The problem is muskets, not rifles

[Burlapsackgu]

Thread after thread focuses on rifles and to an extent may be correct. There is a severe difference between rifles and musket. Which, to be granted, did exist in real life. However, muskets are not nearly this inaccurate and I am tired of seeing games and other media portray them as these terribly inaccurate things that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from the inside.

A brown bess can hit a plate sized target fairly easily out to around 60 yards. This is not mirrored in the game AT ALL. Even for extremely close shots, often as close as 20 yards sometimes less, the musket will miss a large number of times despite being dead on.

I feel like buffing the musket to be fairly accurate out to its historical range of about 60 yards would help balance and enjoyment to large extent.

I noticed how huge of a difference there was after getting an ssd and finally being able to play rifleman.

At the moment:
1) Rifles have more realistic accuracy and far far outperform muskets.
2) Muskets do not have realistic accuracy and this just compounds the gap between the two.

That said, the game is extremely fun despite the current issues and I'm looking forward to future content and playing more.

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

i agree but i've also been down this route -- fans of this game seem to GREATLY prefer "immersion" over balance to the point of absurdity...the general consensus seems to be that they want everything nerfed even further so they don't die as much while they roleplay being in a shooting line or whatever.

there also seems to be extreme netcode/hitbox issues that are causing tons of misses too (really noticable in indoor fights...) so it's hard to say how much is caused by random spread or just the hitboxes not syncing to the models properly

[wonka]

Tell you what, lets make the musket as accurate as many of you "poor shot's" obviously want it to be. But before that's done, let's add tons MORE smoke. Let's totally obscure any movement from the enemy. Obscuring any visible targets from within the "broadside of the barn". Maybe also add a fatigue meter or other factor(s) on the field of battle, that would hinder an accurate shot. For every action, there should be an equal and opposite reaction. Oh but that would be too historically accurate, removing the fun-factor of the game. My point? It's a game. I enjoy it immensely! Adding "accurate" aspects that you may want, could be a deal breaker for many or the majority.

[Burlapsackgu]

So you would rather have muskets have a 50 50 chance at 20 meters? Then ok remove rifles if this is a deal breaker for you. People like you that just shout “it’s a game” anytime anyone points a flaw out are getting old

[wonka]

50/50 chance at 22 yards? I'd say it could do a little tweak in the shooters favor. But certainly not 100% as you seem to be leaning toward. But to my original thought. Would you also like to include tons of smoke? A fatigue meter? I'd be more than happy to see the accuracy you are shouting about, if those other elements are included. How about you? I've never said anything about rifles being flawed. Keep them as they are. At some point, Developers need to find a happy medium to appease "poor shots" like you and keep it fun for people who realize it's a game and meant to be fun. Have a great day.

[Burlapsackgu]

Originally posted by WOnka:

50/50 chance at 22 yards? I'd say it could do a little tweak in the shooters favor. But certainly not 100% as you seem to be leaning toward. But to my original thought. Would you also like to include tons of smoke? A fatigue meter? I'd be more than happy to see the accuracy you are shouting about, if those other elements are included. How about you? I've never said anything about rifles being flawed. Keep them as they are. At some point, Developers need to find a happy medium to appease "poor shots" like you and keep it fun for people who realize it's a game and meant to be fun. Have a great day.

You said muskets are fine as is as being incredibly historically inaccurate so I just assumed you'd not be a hypocrite and also say that rifles need to be at a similarly reduced level. "Poor shots" so it's my fault rng is so ridiculous? When I play as a rifleman I usually score every hit at I shoot at up to 80m and even for moving shots. Not so at all with muskets even at ridiculously low ranges.

Sounds more like you're the one being catered to so you don't get hit so much and cry about it. Why can't you just "have fun" since it's just a game if it were more historically accurate? If you're going to use such a terrible argument it also goes both ways

[wonka]

?? Yeah, you clearly aren't comprehending what I've written. I have not the time nor desire to explain further. Just a quick tip though, Aim small, miss small. Have a great day!

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

you see, aim small miss small, is the thing. those are words that make sense in that order

[Burlapsackgu]

You clearly aren’t comprehending your own hypocrisy but whatever.

[Bozemoto]

Musket balls curve outward the further away you get. Think this would be good to add to the game as it would increase accuracy at closer range and reduce it at greater ranges. And it's easy to program it too, you just separate the shot vector and the RNG into a vector and then apply it with an accelerated scalar as you plot out the ray casts. Simples.

[=SWF= Spartan0536]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xu4QQnUJRI

This is a replica Brown Bess circa 1771, he is using full military powder loads as well.

The muskets are WAY TOO INACCURATE.

[Tyso3]

For fks sake guys, The whole reason this game and genre works is BECAUSE the guns are inaccurate.

If this game was like most online shooters, it would be a crap game (far better 'balanced' games out there)

This fills a niche and does it really well. If you more accurarcy go play arma.

[Burlapsackgu]

Originally posted by Tyso3:

For fks sake guys, The whole reason this game and genre works is BECAUSE the guns are inaccurate.

If this game was like most online shooters, it would be a crap game (far better 'balanced' games out there)

This fills a niche and does it really well. If you more accurarcy go play arma.

I could say the same to you. If you want an Arcady extremely unrealistic game go play cod. I don’t mind if the muskets aren’t as accurate as real life but you should still not have such terrible dispersion at extremely close ranges

[1984]

The game doesnt work because bayonets have the same range as a musket.

[>-FISH-D]

I posted this in another thread about musket RNG but will post here as well:


"One idea that would perhaps create a more immersive experience though is implementing a deviation cone which decreases in diameter. The idea is to slowly decrease the diameter of the deviation cone when you remain stationary while in ADS. Thus with a little extra patience your shot becomes more accurate as it would in reality when taking your time to settle the rifle, aim, exhale, then squeeze the trigger. The BF2 mod 'Project Reality' featured a deviation cone that worked in this exact same manner.

If I was a Holdfast dev I would test having the size of the cone slowly decrease 25% of its total diameter when the player remains in ADS with no 'WASD movement'. 3 seconds for the full 25% reduction would work great for starters. Of course the deviation cone would reset back to its default size after each shot taken. With this method a player would then have an interesting choice. The quicker 'pot shot' with less accuracy or the more drawn out accurate shot."



Of course the cone could shrink 50% instead of 25% it's up for grabs. I just thought this might give a dev an idea for better gunplay.