. Also, I haven't updated a version to Steam in a while so that one is pretty old.
I turned off the main server for now since it was being hosted locally and interrupting my internet usage when more than 8 people got on. Once things are more polished I'll turn it back on.
A lot of indie games use this type of art. It's not amazing but it gets the job done especially as a placeholder. Most people won't have a problem with it.
We have been down this rabbit hole once before and I have no intention of exploring that any further. You never provided any evidence to support that modded client's are more popular, as in more people use it, but from what I'm getting here you're using a different definition. All you provided was conjecture.
This right here makes me suspect that we are using different definitions when it comes to word "popular". You seem to be using "popular" in the sense that it appeals to more people (people think it's better), rather than how many use a thing. If you use that definition then I agree with you, since I also think that modded clients are by far the better experience. Especially with all the cluttered info in the game now. And as you mentioned I doubt many would say that using the default client is a better experience.
I will concede most of this, since there's currently no hints to how to access this content, which is understandable considering it's still not finished. I have been trying it for more than just a few seconds thank you very much. Things that made sense like farming, firepits, carrying water, etc. I've tried out. I didn't know there were hotkeys for most of this stuff, but I'm assuming here that hotkey info will be added in the final game, so I concede here as well.
Here's a few opinions from people on Discord:
https://imgur.com/vNoTlQ9
And here's the forum thread that contains a strawpoll:
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=90333#p90333
Would like to see examples.
There's no rock-solid data, it's purely an assumption based on evidence and rational thought.
Okay let me retract my previous statement about popularity and say this instead to hopefully clarify what I meant:
I feel it's a no-brainer based on the evidence at hand that if users had a simple choice between the two clients, they would choose the modded version over the native one more often than not.
Yeah I'm saving the tutorial type stuff until the end so that I don't have out-dated information that needs to be re-done later on anyway. But the current plan is to have a tutorial section separate from the single player experience where every action worth talking about will have a tutorial (a tutorial for building clothes, a tutorial for building a road, a tutorial for taking care of babies, etc). Eventually I want pregnant players to be able to see which tutorials (or completed ingame) the new player has completed to determine if they want to birth them or not.
I also want to have an indicator that shows you what item you're standing on, what item you're holding and what item you're mousing over. I also want to incorporate a onetech.info style crafting window that can be activated by mousing over an item and holding a hotkey, making it really easy to understand how each item works.
Interesting, I wouldn't have expected any support from the OHOL discord.
Awesome, thanks! I'll keep an eye on this. Although to be fair, it is a bit biased being on the OHOL forums lol. Somewhere like Reddit might have been a better place to test this.
Forager is a great example, as it's using even more basic art than ST with the exact same style. Mindustry is another example of a game with even weaker graphics using the same style. There are tons of games like this actually, and while that art style will turn off a lot of people unfortunately (similar to how 2D games will turn off people who only want 3D), it's still a great style for game art.
I don't really care all that much but maybe one day for fun, especially once I get more art in the game (right now the item count is low compared to OHOL), and then it'll be easier to compare specifics. Realistically though it comes down to preference. Some will prefer my art, some will prefer Jason's, but as far as comparing how two games will feel while playing, they're pretty much on par with each other. The gameplay will ultimately be what matters in the end.
Hoping that you replace the art personally. But otherwise as you say gameplay comes first in the end.
I'm definitely replacing the art (and maybe adding the legacy art as a cute little option) but not until after release. I'll likely go back and upgrade certain things (like adding more detail to trees for example) before launch but not a full overhaul. After release I'll hire an artist to start replacing assets.