Holdfast: Nations At War

Holdfast: Nations At War

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Q Mar 10, 2021 @ 6:44am
Cav Sword Reach
What is the sword reach in this ? on public a single cav guy has 70 kills 6 deaths, the reach is beyond insane, i heard the sword hitting a tree behind me and it still killed me.

Just putting it out there needs changed a little i think
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Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
Efour Mar 13, 2021 @ 5:07pm 
Either he is very good or you play with morons.

Its actually not super easy to do well. Thats basically spawn camping numbers.
Bitcoin Baron Mar 18, 2021 @ 4:59am 
The main problem with cav is twofold in my experience:

- A reasonably experienced cav player can dominate the battlefield single-handedly in a way no other class can do so, as a single unit. It doesn't feel like the class is properly tuned.
- Most players do not seem to hear, or care, when they hear cavalry hoof-steps and just charge on without even looking around.

I think overall cav is mostly balanced but yes the sword reach is pretty insane sometimes. I hid behind a tree once and the cav came at me and swung the sword, and it HIT the tree, and the sound and smoke came from the tree, yet I also still died.

When a cav swings their sword, the problem isn't it's reach. It's that a very spatially and temporally generous deathbox surrounds them.

Of course, there is also the problem of the horse itself being a tank that takes at LEAST two bullets to kill, often three. I feel like in some way if the horse takes a bullet, then either the horse rears up and the rider is thrown off, or the horse should become wild and uncontrollable for some time. You can train a horse to move swiftly and jump stuff, you can't train it to know how to just casually shrug off being hit with a bullet, so it should really go a bit wild for a time.

I would luck me Mar 20, 2021 @ 5:33am 
Nah, it's bs at times. Even the tailend of the swing with little connection will kill you. Blades are sharp, but I doubt you can kill someone by the air of your blade.
MiSFiT77 Mar 20, 2021 @ 12:47pm 
Thats pretty much what I've been moaning about for ages. RNG simulates/compensates for inaccuracy and unpredictability of the musket. Nothing simulates/compensates or impersonates the skittishness or unpredictable behaviour of a horse. So every horse by default is a tank that is hard to kill. I don't care how big a horse is, a bullet in one of it's vital organs or main cables will kill it. Yet every round the horse sustains in game is minor and has little effect on the horses behaviour.
Last edited by MiSFiT77; Mar 20, 2021 @ 12:48pm
gwTheo Mar 21, 2021 @ 5:42pm 
Originally posted by MiSFiT77:
Thats pretty much what I've been moaning about for ages. RNG simulates/compensates for inaccuracy and unpredictability of the musket. Nothing simulates/compensates or impersonates the skittishness or unpredictable behaviour of a horse. So every horse by default is a tank that is hard to kill. I don't care how big a horse is, a bullet in one of it's vital organs or main cables will kill it. Yet every round the horse sustains in game is minor and has little effect on the horses behaviour.
Are you implying it should be a one shot kill? Maybe the fact that the muskets are inaccurate you probably wouldn't hit a vital organ or do anything detrimental til after 2 - 3 shots. horses do weigh up to 2000 pounds depending on bread... however the swords are broken
Autumn Mar 21, 2021 @ 8:04pm 
Honestly, I think cav swords just feel overpowered because all other melee sucks. Melee never connects with anything, and it makes it the least fun part of the game. Instead of deleting that from cav, it needs to be added to everything else.
MiSFiT77 Mar 22, 2021 @ 4:10pm 
Originally posted by Grey:
Originally posted by MiSFiT77:
Thats pretty much what I've been moaning about for ages. RNG simulates/compensates for inaccuracy and unpredictability of the musket. Nothing simulates/compensates or impersonates the skittishness or unpredictable behaviour of a horse. So every horse by default is a tank that is hard to kill. I don't care how big a horse is, a bullet in one of it's vital organs or main cables will kill it. Yet every round the horse sustains in game is minor and has little effect on the horses behaviour.
Are you implying it should be a one shot kill? Maybe the fact that the muskets are inaccurate you probably wouldn't hit a vital organ or do anything detrimental til after 2 - 3 shots. horses do weigh up to 2000 pounds depending on bread... however the swords are broken


No I'm implying that the shots at the horse are random and every one is counted as non fatal. Yet by sheer dumb luck many shots (that hit) would do more damage. I don't think one shot would be a fair solution since that would be assuming the opposite ie that every shot is fatal. So 2 would be a compromise or a lot of programming on random stuff like fatal shots, horses bolting, horses throwing the rider etc. Lets face it none of that's going to happen. So reducing Horse HP to 2 and fixing the 20ft sword would be all thats needed imo.
MiSFiT77 Mar 22, 2021 @ 4:21pm 
Originally posted by Toast:
Honestly, I think cav swords just feel overpowered because all other melee sucks. Melee never connects with anything, and it makes it the least fun part of the game. Instead of deleting that from cav, it needs to be added to everything else.

Cav swords pass through the horse from the right and kill the person standing on the left. They hit trees, throw debris off of the tree, make a dink sound as they hit the tree and still kill the guy standing by the tree. I've had the misfortune of being hit with a machete in rl (it was an accident) It glanced off of a tree and hit me in the shin and did virtually no damage. I have a small scar about 2cm on my shin. But by the laws of Holdfast I'd be dead. It takes quite a bit of force to hack through a person and that force is lost if the blade hits a tree first. Also blocking the sword is weird and unpredictable. Yes it's true most ppl don't use the tilde key and look around themselves while running in the open (they really should) and cav are fairly easy to shoot out of the saddle if you let them get close enough. But that doesn't mean they don't need a tweak.
Bitcoin Baron Mar 23, 2021 @ 8:05am 
Yeah just yesterday a cav came swinging his sword at me, but he mis timed it and the swing had swished past me over to the other side by the time they got up besides me. Despite this, i still died (also he should have beheaded his own horse too). Needs fixing.

Soldier melee requires expert timing, direction and control. Cav, you just click melee button and anything near you dies from the start to the end of the animation.
Last edited by Bitcoin Baron; Mar 23, 2021 @ 8:07am
Autumn Mar 23, 2021 @ 12:03pm 
Originally posted by ₿itcoin ₿aron:
Yeah just yesterday a cav came swinging his sword at me, but he mis timed it and the swing had swished past me over to the other side by the time they got up besides me. Despite this, i still died (also he should have beheaded his own horse too). Needs fixing.

Soldier melee requires expert timing, direction and control. Cav, you just click melee button and anything near you dies from the start to the end of the animation.

It hasn't been like that for ages, though. Cav honestly kind of sucks now unless you're actually pretty good at it.
Q Mar 23, 2021 @ 12:12pm 
Appreciate your comments, I made the post mainly for those playing public, i personally feel the death box on cav is just a little bit too much.

Needs an adjustment even if ever so slightly, they will most likely always keep dominating public battles but thing is, right now their way too ridiculous.
Autumn Mar 23, 2021 @ 12:23pm 
Originally posted by 63e Qvr:
Appreciate your comments, I made the post mainly for those playing public, i personally feel the death box on cav is just a little bit too much.

Needs an adjustment even if ever so slightly, they will most likely always keep dominating public battles but thing is, right now their way too ridiculous.

My experience is from the same. There's a few good cav maps, but that's true of every class. I've seen a cannoneer go 120-0 on Fort Cristiana, not because mortars are OP but because the map favors mortars and he knows how to exploit that. Cav has the same thing, where it's really good on a lot of open maps but mediocre on others.

Granted, I also main line infantry because I'm ♥♥♥♥ at cav. I can barely pull 6 kills with that many deaths on horseback, so most of this is just from watching cav while standing in a line.
DroneSwarm Mar 24, 2021 @ 3:57am 
I hate cav. They are way overpowered imo, to the point of being game breaking on some maps.
MiSFiT77 Mar 24, 2021 @ 5:02am 
Part of the problem is people not looking out for them. I played a map a while back where two very good cav (Martell and another) were absolutely dominating the map. This stopped when people started supporting each other and actually teaming up against the cav. If everyone is just running out of the spawn without a thought for what is going on around them, then good cav players are going to clean up. So the issue isn't as simple as "cav are op". It's a team game. However I do also believe that there are a few things still wrong with Cav.
If you look at muskets. There have been numerous threads about musket inaccuracy supported by youtube vids of beardy historians firing muskets under lab conditions. Trying to prove that muskets were more accurate in rl. But from a game play pov I think muskets are about right. On balance. There would also have been misfires, wet powder and even cold fingers. So if you look at rng as balancing the muskets overall performance it feels kinda right to me.
As I've said earlier the Horse is just a tank. It's strong HP doesn't seem to compensate for any horse behaviours. And is set from the pov that all wounds are non fatal.
The sword is clearly needing some work.
Cav are (I believe) as accurate with a fire arm while on horseback moving at speed as they are standing or kneeling. That can't be right.
And finally cav get stuck to trees and can climb over rocks.
My opinion is cav need some nerfing (fixing), but not nerfing down to the point where they are not a danger. They should be a danger. And it should still ultimately be down to Infantry to work together and look around them to fully combat them.
Last edited by MiSFiT77; Mar 24, 2021 @ 5:05am
After playing cav for a while just as Misfit77 said. It's not cav being op but if both teams are compotent. Cavalry is already broken enough with how terrible their horses are especially with stun. Most kills I've gotten with it are 56 or 57 I believe because the whole enemy team except one person never looked around, missed their shots and were simply just terrible.

But I've also had rounds where the enemy team was strong. Always looking around, listening, good melee, and very good shots.

If you think cavalry is still op here's some facts about it. Running people over stops horse, any damage done instantly stops it and makes it writhe around for 2-3 seconds. The horse has no head hitbox, the horse's hitbox it self a bit large. Rider hitbox clips into and even through the horse's neck. Most objects stop horses, and sometimes they even just get it stuck and go vertical especially fences and rocks.
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Date Posted: Mar 10, 2021 @ 6:44am
Posts: 16