Someone please explain this (battle stats)

[sdrevik]

Soviet tanks (upgraded) vs German near Leningrad. Neither side crossing river, same terrain.
Soviets: ST 10, supply 6 readiness 59, morale 69
German: ST 8, supply 3, readiness 24, morale 8%
If Soviets attack, they lose 1, Germans lose 0.
WTF??? Germans have 1.5 pts of experience, does experience trump every other factor? If so, the Russians have zero chance from day 1.

[Bill Runacre]

Experience will be a significant factor here, as will the defender's entrenchment level (if applicable).

In fact, if the defender has entrenchment then once the first attack(s) has/have reduced the entrenchment level to zero, the combat odds will change in your favour, all other things being equal.

So it may be that the Soviet Tanks' second attack will have better odds than the first, if the defender's entrenchment level is reduced to zero by the first.

Or attack first with airpower or artillery to reduce the defender's entrenchment, if you have suitable units nearby.

[sdrevik]

So far, the supply thing doesn't seem to match what's the manual or any semblance to history or what seems like reasonable strategy. I took EVERY Soviet unit from turn 1 (ignoring any taking of Poland) and moved them back to Leningrad, Moscow, and Stalingrad. I quickly built two engineers and had them build rings of fortresses around those three. I let every unit entrench, took advantage of where the enemy would have to cross rivers and fight from marshes. I built up Infantry Weapons 2 and upgraded everyone. Put all the fighters in for air cover. Germany invades, I try to pull back all the 'new' units (most got slaughtered on turn 1) to reinforce my three strongpoints. Every strongpoint is led by an HQ.

Here come the Germans: I'm dug in and the terrain is on my side. Winter comes. Partisans blowing up rear supply lines. And the Germans all hit with 100%+ morale and supply like they just left their warm homes in Berlin. I'm reinforcing losses every turn, but eventually they cross rivers, cross the marshes, blow the fortresses (I don't even see any artillery doing it), and take Leningrad and Moscow. I don't see any way I could have managed Soviet defenses any better. They are just unaffected by weather and terrain.

If I attack, my odds are generally 1:0 or 2:0 against me, and I forgo any opportunity to reinforce. Any chance I can get a loss on their side, I take it, otherwise I defend.

This game makes absolutely no sense to me. Germans fighting a thousand miles from home in February in northern Russia, forced to cross a river to attack a fortress should be getting *slaughtered*. But if one of MY units wants to counterattack a unentrenched unit in an open field, it tells me I'm going to lose 2 or 3 ST and kill no one. It seems like the AI is allowed to attack AND reinforce in the same turn.

Secondarily, I opened the game as Axis and found Axis MPP is roughly equal to Allied MPP with the USA fully in the war. That's insane. WIth the USA mobilized, the Allies should have 20% or greater edge in combined MPP. To generate the units required to pull of an equivalent of Torch, I can't afford to build a single strategic bomber unit. Realistically, the USA should be capable of building both and Lend/Lease.

My only saving bring spot is that I pulled out the BEF from France and all my land units in Britain and shipped them to North Africa, and and wiping the floor with the Axis there. But Spain entered the war and took Gibraltar, so my Operation Torch will have to relocate to landing in Portugal and fighting south first.

But the combat results in Russia make no sense to me whatsoever. Terrain advantage and fortifications seem worth nothing at all. So tactical decisions by the player seem utterly meaningless and have little to no impact on the results. Even Soviet units with experience get their butts kicked.

[Bill Runacre]

Hopefully some of our experienced players will have a moment to provide some advice, as the Axis advance into the USSR is certainly not unstoppable.

It might be useful to know what difficulty settings the AI is set to.

i would just like to clarify that the AI cannot attack and reinforce in the same turn. It plays by the same rules as players do, and any differences are explained here:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/593030/discussions/0/3037104113138829614/

[BigJohn]

I've also argued in the past that the experienced units are too strong but there are ways to deal with them. Once the SU have enough strength its important to destroy the experienced Axis units especially the tanks & bombers . When they are re purchased they have no experience. It will take at least 2 maybe 3 units to destroy them but IMO its worth it. When the unit re appears you are even in experience.

Attaching the most important units to HQs is vital. The game does an ok job attaching units but you need to override the AI and attach some units yourself. I no longer have the game loaded but if you right click on the HQ you can set it to AI & human attachment.

HQs: You can sack and replace HQs with higher level HQs (important). The build limit for HQs is 6 (until more research) so max out the Hqs before the Siberian units appear. That way you will have 8 (6 + 2 Siberian). Also max out heavy tank before Siberian units. Also buy three AT before the game gives you 3 that way you have six. There is a research (Command and Control) the top right one that is also important it increases the rating of the HQs and the number of units you can attach. Industrial Tech (bottom right) research is also key for the SU.

So make sure your tanks, mech inf & AT are behind infantry units and attached to top HQs for a few turns. When the high experience German tanks are in the front take them out.

Make sure the entrenched infantry units in important places like forts and key cities are attached for a few turns (if possible).

Siberian troops arrive with 1* experience so I always tried to get the armies entrenched in key locations like Moscow, Stalingrad. The 1* Siberian tanks are great for destroying Axis tanks.

I haven't played vs the AI in a long time but it used to keep the HQS too close to the front. Wiping out or significantly reducing an HQ is great, Remember if you reduce a unit it loses the experience when its taken back to full strength.

Any more questions and I'll try to help. gl

[BigJohn]

I just remembered if you play vs the AI at higher levels it may increase the Axis experience. I'd set that back to neutral at any level.. They are just too strong with high starting experience.

[sdrevik]

I'm just using the default settings for difficulty. I had all my strong prepared defenses overrun before the Siberian troops could even get into position. I'd love to find the HQs and attack them (I did in Egypt/Libya), but I can't punch through enough to even see where they are. Units are entrenched in cities, and outside of the cities engineers made a ring of forts (which have no noticeable effect). I'm wondering if the game has a configuration file to enhance the effects of weather, terrain, and fortifications. Otherwise, it's just a silly RNG slugfest with no real tactical considerations involved. I like the structure of the game and the idea, but the weightings of those considerations seems unrealistic (ahem, from all the battles I studied at West Point and on my own afterwards... yes, logistics win wars, but poor terrain / positioning loses battles, historical examples of this are too extensive to list here).

I'm curious of there is a morale modifier for fighting on home turf. Doesn't seem to be.

Another thing- the AI seems able to have infantry attack, then move, and rotate 5 units into a hex to make sustained attacks (and seeimingly, reinforce in the same turn). When my infantry attack, their turn is overwith. I understand the armor, but unless the German army in Russia is 100% mech inf, it doesn't seem like it's playing by the same set of rules.

[Bill Runacre]

Units can be swapped, and that is what you are seeing the AI doing when it launches concentrated attacks on one of your units. There is a unit morale penalty for swapping, but it does provide the possibility to concentrate force at a decisive point, and it is something you will also find useful when planning your own counter-attacks.

Unit swapping and many other useful shortcuts, can be found in the list of Hotkeys, which can be found in the Manual or via one of the buttons at the top right of the screen.

The AI is definitely not attacking and reinforcing in the same turn.


Giving specific advice can be difficult without seeing the exact situation. A good way to learn wouldl be by having a PBEM game with a more experienced player, having them play the Allies and seeing how they do it - for it can be done.

Unfortunately my own time is limited and does not enable me to offer to have a PBEM game with you, but I would be happy to look at a save file if you want to send me one to [e-mail]

[BigJohn]

Again, attaching the right units to HQs is a key to the game. Are you attaching units or letting the AI do it?

Morale is also very important. For example if you reinforce a unit its basically useless the next couple of turns.

There is a country morale which is based on various events. When the national morale gets below certain thresholds overall performance declines. there is no benefit for fighting in your own land.

In my experience the game doesn't follow exact history . I've probably played 4000 hours (I'm retired) as the Allies in PBEM. A competent Axis opponent would always take Leningrad and Moscow. Then the real game started because the SU started to catch up in troops / research and the map gets harder for the Axis. I won scores of games as Allies after losing Leningrad & Moscow.

IMO you won't learn a real lot in PBEM because the other players are just too much better. Start vs the AI on a low level and read the manual (that's a do as I say not as I do thing).

its fun once you get up to speed . The game appears very easy but its actually quite complex to master.

gl

[sdrevik]

Thanks, all. Yeah, the game appears to be its own little beast with its own ins and outs. Heavy focus on experience, morale, etc, and minimal consideration of terrain and static defenses. I was hoping for something where the map / terrain was of at least equal weight to the 'management' components and not just decoration. Just disappointed. Otherwise it's the perfect scale of game I was looking for.

[BigJohn]

There are considerations for terrain etc but its more of a Grand Strategic game than Tactical. Gary Grigsbys War in the East 2 is a great tactical game. It goes on sale from time to time. A little intense for me.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1775550/Gary_Grigsbys_War_in_the_East_2/

[Deez_Noots]

was the terrain marsh? because I'm pretty sure marsh gives some very good defense bonus against tanks and Leningrad has lots of marsh in it, the terrain of the attacking unit doesn't matter at all in the calculations.

in the future I recommend you put most if not all you tanks in the south and centre where the terrain is more open as tanks can really struggle with the forests and marshes of northern Russia

[Leistungsumfang]

Originally posted by sdrevik:

Thanks, all. Yeah, the game appears to be its own little beast with its own ins and outs. Heavy focus on experience, morale, etc, and minimal consideration of terrain and static defenses. I was hoping for something where the map / terrain was of at least equal weight to the 'management' components and not just decoration. Just disappointed. Otherwise it's the perfect scale of game I was looking for.

Terrain does make a huge difference. A well entrenched and HQ attached army in a wood tile will not be that easy to beat If it is "the right" wood tile, it will suck up a lot of damage because its zone of control blocks too much. Part of the defensive game is forcing the enemy to attack unfavorable things.
Also I would highly recommend skipping Russian airforce altogether. Sell the research chit. Disband the early fighters.
Russian Airforce in 1941 will bleed yourself dry. They do lose a lot more than the Germans while basically achieving nothing. Instead: Research AA to lvl2 asap, upgrade your troops with that and buy AA guns. This is A LOT more cost efficient
Do not sell the Siberian planes and any bombers you get your hands on. Set the fighters on escort only (never intercept). And then initiate your major counterattacks with a nice demoralizing and detrenching medium bomber. The lvl0 fighter will get mauled (but is cheap to repair) the bomber will take minor damage and do its job.

Also, there are several playthroughs on Expert on youtube. You might search for those.